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Uncharted Territory
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Re: My ideas on balance.

Jan 13, 2013
Hey Pride!? WHAT NOW?!?!

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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 11/29/2012
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Re: My ideas on balance.

Jan 13, 2013
You there Pride? Hey Pride? did you see Just-Tank's Post on this thread Pride? Pride i'm talking to you...Pride?...*Slaps his face* WAKE UP PRIDE?!...LOL...Fail troll has been destroyed goldHawk.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: My ideas on balance.

Jan 14, 2013

Just--Tank wrote:

This is a great thread, acknowledged. PLEASE continue!

 

-Tank


Well thought out ideas for sure, and no offense to goldhawk or anyone else posting feedback/idea threads, but I hope SSM isn't hanging on every word here Tank. I have faith in the internal design team at SSM to come up with better solutions. Every other post on the forum is from the same couple of clan mates bumping each others feedback/idea threads. I hope you aren't taking a couple peoples feedback as "the majorities feedback", which is how its starting to look after seeing the Critical Feedback list you posted in the "Capture The Flag Feedback" thread a few days ago. I disagree with a few issues on your list, and I disagree with more than half of the negative feedback and idea threads I see posted on these forums. 

 

You won't see people posting positive feedback threads because it's easier for people to point out everything they think is wrong instead.  But don't take the silence as "everyone agrees with this one players subjective feedback". I would take the silence as people enjoying the game and not having any negative feedback to offer.

 

If its necessary though, I will start posting tons of threads on everything I think SSM got right and everything that doesn't need to be change so that people can reply with "I agree", "me too", and "I agree also".

 

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Splicer
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Re: My ideas on balance.

Jan 14, 2013

@ I_Ceases_I:

 

I concur. To a point.

 

My question is, who is this MP game for? Everyone who loves GOW, or a tight, small-but-dedicated community of deeply invested players?

 

Ideally, it's both. But that's a fine line to tread.

 

Most of the board regulars seem to be very dedicated MP gamers. They are theorycrafting. I respect the process, and recognize it can benefit the game in the long-run, but my knee-jerk reaction to a lot of suggestions here is that they're designed to narrow the focus and appeal to theorycrafters, to MP afficiandos, to a small, niche portion of the GOW fanbase that didn't exist.

 

But that's not my bag. I don't even know how to I-frame. Coming here I feel like I wandered into some sort of cult and my pamphlet is missing the glossary. I'm just a GOW fan, an SP purist -- until I got in the beta and started having a hell of a lot of fun.

 

The implication is I, and any like me, aren't invited to this party - that ultimately, it's not for me, not in the long run.

 

But! I am not digging deep like these guys, so I can believe there are issues I have no idea about. I started out with Zeus and have barely played Ares, so Goldhawke might be exactly right about everything (and definitely right about the kill animation ideas -- stellar!). I don't know. I just know that as it stands, I'm having a good time.

 

So I hope the devs can strike a balance between what makes sense for the deep divers and what makes sense to me, an MP disdainer-turned-fan, who just wants to jump in an have fun.

 

One thing I definitely want to speak up about: World Weapons.

 

I think the spawn timers are perfect as is, and I think their inclusion is a smart solution to skill/experience/match imbalance. Everyone should run to them and then away from whoever got them. It keeps the game lively and players on their toes. A game like this needs tide-turners to keep feeling fresh, and for folks in matches to stay engaged even if they've been rolled half a dozen times in a row.

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: My ideas on balance.

Jan 14, 2013

I_Ceases_I wrote:

Just--Tank wrote:

This is a great thread, acknowledged. PLEASE continue!

 

-Tank


Well thought out ideas for sure, and no offense to goldhawk or anyone else posting feedback/idea threads, but I hope SSM isn't hanging on every word here Tank. I have faith in the internal design team at SSM to come up with better solutions. Every other post on the forum is from the same couple of clan mates bumping each others feedback/idea threads. I hope you aren't taking a couple peoples feedback as "the majorities feedback", which is how its starting to look after seeing the Critical Feedback list you posted in the "Capture The Flag Feedback" thread a few days ago. I disagree with a few issues on your list, and I disagree with more than half of the negative feedback and idea threads I see posted on these forums. 

 

You won't see people posting positive feedback threads because it's easier for people to point out everything they think is wrong instead.  But don't take the silence as "everyone agrees with this one players subjective feedback". I would take the silence as people enjoying the game and not having any negative feedback to offer.

 

If its necessary though, I will start posting tons of threads on everything I think SSM got right and everything that doesn't need to be change so that people can reply with "I agree", "me too", and "I agree also".

 


Well if you disagree, post something.  It doesn't help when people disagree and they're like "nah I won't post" because then SSM will see it and say "hey, not many people disagree and they have a lot of kudos so the community must be ok with it"

 

I don't expect them to take every idea I've ever stated (or anyone else for that matter) and implement it word for word but as long as it gets recognized and has any form of possibility of being in the game whether it's the whole thing, a fraction or the idea revamped into something better.  

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: My ideas on balance.

Jan 14, 2013
edited the OP with more things I think needs to be looked into.
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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: My ideas on balance.

Jan 14, 2013

pipking01 wrote:

@ I_Ceases_I:

 

I concur. To a point.

 

My question is, who is this MP game for? Everyone who loves GOW, or a tight, small-but-dedicated community of deeply invested players?

 

Ideally, it's both. But that's a fine line to tread.

 

Most of the board regulars seem to be very dedicated MP gamers. They are theorycrafting. I respect the process, and recognize it can benefit the game in the long-run, but my knee-jerk reaction to a lot of suggestions here is that they're designed to narrow the focus and appeal to theorycrafters, to MP afficiandos, to a small, niche portion of the GOW fanbase that didn't exist.

 

But that's not my bag. I don't even know how to I-frame. Coming here I feel like I wandered into some sort of cult and my pamphlet is missing the glossary. I'm just a GOW fan, an SP purist -- until I got in the beta and started having a hell of a lot of fun.

 

The implication is I, and any like me, aren't invited to this party - that ultimately, it's not for me, not in the long run.

 

But! I am not digging deep like these guys, so I can believe there are issues I have no idea about. I started out with Zeus and have barely played Ares, so Goldhawke might be exactly right about everything (and definitely right about the kill animation ideas -- stellar!). I don't know. I just know that as it stands, I'm having a good time.

 

So I hope the devs can strike a balance between what makes sense for the deep divers and what makes sense to me, an MP disdainer-turned-fan, who just wants to jump in an have fun.

 

One thing I definitely want to speak up about: World Weapons.

 

I think the spawn timers are perfect as is, and I think their inclusion is a smart solution to skill/experience/match imbalance. Everyone should run to them and then away from whoever got them. It keeps the game lively and players on their toes. A game like this needs tide-turners to keep feeling fresh, and for folks in matches to stay engaged even if they've been rolled half a dozen times in a row.


ideally, a multiplayer is geared towards casuals and hardcore players alike.  It's necessary to find that sweet spot that pleases both.  Hardcore gamers are what keep the game alive and support it the most.  There are more casuals, but casuals are likely to come and go with ease.  Without either, the game is doomed.  

 

That being said, I've been a part of a LOT of multiplayers.  The only issue I see here with balancing is how is this game supposed to be played?  Like a fighting game?  RPG?  It has a lot of RPG elements, so one would assume that we need to look at it as such.  That's the way I look at it anyway, fighting game with RPG elements.  But the big question here is, is Zeus OP or is Ares UP?  (over powered vs under powered)  because Zeus could very well be balanced towards other characters such as Hades and Poseidon, and Ares could be Under powered and need something to give his class kick.  Or does Ares stack up better against Hades and poseidon?  Zeus could easily just have too many perks but then again it would still leave Ares kind of plain.  

 

The idea isn't to generate or kill fun, it's to produce a sense of "balance" you don't want everyone running around as the same character with the same armor and weapons that would make the game boring and no one would want to play.  Essentially, if things are nerfed or buffed at a hardcore level, usually casuals will either not experience anything or end up enjoying the changes as well unless they're the ones trying to learn how to spam exploits.  

 

Tinkering with the Zeus class probably won't take much to balance out, but he'll essentially play the same way, but with not so many advantages in combat...or at the very least all of his advantages won't be as influential as they are now. 

 

It's hard for me to talk about games at a casual level because I've never been a casual but I imagine it's like hardcore gaming except you don't care as much and are just in it and don't care how many times you die or how you kill an opponent.  

 

World weapons should be changed, because they follow the "power weapons" rule that most other MPs have.  As you've said you don't participate in MPs apparently, but power weapons should never be insanely easy to get as they are now.  It's not so much of a problem in team favor, but in capture the flag EVERYONE has one.

 

It's like playing a game of Uncharted, call of duty, halo, or gears and everyone gets super easy access to a rocket launcher or grenade launcher.  Could you imagine, if you're playing a shooter and people are getting power weapons as often as they are now?  It'd be one hell of a mess.  In this game, I feel that fights should be just that...fights.  But as of now to win a "fight" you're just manipulating the system as much as possible.  It's not your typical "fight" it's taking advantage of certain features in order to get the easiest kill, and world weapons only hinder the real brutality I feel this MP should have.  Most times, I just want to fight someone..have a good brawl and get a kill but when you add things like world weapons to the mix it goes from being a fight to a cat and mouse scenario.  

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: My ideas on balance.

Jan 14, 2013
This sword juggling has to go. It's killing this game. If the hammer allows people to recover, the sword should as well. I shouldn't have to rely on items just to simply regain my footing and put up a fight.
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Splicer
Registered: 01/19/2011
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Re: My ideas on balance.

Jan 14, 2013

@ Goldhawk1:

 

I respect your position about balance, and the desire to keep competitive play grounded, free of exploits -- but I don't agree on World Weapons. I think their function as-is gives this mode a flavour that distinguishes it and compliments engagement.

 

I'd count myself as a core gamer -- I'm invested, informed and engaged in games. I even beat Demon's Souls. But core in SP only -- MP has never really been my thing. I can count on one hand 'traditional' MP modes I've fallen in love with: WoW's Battlegrounds (though I've been clean for six months), League of Legends (haven't played for over a year), and most of all Smash Bros. (I did play the new Kid Icarus MP for about a month, because Sakurai).

 

Right now, GOW:A MP is very close to my shortlist. Hard to say since what we have is limited. But of all the MP I've loved, GOW:A to me comes closest to the feel of Smash Bros., and I'd argue Smash Bros. is a high watermark for the balance between accessibility and skill-rewarding depth. And World Weapons are a big part of replicating that feel, where fortunes can turn on a dime -- and play is as much about thinking as it is execution.

 

I definitely understand why you prefer 'honest' combat, but I wouldn't put World Weapons on the same level of exploit as jump spamming or an imbalanced implimentation of the RPG stuff. I don't think they're unfair with the current spawn-rate, just as I don't think traps or wall-spikes or Polyphemus or refill fountains or kicking off the edge of the world take away from the play -- just the opposite.

 

This isn't, in my estimation, a fighting game with RPG elements -- it's a PvEvP game. I wouldn't put how it treats 'power weapons' up against how any other game treats them, because it is endeavoring to be it's own thing. The world isn't just a stage, it's a moving part, a weapon in itself. That's entirely the draw, for me, and I think the balance of those elements is near-perfect as-is.

 

In short (too late), I don't see it as unfair that World Weapons are powerful and frequent -- that's just a part of the game.

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 12/22/2012
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Re: My ideas on balance.

Jan 14, 2013

Yea i like both sides of the discussion Smiley Surprised

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