MVP General Discussion

[cobragt~]

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I hate when sites capture pics from games, like gt4.  Ppl see meh gt4 pics and think that's how the game looks.  Prime ex:

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See sites like gamespot have pics of games, like gt4 at a larger res than the game has intended. A 312x240 gt4 pic does not look good when blown up to the ps2's normal res format,  640x520.  See, when the devs post pics, they are not the same size as they are on some sites.  Also, pics of games while they are in motion are sometimes taken from analog tv, you will not get all the data you would see in real time.  Most likely, the cam will capture a frame where only the positive scan lines have been framed and not the negative.  This leads to the apperance of jaggies where you would hardly see them in real time.  So I suggest everyone go by dev pics, not site pics since they screw em up. 

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Remember when I said, most pics from devs arent the same size as the ones on sites?

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Prime ex:

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Now there are some pics that are at the ps2's res format, like this

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or this

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Basically, this is how good the game will look while in motion.  So ppl who say these pics are doctored are fools or misinformed.  The killzone devs know this to, look at their pics

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Can you honestly say you see a jag? 

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btw, special thxs for antde2001 who taught me this, the guy is a smart man and he'll own you if you dont know what you are talking about   Think the canyon in gt4 is a photo, pm him and get owned, get ohiowned.

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So, give the gaming sites the finger and give the devs the thumbs up

Message Edited by cobragt on 04-29-2004 08:43 PM

[multimediaman]

the first picture you posted was at 720x480 (well, 479, but close enough)

anyway, the highest resolution standard televisions show is 720x486... that is what resolution our school is using to print our demo reels to tape as well...

so naturally, someone capturing a screenshot from the game, if their capture device is good enough, is going to be getting 720x486 images, or 720x480 images, it depends on the program capturing the images as well as the hardware. That explains why the Gamespot picture you posted is so big... btw, a non-widescreen tv is 640x480...



now... I've heard quite a few people talk about jaggies being more evident in screenshots than in the actual game... if you will remember my discussions on fields and all that stuff, that pretty much explains why there is more pixelation. if your capture device is top-of-the-line, your going to get a screen with fields visible in it. In otherwords, it'll look like crud unless you use photoshop or some other means to de-interlace the picture. Well, when you de-interlace the picture, you're taking every other line, in a scanline pattern, and copying it down to the pixels below the scanlines you took samples from. this in return makes the image look like it was 720x243 and then scaled 200% taller. so yes, harsh lines that look like bad anti-aliasing are going to be somewhat more noticeable.

in case anyone was wondering, fields are what enables 60-fps viewing on your tv. Ever wondered why some text, lines, or other graphics on a television seem to flicker and bounce around? that's because they're broadcasting an image that isn't properly formatted for fields... or that are too high resolution for tv... if there's a line that's only 1 pixel tall, it's going to seem to appear and disappear rapidly

but anyway, fields enable the 60-fps beacuse each image outputted to the television contains two frames... and based on my experience, lower feilds are rendered first by the tv, then upper feilds... so a video tape would have 30 frames per second, but the pictures are formatted so that the tv shows 60 frames per second, if that makes sense

this is also why no video game console will ever show stuff as smoothly as a computer can heh, unless hdtv's work more like a computer monitor

... anyway, back to my thoughts about what you've said...

I'm not sure about the ps2 using 640x520 images... that 4:3.25 ratio doesn't sound right... I doubt the ps2 outputs at anything different than 720x480, 720x486, 640x480, or 640x486, unless you're in HDTV modes...


also, no capture device that I know of can capture the stuff with absolutely no quality loss... so not only do you have the fields junk, but you've also got a bit less quality in the image as well. Whereas the developers can just take the game on the computers they've been developing it on, take a render from their 3d software, and release that, giving you shots like that one bamboo shot from gt4, or those shots of the cars in the tunnel in gta3, which there was also a wireframe render of that same picture

and that killzone pic...

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cobragt wrote:

Can you honestly say you see a jag?

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I'm sorry, but I see jags all over the place heh... fortunately none of them are really big enough to matter that much.

[cobragt~]

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,multimediaman wrote:


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,cobragt wrote:
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Can you honestly say you see a jag?,

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I'm sorry, but I see jags all over the place heh... fortunately none of them are really big enough to matter that much.
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I see the little jaggies, but you would have to really look closely to see them.  I'll just go with a dev's capture, instead of a gaming site's capture.  Gamespot has it bad when it comes to pics, they make all of the ps2 games look like ass.
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[CurtisMonks~]

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,cobragt wrote:

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,multimediaman wrote:


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,cobragt wrote:
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Can you honestly say you see a jag?,

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I'm sorry, but I see jags all over the place heh... fortunately none of them are really big enough to matter that much.
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I see the little jaggies, but you would have to really look closely to see them.  I'll just go with a dev's capture, instead of a gaming site's capture.  Gamespot has it bad when it comes to pics, they make all of the ps2 games look like ass.
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,When I looked at the image, it seemed to be jaggy from the start, without looking too hard. It can't compare to the actual thing, IMO. You'd think gaming websites would actually care about the games they are posting about, and not take crappy jaggy screenshots. That GT4 screenshot looks disgusting!