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Apr 29 2013
By: Alghazanth Sackboy 396 posts
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What makes a good player Great? (Whats wrong with this game in my mind)

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108 replies 893 views Edited Apr 29, 2013

Do you think that you are a good player? Have 10+ kills with less than 2 deaths every game? Ever face an opponent who makes you look like your previous games were just a warmup against "him/her" and even then you end up being the guy with 10 deaths?

It makes you think... What the hell happened? I was just dominating every game before this guy/gal showed up!

Well i have thought about this many times, and when it has happened to me, i started to analyze what the other player was doing. I remember in the beta when (i think it was Sousou_17 or Cuorerosso) <-- started to use the world weapon spear jump throw to absolutely annihilate everybody (including me) with it. So naturally, i started doing the same, because i want to win, too! And so, i too got easy 15-20 kills in Hercules Forum with under 3 deaths.

Now, beta is over and we got the full game, so what are players doing now that resembles that ridiculously overpowered spear throw spam? Here are my thoughts.

1. Jumping, jumping and jumping... I already mentioned the "jump spear throw" so no surprise this is here. Facing a Sword user that jumps ALL THE TIME and spams Triangle in the air (JumpCut) is a nightmare. How to counter this? Block or parry? Well good luck with that, you miss the parry once and get ready for a bouncy ride (get it?) and possibly your death after they combo you. 

The problem here is that parry leaves you vulnerable and when they start hitting you, you bounce, and they can easily do a SquareSquare + JumpCut+Grapple against you and go on from there hitting Square some more. If you do NOT parry or block the JumpCut, you get into an even more damaging ride of bounces and grapples. You can dodge, but you risk getting grappled.

The problem is, that when a player is jumping all around you and you are not sure if they are gonna do a JumpCut or not, you tend to parry anyway because you do not know what else to do, and if you happen to fail, you end up as a SMURF and get hit with a counter and probably die all the same. And with parry being unresponsive and often delayed, this leads to even more unwanted parries and deaths. 

The second problems is that when they jump, they hold block so hitting them in the air is impossible. This makes for a seriously frustrating and cheap way to "fight" and a really annoying thing to counter.

To sum it up, Jumping all around with a sword, pretty much gives the other player a message that this guy is a serious JumpCut spammer, and if he is any "good" in the game, he probably knows when to fake the JumpCut and when to not. Also, expect some L1 moves to break the pattern and mess with your head some more.

2. "Infinite" combos, kill combos etc... These combos utilize game mechanics in such a way, that you cannot escape the enemy players attacks and are you vulnerable to damage the whole time, you do NOT turn into Michael Jackson (invulnerable) and you cannot dodge or block. You can do JumpCut+SquareSquare+JumpCut+Grapple+Square... BUT you cannot do SquareSquare+Hold Triangle and get a launcher, the enemy turns white, sound logical to you? Me neither.

These things should not exist in this game, atleast not in the way they are done right now. This relates to the previous issue of jumping, and if done right, these things combined make a game breaking combo OR atleast a fun killing combo for the other player. 

There are various different variations to these depending on the weapon you are using, but many work simply by using a Sword but works great with Minotaur Hammer (and maybe others) and some Spears too (Destiny). Sword of Hades, Blade of Poseidon and Blade of Ares are devastating and an especially annoying Sword (from beta times) is the Blade Of Athena.

The problem is.. bouncing! Why must the player act like a rubber ball against attacks and bounce from the ground when hit? I do not have the answer, and the only thing i can say when this happens is "VOI VITTU SAATANA MITÄ VITTUA TAPAHTUU, NYT LOPPU SE VITUN POMPPIMINEN!!" or in english "Oh BLEEP BLEEP what the BLEEP is happening, stop the BLEEPING bouncing!!".

Only escape is your item which is of little comfort against a "good" or "Great" player (unless your item is a "bubble" or something that affects other players like Call to Arms etc.), because when you recover from your item use, the enemy can attack you before you have any chance to recover from your brief invulnerability, a well times heavy attack (or JumpCut!!!) can hit you the moment you get back to your feet, which in turn leads to (you guessed it) comboing and death.

Conclusion.

I am sad that game has gone to this, a bunch of apes jumping around each other trying to get the first hit in. Is this the "competitive elite" of this game? Is this what "Great" players do? If it is, i do not want to be "Great", in fact, i do not want anything to do with the "Great" players in this game. I would rather play a game of catch with a monkey where you throw dried turd at each other to tag one another.

What i just wrote is in my mind everything that is wrong with this game (not even including bugs/lag/glitches etc. enough threads about those things).

You guys at Sony Santa Monica need to take a real good look at this game and actually apply some of the GOOD suggestions made into this game. 
-Fix the parry, add a stamina system to the mechanics and combat (reduce jumping, dodging, running etc.), fix the grappling and make it actually work (on things YOU say in the strategy guide), remove the excessive bouncing!!!, remove the stupid invincibility frames. Also, stop making changes without releasing THOROUGH patch notes!

I think i am done. What are your thoughts?

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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 12/15/2012
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Re: What makes a good player Great?

Apr 29, 2013

Well said, that's why I don't use swords, so I don't get impulsive jump slicing syndrome. I use lances and the only time I jump is to do /\ special (it's faster) or jump+O when when a dodge spammer is making me angry. Dodging is broken period, invulnerability frames during the dodge should not exist,  IMO dodging should be to avoid vertical attacks (like heavy attacks) if dodging sideways and back to avoid magic and some horizontal attacks, this would force people to learn how to block and parry horizontal attacks, as it is now, once you learn the I-Frames timing, you can simply dodge forward instead and hit behind the guy.

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Sackboy
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Re: What makes a good player Great?

Apr 29, 2013
Jump slice shouldn't juggle! No other weapon class can juggle without a special or parry yet a sword can... Real balanced ssm. I feel like the only "good" people I face (with a few exceptions) are jump slicers that then turn them into in escapeable combos.
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Fender Bender
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Re: What makes a good player Great?

Apr 29, 2013

i know u don't like me but im gonna comment anyway  in my opinion they should change the parry back to like it was on the beta that way jump slicers would get punished all the time on the beta i also used this move but not as much cause the parry was awesome really i spammed the parry more  then the jump slice i know i use the move myself i know u saw only one match of me and u labeled me a jump spammer i'm cool with that but seriously if u play against another player who uses it to u almost have no choice but to do it yourself cause when they fake the move and u parry ur vulnerable and well ur dead then, i also agree with about the bouncing u couldn't to this constantly on the beta now u just have to look at a player and they start bouncing, sorry for the wall of text ...




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Last Guardian
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Re: What makes a good player Great?

Apr 29, 2013

I stopped using swords because it is waaayy to tempting to jump slice spam and throw in fakk slices to lure a parry....then do a kill combo and win. Such combos are also why I dont use the OP bull **bleep** that is called the Spear of Destiny. That thing has a 90% combo just with its 2 specials....which are near impossible to avoid if the user knows how to handle spears.

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Sackboy
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Re: What makes a good player Great?

Apr 29, 2013
Dodging is so inconsistent in this game. Sometimes I can dodge in some situations and sometimes I can't.
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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 04/18/2013
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Re: What makes a good player Great?

Apr 29, 2013

I do agree, I would have liked to see triangle be a heavy similar to the hammer. Who knows, might make the "Pros" Suck 

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Sackboy
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Re: What makes a good player Great?

Apr 29, 2013
Jump Triangle = Delayed heavy attack / VOTE.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: What makes a good player Great?

[ Edited ]
Apr 29, 2013

Hawk_of_Rawk wrote:
Jump slice shouldn't juggle! No other weapon class can juggle without a special or parry yet a sword can... Real balanced ssm. I feel like the only "good" people I face (with a few exceptions) are jump slicers that then turn them into in escapeable combos.

Spear can juggle with jump /\, it's just VERY hard to hit with it, yesterday I did a very easy combo doable on all spears/lances, hold /\(launcher), jump /\ when falling (requires strict timing, I guess 2 seconds before enemy touches ground?) [] [] grapple, if you have a fast special like say......Spear of Ares, that's a good combo. Jump /\ special requires timing thus it's not as OP as jump slice.

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Last Guardian
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Re: What makes a good player Great?

Apr 29, 2013

^I must admit...there person I listed as the best player I know...(delsol) struggles with anything except a sword.....he went 15-0 with his champion sword and juggled a lot.....but when we fought with spears I went 12-1 and he went 4-4  O_o

 

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