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Gaming Beast
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Re: Skid Recovery Force made obligatory on Seasonal Events

[ Edited ]
Feb 9, 2013

fcofdz wrote:

I don't know about this SRF issue is related to the system's capability. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a GT game running on a PC, but making the SFR locked on an "expert" event is ridiculous, if anything, the aid uses more processing capability when active than when not used. 

 

Now, speaking of the trademark STUPID Gran Turismo AI, I don't thing its related to the PS3 processing capabilities, the Xbox has similar computing power and the AI of Forza is incredibly better than the Gran Turismo one, you actually enjoy racing against AI on Forza. Yes, maybe the somewhat better physics of Gran Turismo consume more computing power, but I don't think that's the reason... then again, I don't know squat about how the Physics Engine of each game is programmed.

 

I actually left Forza and Xbox and bought GT and a PS3. GT is absolutely a better simulator but sometimes it falis with the most basic things like this SRF lock nonsense.


Well, you can think whatever you like, but while the abilities of the AI are obviously limited by the AI code underpinning their actions (which will only be pursued to the limits of the target device for all the standard business reasons) , effectively, the AI is limited due to the processing power a given platform offers and the use of portions of that power for other things. That's not uneducated theory, it's fact. And imo it's the primary reason PD is forced to use tricks to make these seasonals competitive. Since, as you've theorized, each has the same computational power, I'd say this: Based on the idea that they have roughly the same computational power, I doubt the other consoles would fair any better were GT5 on them. It's not slam on PD, like the backhanded insults some children toss out at the game for silly things, flailing their pudgy lil' virtual arms and kicking their virtual feet. 

 

So they forced SRF on for the seasonal. Big deal. Get over it.  I either win, or I don't win. It's a firiggin game. You want real competition? Join a league, race online, gather your friends and race against them.  The AI in these game consoles isn't going to approach anything other than a carefully orchestrated blocking dance until their power increases significantly.

 

The interesting thing for me is the theory that cropped up regarding PD's use of SRF to help the AI. I was not aware the AI could take advantage of the game features, and if true, it implies two important things

 

1) PD didwork on or has been working on the AI code to allow its use of the game features (SRF being one of those features)

2) If the AI responds to vehicle augmentation (SRF being an example) PD *should theoretically be able to use grippier tires for AI in the future (or advanced engine capabilities, etc.) to increase their competitive challenge to us, (unless the use of SRF is a specific code change and  test and they're beginning to augment the AI with more realism). 

 

I'd note that if they've already incorporated code to take advantage of the various features, SRF, abs, tires, engine, etc.) then they should not have to gimp anything to make things more competitive. Personally, I don't' think they have, and I suspect that SRF (edit: wrt to the theory that it is being used by the AI)  represents recent code development changes, perhaps in pursuit of the new version, although I also highly doubt that GT5 on the PS3 will enjoy the full benefits of improvements, because I don't think he PS3 is up to it. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.

 

I'd far prefer future developments to use increased AI power rather than purposeful gimping to increase challenge, wouldn't you?

- There's a distinct difference between slow & deliberate and deliberately slow -
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Gaming Beast
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Re: Skid Recovery Force made obligatory on Seasonal Events

Feb 9, 2013

Well said anjen, and obviously an informed statement. 

 Not only is SFR not a big deal but PD is damned if they do and damned if they don't. When the first "expert" seasonal came out there were a host of people who said it was to hard, some even said impossible. It's like a nation trying to educate every child in a standard and scripted way, it's bound to leave those on the periphery of abilities with less or to much of a challenge, Ultimately we as individuals need to accept the responsibility of making it work for our needs. In this case run a lower pp, try it on a lesser tire, get gold and go race real people and forget it.  Not saying those who have voiced an opinion shouldn't have but rather encouraging them to accept some responsibility to challenge themselves. PD did offer insensitive to do so, it's not like they don't see the problem.  

  Back in an earlier release PD tried to tackle the AI issue by having us run qualifying races. Qualify fast and the AI was tough, qualify slow and not so much. Aside from going back to that system I see no way of incrementally making the AI tougher based on "your" skill, or lack there of. Race and be happy that's my opinion.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Skid Recovery Force made obligatory on Seasonal Events

Feb 10, 2013

So why an 'Expert' designation in the first place?

 

That GT5 has players of ALL skill levels from the most basic of tyro to the 'aliens' at the top of the Time Trial leaderboards is hardly news. But it is impossible to creat ONE event that is possible to win by a relative newcomer that isn't an insult to the abilities of the top level players. In fact, PD started doing these 'Expert' level Seasonals precisely beacause of the complaints (requests, gripes, whatever you want to use to describe it) from good players that the Seasonals presented no challenge unless you nerfed your car to a ridiculous level, and then the race turned out to be overtaking every corner, and blocking like crazy on every straight as the AI caught back up.

 

Pd started doing 'Expert' level seasonals so you could use a car with parity to the AI (so you didn't have to do the crazy blocking once past), the rabbit was so far out ahead you had to drive like a demon to catch him, and you weren't allowed aids other than ABS to further the 'Expert' designation. And, when the beginners couldn't ace it, they looked at the 'Expert' designation and consoled themselves with 'well, it's for experts, maybe I shouldn't win it yet!'

 

Now, messed up. FUBAR...

 

Mind you, this isn't the first mistake in the 'Expert' Seasonals... Didn't we have a Lambo one a while back where you were allowed to put tires on two grades softer than the race description said you were limited to? Perhaps we are seeing what kind of  priority and importance PD are attaching to the Seasonals? Little oversight, little imagination in car and track selection, obviously no consistency... It seems as if this important task (most of us have done A-Spec as far as we want to go ages ago) gets handed to the most junior staffer at PD.

 

But, other than online, what's left to do? Arcade? Practice mode? Very little control there over opponents, and again, basically no challenge to the expert driver unless he nerfs himself into a junior class of car. I think that the Seasonals are FAR more important than PD apparently feel, themselves.

 

But keep being content with what they do... Keep accepting happily, and keep excusing it. You are pretty much guaranteeing it will continue to happen. Is that what you really want..?

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MVP Support
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Re: Skid Recovery Force made obligatory on Seasonal Events

Feb 10, 2013

Little oversight? As far as I heard Kazunori approves all Seasonals himself.

 

Many of your ideas are nothing more than conjecture because you don't know the real reason behind PD doing this, but then you just use that as another opportunity to belittle someone / something connected with GT. One of the first forum rules you agreed to by registering was to not be overly negative, you know. :smileywink:

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Skid Recovery Force made obligatory on Seasonal Events

Feb 10, 2013

I think the only over estimation being done is that of the importance of this or any other game.  Two years we have enjoyed and played, two years......   I know of no other game in history that stood by itself with a following of so many for this long, O.k maybe Pong. I guess I just don't love GT as much as you, I can only find the time to have fun with it .

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PlayStation MVP
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Re: Skid Recovery Force made obligatory on Seasonal Events

[ Edited ]
Feb 10, 2013

As folks have been trying to say, what they really want is just to race and be happy.  Sure, many are confused about the SRF and other niggly things, but a lot of them are just choosing to not make that big a deal of it.    What you see as excusing, to others is just a matter of priorities, as in yeah that is puzzling, but it doesn't make it the end of the GT5 universe.

 

Hey just be happy there is a game that continues to provide fun for a community more than two years later.

 

That excusing or prioritizing or whatever you want to call it, is just their opinion and like you said to Matt, If their opinion doesn't agree with yours (or even the entire forum!), they feel no need to change it.   So, not sure why you continue to try to convince people their opinion is wrong, or yours is right?

 

We get it, you think it's a big problem.  Others think, not so much.

 

Next race, please.

 




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First Son
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Re: Skid Recovery Force made obligatory on Seasonal Events

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Feb 11, 2013

Sackboy: You sir understood my point perfectly! Cheers

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Skid Recovery Force made obligatory on Seasonal Events

Feb 13, 2013

anjen wrote:

fcofdz wrote:

Hi all,

 

I'd like to start a thread about the fact that the last 2 or 3 seasonal events have the Skid Recovery Force option selected and it cannot be changed. I don't know if I'm the only one who is really bothered by this but I can't find people complaining about this issue anywhere else. 

 

If some developer or similar is reading this post, please consider making the Skid Recovery Force selecion optional because it kills the difficulty of the simulation and I can't think of a reason to make this option obligatory for all users.

 

Seasonal Events are some of the greatest advantages of GT5 against Forza and to lose the challege on them would be really a shame.

 

Cheers!


While I understand that some would be frustrated, personally speaking, I don't really care either way, because it's pretty clear that these restrictions are simply ways to keep the free races that PD provides each week (or so) having a degree of difficulty that imposes challenge upon the player, within the framework of the artificial intelligence routines a PS3 can handle

 

As I've said in the past (and probably to the annoyance of  playstation acolytes ;-) ) It's a crying shame that this game can't be provided in a PC format. The expanded capabilities of a real computer would benefit it in so many ways, including (but not by a long shot limited to) the ability to increase the AI intelligence and so avoid the forced "challenge" by "albatross" (comfort softs, forced use of SRF, etc.) .

 

But nonetheless, that's the way it is. And so I just deal.


Wouldn't Microsoft, who also makes computers, be sued by Sony and PD if they make a PC release of Gran Turismo? :smileyindifferent:

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Skid Recovery Force made obligatory on Seasonal Events

Feb 13, 2013

MetaKraken wrote:

anjen wrote:

fcofdz wrote:

Hi all,

 

I'd like to start a thread about the fact that the last 2 or 3 seasonal events have the Skid Recovery Force option selected ...


... It's a crying shame that this game can't be provided in a PC format. The expanded capabilities of a real computer would benefit it in so many ways, including (but not by a long shot limited to) the ability to increase the AI intelligence and so avoid the forced "challenge" by "albatross" (comfort softs, forced use of SRF, etc.) .

 

But nonetheless, that's the way it is. And so I just deal.


Wouldn't Microsoft, who also makes computers, be sued by Sony and PD if they make a PC release of Gran Turismo? :smileyindifferent:


Who said anything about Microsoft releasing a PC-ready version of GT5? 

- There's a distinct difference between slow & deliberate and deliberately slow -
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Skid Recovery Force made obligatory on Seasonal Events

Feb 14, 2013

fcofdz wrote:

Hi all,

 

I'd like to start a thread about the fact that the last 2 or 3 seasonal events have the Skid Recovery Force option selected and it cannot be changed.


With tonight's new 590pp German seasonal having SRF locked 'on', that's now three consecutive seasonals set that way.

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