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Dec 20 2010
By: TheGerman031 I Only Post Everything 1319 posts
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Why do the puzzles have to be so difficult?

10 replies 4957 views Edited Dec 20, 2010

I get soo overwhelmed by the difficulty of the puzzles in this game. Sometimes its necessary, but most of the time I simply cannot figure them out, I have to look it up or i will never pass that part. I'd rather spend my time trying to kill a boss or enemies, not jumping around wondering wtf im supposed to do.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Why do the puzzles have to be so difficult?

May 17, 2011

I'm not much of a fan of puzzles myself, but I don't find them all that trying.  I just prefer it when the gents and I find ways around them for later playthroughs (via skips).

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Why do the puzzles have to be so difficult?

Feb 8, 2012

I think the puzzles are smoothly moderate. Not very hard and challenging. Keep in mind though that they do bring some fine taste to the fast paced action that the GoW games are known for.  So they are essential to soften the frequent intensity of the games from time to time. In short, I am happy with the puzzles like the way they are. Nonetheless, these are only my thoughts.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Why do the puzzles have to be so difficult?

Feb 8, 2012

Wouldn't you rather be able to skip them in NG+/BP settings?  Perhaps paying to do so with EXP or something?  It is cute for the first time experience, but is simply a bother beyond it.  With so many repeat playthroughs, it can really get annoying for lack of means to skip them.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Why do the puzzles have to be so difficult?

Feb 8, 2012

I agree that the puzzles can be considered as nuisances in NG+/ (what does BP stand for?) since they somewhat feel shallow after consecutive walkthroughs. However, it is one of those insignificant issues which could only affect the gamplay at a micro level. So even though your idea is fantastic, I don't think that SMS would be concerned with this issue.

Nevertheless, this puzzle dilemma is perhaps only insignificant to the average GoW player (most fans, including me), while to the professional GoW players who engage in complex rules (few fans, such as yourself) can see this as an obstruction to their taste.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Why do the puzzles have to be so difficult?

Feb 9, 2012

>BP

Same concept as NG+.  Bonus Play.  GoW has gone by both handles for the same mode.

>shallow

Less my concern.  More pressing is time wasted on non-combat cases in combat driven runs.

>SMS concerned with hardcore players

GoW is almost entirely focused on casuals.  Indeed, it panders to those who know not what to ask for in a given title.  Proof enough is the fiasco with sub-weapons in GoWIII (nevermind the brother arc).  They wanted more weapons like the Blades.  They got it.  And whined anyway.  Vets still managed to appreciate these tools.

>obstruction

To say the least.

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Re: Why do the puzzles have to be so difficult?

Feb 10, 2012

Please elaborate on the sub-weapons' efficiency since I do not find any possible appreciation with weps such as the Claws of Hades (besides its fancy attack style, I don't see any better use. The magic is ok but not good enough) or Nemesis Whip (even though it is faster and stronger than the BoE, I don't find it expedient enough).

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Why do the puzzles have to be so difficult?

Feb 15, 2012

>elaborate

On all of them?

>can't find anything to appreciate

It really isn't so hard as you make it sound.

>CoH

You note fancy attack style as a perk?

>Whips

It certainly has speed, but raw damage advantage?  I do wonder.  That depends.

And what of the Cestus?  I presume you don't want to cover it as you didn't note anything about it.

I'll avoid getting too stuck on details, percentiles and values, but give you some light coverage on these two:

CoH

-The modifier for damage increases a fair amount, but not quite as much as the Blades (the method of increasing base power and decreasing upgrade power discourages players from working with the new weapons *they again fail to get casuals to work with the alternatives*.

-Slightly shorter strings with a bit more circular motions (coverage) and a slight power advantage early on (edged out when the BoE MAX out).

-It's S *Lament* (and s5) has the interesting property of achieving OH on a grounded target (not all that can be OH'd though), but lacks the option to pick between the knockback or the 'grab'.  This is somewhat troublesome design oversight.  This should have been a lvl1 ability for what it does.  If s5 were better, this might be justified as it is now.

-The s5 (Agony) is a clear variant of BoE's s6 (Valor), but suffers from the issue of a slight deficit in forward range.

-It's CG (Soul Rip) pulls on foes to release 'flicks' (souls) that distract and rack up the hit count.  Damage is negligable and rarely works as a good stun tool.  I'd have done this move differently (souls more true to 'Legion', damage at 1 point *at least*, better bounce potential for at least Pests and Minor Grunts, etc.).  Maybe had a held version working as a QTE without i-frames (not unlike Satyr ground OS) that attempts to pull the soul from the enemy (collected for use as a spell rather than gained via upgrade *let upgrades make them better instead*).  Not sure how I'd prefer to draw it in (mashing, reeling, L1+R1, etc. *maybe different ways depending on foe), may only allow the option when foe is sufficiently low in life (grab conditions or even a faint purple glow visible with Claws out).

NOTE: I dislike its specials in general.  The normals are much more effective.

-Lash fails to crowd control as it should (it is a stationary CoC with less reach).  It should deal better damage and more effectively zone up to high level minor grunts like the Olympus Legionnaire that will usually leap through such moves.  A light bounce is desired.  If not adding these things, the range would need to increase.  If not that, significant damage boost as you are using a commited move with meh damage, meh range and meh control.  It is just more flash.  The air version could use the ability to delay falls more than it does already (more to the tune of BoE's charged TR).  Indeed, holding the input for a longer use while hovering over groups or large foe would go a long way to add more hits from a safer position with better control over the animation (not being left vulnerable) in exchange for less damage and reach than CoC (while being able to hit above and below us).

-Sorrow is meant to be a sort of instant 360 plume localized to Kratos that then causes a 360 knockback, but it doesn't quite work out that way.  If it did, it might get a more positive review.  The air version is meant to at least send foes into the air, but without slowing our descent a bit, it doesn't warrant use.

-I don't have a great opinion of evade attacks.  Achilles' Flip was as good as they've ever been with Athena's Wrath being the worst.  Bane is fairly effective for what it is, but could use a slight damage perk.

-Competing with the Blades means competing with t0 (Plume) and t3 (Spirit).  CoH has a middle ground approach to the moderate damage bouncing former and the higher damage (somewhat dedicated) latter.  Because it does the same damage after s2, s3, s4 and t2, it doesn't have a 'Super' version.  If you are looking for an answer to Plume, that is all you'll get.  It should have had a super variant for after s4 and t2.  For what it is, the damage is superior to Plume, but less than Spirit. It has slight less area of effect than either, so it can't as reliably be used to lock multiple foes (Cyclops Enforcers for example).  However, it has the interesting property of 'lingering' after usage which causes further harm to those that wander into the point of impact.  Had it a 'Super' version with even slightly more damage and a longer linger (for more hits/control) with a tiny bit more range...this would go a long way to help its case I believe.

-The square normals are decent.  I've covered the ender.  The triangle normals are okay.  All relatively safe, fair damage, etc.  I just went over the triangle ender.  In the air, it is slightly better than others in that it has a good chance of making contact.  It's air t1 stands out with a large area of coverage with extremely high damage for the sort of move it is (air strike made to bounce foes as a set-up for juggles or air grabs).

-It's launcher (T) comes out quick, can be repeatedly called out, recovers quickly, allows pursue (though GoWIII removed i-frames from these), has a large area of coverage and hits for higher damage (in a single blow) than the other launchers.

-Soul Summon.  Not enough souls for starters.  The cast isn't done with an attack animation so you're free to move around while using it (for the most part), but this comes at the cost of any i-frame potential.  Souls have problems.  Many involve targeting, but some can simply fall off platforms.  It would be nice to pick what attack option of the soul in question we could use (Ex: Cerberus Mongrel could chase into slap, use 3x fire ball or do Flamethrower).  I'll stick to grading what is here though.  Mongrel is decent.  Sentries seem good based on possible efficiency, but usually don't work out that way at all.  Same for the Archers (should have been very abusable).

Gorgon Serpent is a poor excuse for an answer to the missing Stheno's Head.  It offers 'Flash', but at a much too high cost with the already bad targeting at work (should allow use a better degree of control with it).  Summong a 'Gorgon' would have been nice for the 'Stare' option (better potential to exploit this for any foe that can be made to get off the ground).  In either case, if Kratos could make their heads come off for 'Rage' (360 petrification), maybe the outrageous cost would be tolerable.

Chimera is remarkably bad.  The damage with the explosions isn't all that, it doesn't have a good chance of hitting groups, it doesn't distract them, etc.  I'd rather have Goat form's firewave or even Snake form's rushing grab.  If it were cheap, Snake form's stun for light damage, but to create an opening for some troublesome foes (not unlike blinding them, but doing so on the go).

Cyclops Berserker is simple enough.  It is a form that hounds and goes for the kick to punch.  A bit 'wonky', but it does good damage and can break shields.  The damage for the cost isn't bad either (for a single target).

Centaur is decent for charging through groups, but the 'tracing' it does through crowds could use work.  For a single target it would only really shine if the foe causes the spirit to get stuck on them as with some special cases (HCB, Skorpius, etc.).  It is there that this spell shines.  You can get something like 3-4 hits (90-120 damage) for 20MP which vastly outranks even MAX'd AoS (40MP for 50-70 damage) *but it affords protection, doesn't need a special case and hits multiple foes easily*.  Might have been good for it to impale and toss for a final hit before disappearing as an extre 5-10 damage while keeping that foe locked up.

Siren Seductress and Olympus Fiend work a similar angle.  The latter is a near instant localized explosion (always on the ground though) that starts with a very meh 1:1 ratio for its range, but upgrades to nearly 2:1.  The bounce is nice.  It doesn't have to do a lot of damage, so much as leaving havoc around the battlefield as we evade/attack.  The other has a slight delay before the shockwave sends out damage just over 1:1.  Two of them tie with AoS' low end notation.  Frankly, it could use up to 30 damage for 15MP for lack of i-frames, it cannot hit air foes, it doesn't seem great for knockback/bounce/launch, etc.

NOTE: It is odd that the Siren shockwave works like this as a spell, but the QTE case for the real thing is nothing like that.  Two alternatives for the Siren summon could have been turning intangible and distracting foes much like Pandora does (for a low, low cost like 5MP for 3-5 second application) or having it fire a shockwave that pulls orbs out of targets in blast range (be it MP, HP, RP and/or EXP *depends on foe*) with a slight stun on those affected.

Summary: Moderate damage scaling, some design flaws, lame specials, magic needs more attention, good evade and exceptional normals.

Whips

-The modifier for upgrading it from the high base damage is very small (same as Cestus).  Instead, it adds good specials and longer tirades (greatly increasing their damage).

-It's CG is the same as with the BoE.  This one is stronger when both are low level, but the BoE version surpasses it in power even if the Whips seem marginally faster.  It claims to hit those near the target in a way different from the BoE, but I've not found that to be the case. Were it so, it might justify itself for impact on a group.

-The launcher is in the vein of the SoD.  t1 is very fast with light damage.  It is a great set-up tool for juggles, OH, air OS, air combos, etc.  The forward reach is lacking, but the vertical reach is surprising (perhaps too vertical).  t2 (Penance) is an auto-launch follow-up.  I'm more for manually going into the air, but this is a fine way to continue a lock on a given foe (Ex: Satyrs, Minotaurs, etc.).

-The normals leading to Contempt (s5) *another Valor variant* are fine.  s3 sort of plays at the stun roll of Plume, but doesn't quite have the bounce (this is one aspect of the weapon that many will find lacking as they just want to spam a t0 type move).  s5 is a decent 'Valor' clone.  The air square are meh, but the air triangle are fairly good for keeping up locks.

-Judgement is the 360 launcher and it is quite damaging.  The air version can juggle and even (sometimes) launch foes from off the ground.  It too is quite good.  Reprisal is of limited use (nice for a certain exploit with larger foes).  The air version is an amusing call back to Hermes Stomp for getting out of the air quickly (made much better with tirade damage *might be better with a tiny bit more range for each whip around Kratos*).

-The evade hit (Avenging Strike) is meh.  Not terrible.  Not great.

-The meat of the weapon's damage (aside from setting up locks, grabs, juggles, etc.) will come from the held inputs (Tirades).  They don't always do a great job locking higher level foes, but the damage is no joke and tends to have good coverage while being easy to cancel out of.  Each Tirade off moves that allow it are quite different.  The weak t1 has an incredily damaging tirade that can hit Talos height targets and up even when on the ground while also juggling air foes for a good amount of damage).

-The spell is a projectile CR without the MAX ability to explode for a knockback, the degree of lock or the cost efficiency.  To revise, it is projectile CR-lite.  It could have been better.  Cute for light i-frames, high hit count, light lock, decent localized damage (could use some arc lightning), etc.

Summary: Very fast, mostly linear, decent base damage (low glass ceiling), effective normals for damage (not so much control *takes more effort*), great specials (better control and set-up), top tier set-ups, meh evades, tirades bring the damage and a passable spell.

NOTE: All sub-weapons cost less to MAX than the Blades.  It shows in that they don't give them sufficient attention, but they are all still very effective tools.

Both of these are vet tools.  Especially the whips.  Newer players won't get great use out of them.  Cestus is more accessible, but is lacking in damage with upgrades (the spell is a bad joke).  BoE is, frankly, a tiny bit overpowered with regards to how well realized it is and the spell is a bit too strong for an area-of-effect type (same as PR in GoW1 *not quite that broken though*).

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Splicer
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Re: Why do the puzzles have to be so difficult?

Feb 20, 2012

The puzzles in these games need to be harder, they're always so straight forward

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Re: Why do the puzzles have to be so difficult?

Feb 21, 2012

They are pace breaks with light brain teases to slow you down.  They don't get harder because you can't just repeat the same puzzle over and over without padding out the game and you can't start harder as you'll piss off the player for lack of enough explanation.  They have to strike a balance that doesn't allow them to go beyond casual navigation, casual combat, casual bosses, casual collection and casual puzzles.  They even have casual trophies. The game is made to be relatively painless.

It would be too much trouble to change things meaningfully (even in combat) for higher settings much less the puzzles scaling (changing) with the setting chosen (as amusing as that would be if realized).  Changing foe layout would also take a lot of time.  I'm sure you know why your request won't be realized and why it cannot be for this series.

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