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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 05/11/2010
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Re: Zipline - Episode 28 Preview Thread

Jan 12, 2011

Was happy to see something like MAG, Zipper has raised the bar on console gaming.

I love Socom and although I have not played zipper's newest installment on ps3 I would like for the series to continue. Just waiting for that release date.

Questions:

Chance of seeing Socom 4 in the Summer? Or somewhere in November?

 

Any news on Socom 4 beta?

It's been a year for MAG, so anything planned for this month?

Are you done with polls for MAG, or are you at least done with asking neutral questions?
(for those that keep asking)

Alot of PC players would have liked something like MAG for PC. Would you guys ever consider working on other platforms?


Anything new from Zipper for PSP?

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Fender Bender
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Re: Zipline - Episode 28 Preview Thread

Jan 12, 2011

I think Sequals are a good idea.... Take something people love, and do it better. But I believe that if you focus too much on what has come before, you will lose a lot of innovation.

I am a musician, and I see it time and time again. Creative minds, that get sucked into the "standard pop format" and now, when they think of writing songs, they think about what "the user wants"... 3minutes, easy catchy hook. And if they dont hear that... they think a song is weak... instead of seeing how they can make something groundbreaking that people will instantly love.

And then they wonder why musical geniuses that break the mold become so popular.... with technically weak songs. In music....  if people spent too much time thinking about "what people want", we would still be listening to chamber classical music. And miss out on a lot.

And in Games: If you focus too much on what people want.... you end up with a generic shooter that everyone has played before.... And the problem with that... is with so many different game companies... unless you make the BEST generic shooter.... no one is going to care about you. Whereas if you make something unique.... no matter how many new games come out.... there will only be one game out there that can satisfy the craving.

Think about Portal. How many games out there are like it?
There isn't a "Portal is going to die when *insert generic game here* comes out" thread. Because there is no game that can steal the userbase. And Portal will keep getting people buying it, years later.... because the playerbase stays, and every loyal fan of the game, will keep talking about their favourite game, to people who have never tried it... and they will soon buy it.

MAG has glimpses of this awesome creativity. Other than WOW.... there is almost no place you can have 256 people interacting in one environment.  I personally would like to see MAG unleashed. Reach its full potential. Instead of worrying about all the things that all the other games are worrying about..... Let players play something that they have to explore. If you make a game that is as vast as MAG, but then confine players to playing it only one way... its like playing a REALLY awesome single player campaign... that's only 1 hour long. You quickly get through the game... and then feel wanting for more.

Successful sequals do two things:
1: Keep improving a great game.

2: cash in on success.

 

Sequals fail when:
1: there is no more room for something new.

2: people realize that they've been suckered.

 

You should focus on making REPLAYABLE content. The reason ONline games hold my addiction, is because every game is different. And every game will play out differently. M

I think MAG 2 deserves a sequal. But I do not think MAG 2 should be MAG, with more bells and whistles. I think MAG 2 needs to be taken in a completely unique direciton. Build upon the IDEAS of MAG.

You've shown people that you can make a basic shooter with 256 players, and that the people who stick around, are here for the unique gameplay that you cant get anywhere else. So instead of trying to bring more people in with the evolved bells and whistles (more guns, maps, skins, better graphics) but same same concept.... Try and bring more people in with an evolved concept.  (more tactics, more tools for setting up customized games, more open gameplay to explore, more assets, more types of game modes)


MAG 2 needs to build upon that idea: That people will play something that is fun. Yes they are going to whine for MOAR GUNS! More skins... and MOAR *insert things that every other game has*..... but if you give them something that they never thought of, and make it work..... they are going to stick with you forever.... because there is no other place

 

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If you havnt stopped reading already. Ill go back to the music analogy.
People like to listen to the same band. But they dont want to hear the same band play the same songs CD after CD. They get into a band with the radio hit... and then they build upon that trust that this band is a good band, and take their audience somewhere new. And that is what keeps people hooked.

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Fender Bender
Registered: 04/20/2010
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Re: Zipline - Episode 28 Preview Thread

Jan 12, 2011
Here's a great game example: Blizzard Games.

Warcraft 2 comes out. redefines the benchmark for RTS. Takes RTS to a new level.

Starcraft comes out. Completely changes the gameplay. Its not warcraft in Space. It's Starcraft. Map editor lets users unlock and play starcraft HOWEVER they want. Starcraft is still popular today, and I can get into a SC game in 3 minutes right now if I wanted to.

Warcraft 3 comes out. Again. Unlocks RTS. Adds in hero units, spells. Micro managing. Completely seperate from other RTS.

years go by.... SC 2 comes out. A perfect SEQUAL. IT isnt cashing in on SC1.... it is reviving the LOYAL PLAYERBASE that they still have from SC1. If SC1 was a generic RTS game.... no one would be excited for SC2.

And in between all of this, Blizzard does Diablo. Which is one game that is kinda cashing in on sequalitus.
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Zipline - Episode 28 Preview Thread

Jan 12, 2011

 


zpr_Roper wrote:
Do you think it's great that we keep working on SOCOM titles? Were you glad to see us work on something new like MAG? What do you think about the industry's reliance on sequels year after year?

 

You're free to ask questions, but try to keep them related to the topic.


My favorite series, so yes. However, I hope you guys go back to your roots instead of trying to attract mainstream gamers. SOCOM II : HD, please. :smileyhappy:

 

 

No, stay and improve SOCOM (or make MAG 2) ;p

 

Depends if the company gives DLC, or makes new ones.

 

 

Would you guys make MAG modes neutral regardless of what people say, like Sabo?

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Fender Bender
Registered: 03/03/2010
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Re: Zipline - Episode 28 Preview Thread

Jan 12, 2011

personally, only socom i played was conf, wich i hated

so chances im getting socom 4 is pretty low

hey if i had it my way, you guys would drop this silly project of yours and devote every person to MAG :smileyvery-happy:

 

anyway, just a suggestion

if you guys end up making a MAG 2, dont be afraid to stray outside the box

do something new

im fed up with all these modern/near future warfare games

massive medival battles, futuristic, or cival war times

do something new so wen people see it, they dont think "oh just another modern day shooter"

make them think "holy **bleep**, a huge brutal medival warfare game?

"

Concerning the topic, i dont mind sequals as long as they bring something new to the table

reskinning it and giving it one or 2 things new is just cheep

you saw how well that ended for infinity ward....

 

*edit* i was glad that you guys took on making MAG

you did what no 1 else would dare attempt

kudos zipper



Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
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Splicer
Registered: 11/09/2009
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Re: Zipline - Episode 28 Preview Thread

Jan 12, 2011

Will mag be downloadable from disc? (installing 50% or more to make load times faster and possibly cutting down on lag or hit detection)

 

Will mag disc owners be able to download the downloadable version from psn store? ( again making load times faster)

 

Theses are two different option ones from the disc it self (just like unreal tournament 3) and the other would be some verification that indeed you are a mag owner (disc would have to be in) and it would read the disc allowing a free dl of the psn game. and for this option the game would have to be in the system in order to play it from the harddrive (disabling theft and fraud).

 

Will there ever be (near future) a way to donate CP to a clan or friends? (this could go towards upgrades such as bigger member list, costs X amount to actually start a clan, each month depending on how good that clan did in its pmc gets rewarded with X amount of cp, possibly doing a clan cp fee from month to month this fee would take into account total players and total players cp that was made by players and how well that pmc did that month so if you did good less cp owing if ur pmc did bad more cp owing this would help flush out the shadow war more, custom clan decals painted on players and there vehicles, and buying possible upgraded vehicles such as more armor and faster, the list goes on but also if you do read this having two different cp modes one for clan and one for the player, the player would buy what we have now but possibly more such as future weapons and player decals, and warpaint.)

 

And finally will there ever be a psn home mag center? for displaying leader boards, contracts etc.... also maybe a recruiting center for mag clans. 

 

iam a huge fan of zipper (you guys actually listen to make a game better, and reply to ppl) so i staying with mag till either mag 2 comes out or the servers get shut down. dont listen to the haters because you guys kick so much a#$, keep up the good work:smileyhappy:

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First Son
Registered: 01/10/2011
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Re: Zipline - Episode 28 Preview Thread

Jan 12, 2011

In mag you should FIX THE SHOTGUN RANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sackboy
Registered: 02/26/2010
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Re: Zipline - Episode 28 Preview Thread

Jan 12, 2011

zpr_Roper wrote:

 

This week's topic will be: Existing franchises vs. new franchises. Our special guest will be Zipper President Brian Soderberg.

 

What we're looking for from you guys is your thoughts on the topic. In this case, do you think it's great that we keep working on SOCOM titles? Were you glad to see us work on something new like MAG? What do you think about the industry's reliance on sequels year after year?

 

You're free to ask questions, but try to keep them related to the topic.


MAG was the first time I've even heard of Zipper.  I've heard of Socom before, but end of the day I never cared about the series; I simply greatly prefer FPS to TPS.  So I must say I've had very mixed emotions about Zipper working on Socom again, because it means you dropped the ball on the promises I bought into when I excitedly waited for MAG and brought it home midnight of launch.  There has been support, but I miss the first few months, even though I sucked then.  Things could have been so much different if MAG was important to Zipper as a franchise, not just as a stepping stone to Socom 4.

 

I want to know why MAG never evolved.  Yes 2.0 came out, and that was a big step forward, but the CORE modes were never expanded.  There were no new items tied to holding contracts.  There has been no new equipment.  No new weapon classes.  No new attachments.  There were no new maps for the original modes.  The "world map" never changed.  The shadow war became static, 1984 style.  And therefore it became meaningless.  Do you remember when people tracked the contracts on a daily basis?  I do.  It was awesome.  It was immersive.  It captured the, you are part of a bigger picture.  I don't know when the last time I even checked the contracts was now.  I know not everyone enjoyed that aspect.  But you never deliverd to them either.  You backpeddled on clan wars.  The factions slowly grew to be identical instead of branching apart.  Someone mentioned Starcraft as an example of a game done right.  That was asymetrical.  MAG was touted as such but now we are probably only a month or two away before everything is neutral.  Then you tried to pity us into a half-baked "character slot" deal.

 

MAG has core gameplay features found nowhere else.  I will buy day one the next FPS that offers the uniquely MAG blend of scale and teamwork.  I will buy it even if it costs more than other games.  I have never been a fan of the subscription model, but I would do it for a game like MAG.  I will wait a month if it is made by Zipper though.  You broke the mold with this game, and you've been slowly trying to mainstream it instead of explore the new territory you discovered.

 

Sequels are great.  I think a good idea for a MAG franchise would be to look at America's Army.  I realize they are paid for by the government, but I believe you can look at their upgrade model for an idea of how to succesfully sequel MAG.  They have rebuilt the game several times and your character could carry forward.  Despite all the additions and improvements, the game never lost it's unique feel.  MAG could do that.  And the player performace can be the campaign.  Release DLC every month and a completely new "client" every year.  You could change major things and have a chance to drop features or equipment and then sell special maps/armor/weapons (especially weapons) to keep revenues up.  Make the client update free (like 2.0) but since it is new, DLC won't carry forward.  People would not be upset if they knew the DLC was only good until the next update.  Or sell the client and make the DLC free.  More players equals more server costs but also means the "hardcore" will spend more.  Just don't make it pay-to-play (escalation weapons were good at this) and everyone is happy.

 

On a different note, keep the "story" alive but use actual players.  If TDF becomes Raven's elite special forces, then work that into the GNN.  =V= has become so big that EnglishSnake is promoted to General.  It doesn't really matter what you would do to get the point - actively engage the community.  Look at EVE online if you need a better example.  Because if you do, I believe we would take care of keeping you in business.  Use the FPS to determine the winners and losers in the imaginary world.  Use the MMO to make your money.

 

Edit/Additions:

In summation, if I were to redo MAG with the goal of making a stable and long term profit, I would use the training system from AA (qualify for medical training by passing a first aid quiz, sniper by being a good shot, etc), the FPS that is MAG now, the asymetrical balance like in starcraft, a living world with "something desirable" changing hands (weapons, vehicles, maps), the constantly expanding content model of an mmo, the community engagement of EVE Online, and recruitment trees from FB games, CLAN MATCHES in-universe as training excercises, built-in match recording from any angle, and the forge map editor from halo (for non "real" matches only).  There should be some sort of free form private practice area.  Have rank based salaries and limit equipment to rented gear until you can afford to own 1 in addition to issued gear.

 

Furthermore, I would franchise it.  Make tie in games that have nothing to do with the shadow war but everything to do with the world.  I promise only one example: a terrorist hunt expansion.  Single squad tactics, could even be a TPS, PVE.  The key would be to make the character the same between them.  If players could buy a counter-terrorism game, and the MAG we have today was actually a "shadow war" that not every soldier was engaged in, you have deeper immersion.  Breaking promise: If you released single-player "episodes" as tours of duty that affected your overall rank, people would buy every one.  Perhaps a leadership school that you need to complete successfully to be a squad leader.  A constantly expanding franchise could allow some ideas to flop without risking the entire community.

 

You took the wrong lesson from the success of COD.  No one can get COD players to buy their game instead by offering COD gameplay with a twist.  What you can do is get lots of gamers to buy into a virtual world they have a stake and effect in.  This would mean careful monitoring of the community and fresh content.  But blizzard certainly isn't hurting.  I believe they feel more secure with their future products than, say, Infinity Ward.

 

Or you can build an FPS and leave the RPG out entirely.  But that is a one-time sell.  Better to play up the MMO aspect.  It was good stuff.  Maybe change the date or officially leave the "real" timeline.

 

Here's a quick money making idea: add a time trial course with pop-up soldiers for Valor, VR for Raven, and Scarecrows or something for SVer.  Allow people to see best times on player cards.  Add 10 min of content, without worring about balance or AI or lag or network issues.  Sell it for $5-$10.  Use text to save the voice cast costs.  Don't spend more than a week making it, tops.  What other MAG ideas have been floating around untapped on these forums?  Surely one of them is a good cost to payout.

An Essay on Reviving MAG
Help solve MAG freezing issues. Contribute here: Freeze Logs, Improve Freeze Recovery

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Zipline - Episode 28 Preview Thread

Jan 12, 2011
Socom 2 and CA where my first tps or fps I ever really got into. to the point I was playing them everyday online. i played Socom CA for years without buying another game for my ps2. (For me, my wife bought the GH series and the band set-up) I bought my PS3 just so I could play MAG. And have been playing MAG for the past three months with no end in sight. (unless the freezing doesn't stop). But, that being said, MAG is not/was not what I expected. i thought it was going to be more of an open war like PlanetSide that I have just recently learned about and can't wait for the release of PlanetSide 2 if it comes to the PS3. So if you were going to make a sequel to MAG.....then if I were you I'd be watching this title.
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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Zipline - Episode 28 Preview Thread

Jan 12, 2011

ah yes zipper anymore stuff coming to mag between now and kz3's release date or ever and mag2 would be awesome 4pmcs VALOR=AMERICANS,BRITISH,MEXICANS.S.V.E.R.=RUSSIAN,INDIAN,CHINESE/JAPANESE.RAVEN=GERMAN,ITALIN,FRENCH,AND AN EW PMC CONSISTING OF =AFGHANSTAIN,AFRICA,VIETNAMEISE.

PlayStation Fan since the PS2.
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