Reply
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 04/10/2009
Offline
4933 posts
 

Re: Sexuality in Video Games: How Much is Too Much?

Sep 10, 2010

way i look at it theres a rating system for a reason if there parents dont like all the nudity and sex in a game dont let your kid buy it or play it. simple as that

Please use plain text.
Message 11 of 49 (268 Views)
0 Likes
PlayStation MVP
Registered: 04/18/2007
Offline
11160 posts
 

Re: Sexuality in Video Games: How Much is Too Much?

Sep 10, 2010

jma1024 wrote:

way i look at it theres a rating system for a reason if there parents dont like all the nudity and sex in a game dont let your kid buy it or play it. simple as that


It would be nice if it was simply "simple as that".


There aren't many AO games on the consoles. (I know one or two got that rating before it was released but the developers removed or edited the content.) For the most part an AO rating can doom a game. Few retailers that I know of will carry an AO game. I'm pretty sure Wal-Mart, Target, and Best Buy in particular have all said in the past they will not carry an AO game on their shelves.


Surprisingly, many parents are still relatively clueless as to what the ratings mean, or at the very least, don't care what their children are playing, so long as the child leaves them A-L-O-N-E. (As a parent, believe me, there are days I wish my daughter would leave me in peace.) I have seen parents tell their child "No" on a game, listened as their child cried at the top of their lungs for half an hour before the parent caves in, buys it, just to shut the child up.


However, more and more parents are gamers now than there used to be. More of us grew up on gaming. We know what the ratings are. But even so, some parents don't mind if their child goes around playing Call of Duty online at 10pm, cussing up a storm. After all, it's only a game.


Thankfully my daughter doesn't want to play those kind of games.

Please use plain text.
Message 12 of 49 (268 Views)
0 Likes
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 11/20/2008
Offline
5451 posts
 

Re: Sexuality in Video Games: How Much is Too Much?

Sep 10, 2010

Also, to add to PapaWarlock's post above (which was spot on), retailer's that WOULD sell AO games can not be monitored every hour of every business day. Many do not ID buyers for M rated games. As a matter of fact, as I posted earlier, I know a child as young as 11 that was given money to go to Gamestop and purchased GTA4 without any questions asked.

 

Without proper enforcement, the rating system is mostly pointless. The rating system is great for informing parents, but children will always find a way to gain access to what's forbidden. Just look at R-Rated films. Not too hard to get a kid in that theater, is it?

Please use plain text.
Message 13 of 49 (268 Views)
0 Likes
PlayStation MVP
Registered: 07/30/2007
Online
3976 posts
 

Re: Sexuality in Video Games: How Much is Too Much?

Sep 10, 2010

PapaWarlock wrote:

jma1024 wrote:

way i look at it theres a rating system for a reason if there parents dont like all the nudity and sex in a game dont let your kid buy it or play it. simple as that


It would be nice if it was simply "simple as that".


There aren't many AO games on the consoles. (I know one or two got that rating before it was released but the developers removed or edited the content.) For the most part an AO rating can doom a game. Few retailers that I know of will carry an AO game. I'm pretty sure Wal-Mart, Target, and Best Buy in particular have all said in the past they will not carry an AO game on their shelves.


Surprisingly, many parents are still relatively clueless as to what the ratings mean, or at the very least, don't care what their children are playing, so long as the child leaves them A-L-O-N-E. (As a parent, believe me, there are days I wish my daughter would leave me in peace.) I have seen parents tell their child "No" on a game, listened as their child cried at the top of their lungs for half an hour before the parent caves in, buys it, just to shut the child up.


However, more and more parents are gamers now than there used to be. More of us grew up on gaming. We know what the ratings are. But even so, some parents don't mind if their child goes around playing Call of Duty online at 10pm, cussing up a storm. After all, it's only a game.


Thankfully my daughter doesn't want to play those kind of games.



I doubt any kind of rating system will work with parents who just cave in, and/or let their kids play whatever they want.  On the other hand, does an average middle aged housewife know what the rating system means?  If not, then I'm sure something can be done to make an improvement in that regard.  I think everyone who buys games, whether for themselves, or someone else, should at least have an idea as to what exactly they're buying.  That's one loophole in the rating system that I think can and should be dealt with.

 

 


Amir29 wrote:

Also, to add to PapaWarlock's post above (which was spot on), retailer's that WOULD sell AO games can not be monitored every hour of every business day. Many do not ID buyers for M rated games. As a matter of fact, as I posted earlier, I know a child as young as 11 that was given money to go to Gamestop and purchased GTA4 without any questions asked.

 

Without proper enforcement, the rating system is mostly pointless. The rating system is great for informing parents, but children will always find a way to gain access to what's forbidden. Just look at R-Rated films. Not too hard to get a kid in that theater, is it?


  True, there will always be some kind of loophole, regardless of how good a rating system is.  But from what I've observed, the movie rating system is enforced fairly well(maybe not always perfect, but a great improvement over the ESRB).  Although there is a Future Shop that always IDs me for M rated games(I got IDed on Tuesday).  I'm 22, but I look younger, and I don't mind having to show a piece of plastic if it means they're doing a good job of enforcing the ESRB.  Besides, looking younger will be an advantage when I'm 40 and don't look 40. 

 

Please use plain text.
Message 14 of 49 (268 Views)
0 Likes
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 11/20/2008
Offline
5451 posts
 

Re: Sexuality in Video Games: How Much is Too Much?

Sep 24, 2010

 

Spoiler

Aeternitas33 wrote:

Although Catherine is an Action-Adventure game, since it’s being produced by the noted RPG publisher Atlus I will naturally be taking a close interest in this title if it gets released in North America. But whether it will be released or not is anyone’s guess at this point. One the one hand I could point out that Atlus is known for making RPGs, not Eroge. On the other hand, this game seems to have received a C rating by Japan’s Computer Entertainment Rating Organization (CERO), and it would be naïve to assume that that automatically translates to a T rating by North America’s Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB), because what the CERO considers suitable content for a 15 year old Japanese youth may not equate with what the ESRB considers suitable content for a 13 year old North American child. The ESRB could just as easily give the game an M rating as a T rating, and from what I’ve seen thus far (cheese pizza anyone?) most likely will give it an M rating.

 

Is this fair? Well, yes. North America is not Japan. However, I don’t think the issue is simply that of videogames being considered “children’s games.” Although our culture has changed tremendously since the “Sexual Revolution” of the 1960s, compared to other societies - especially those of France and Japan for example - Americans are still rather puritanical with regards to sexuality. Issues that impact upon children are especially sensitive, yes, but there’s also a wide range of adult sexual issues that simply never get addressed, or even acknowledged, in our culture.

 

As to where I think we’re heading in the future, or where I think we should be heading, I would say that I would definitely like to see the development of games geared more towards “adults,” and I’m not necessarily referring to sexual content (although that is a part of it). In the RPG forum, it’s long been recognized that RPGs really need to move beyond the stereotypical “band of teenagers out to save the world,” so for that reason alone, I have to applaud Atlus for pushing the boundary in terms of game development.

 

In my view however, the real issue has less to do with specific content and more to do with age appropriate game restrictions. For example, despite its commercial success and critical acclaim from gaming sites, GTA: San Andreas, like all of the other GTA games, was not taken seriously by the wider (non-gaming) North American culture. With its cop-killing, drug-running, car-stealing game play, it was considered to be a game that appealed to adolescents. Therefore the “Hot Coffee” scandal was seen as yet another example of Rockstar thumbing its nose at the non-gaming community while trying to titillate adolescent gamers. And lets face it, leaving that code in the published game was either unbelievably stupid, deliberately calculated, or both, because anyone with the least amount of knowledge of how PC games are modded knows that that code was going to be discovered and patched the moment the game was released. This is why, until they released Red Dead Redemption, Rockstar used to be the company I loved to hate.

 

On the other hand, Heavy Rain was seen as a serious and mature game that appealed to adults, so any sexual content was evaluated in that context. This isn’t a double standard. Games targeted towards children are necessarily going to be evaluated under different standards from those targeted towards adults – and this is how it should be. So, to answer your question more directly, I don’t have a problem with “scantily-clad anime maidens” or even “passionate lovemaking scene”, as long as the games are rated appropriately and kept out of the hands of children.

 

As I’ve grown older, I’ve become more and more uncomfortable with any attempt to limit freedom of speech. As Evelyn Beatrice Hall stated, “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” And since I consider video games to be works of art; it follows that I’m opposed on principle to any attempt to censor videogame content. That said, I recognize that it does take a certain amount of maturity to deal with certain types of content, which is why I feel that having age-appropriate ratings – and more importantly, enforcing them in a credible manner – is the key to the future growth of the videogame market.

 

To give one example, I’ve never really cared for FPSs myself, but I’ve had friends tell me that if it wasn’t for FPSs they’d be in prison – meaning, I suppose, that the games acted as a cathartic for them. However, using a videogame in this manner takes a certain amount of psychological maturity, which is why age-appropriate ratings are so important. And of course this also requires parents who are involved and informed as to their children’s activities.

 

Similarly, I’m sure most everyone on these forums is aware that there’s entire categories of games produced in Japan that aren’t being localized to North America because of their sexual content. Will this ever change? Well, certainly not in the foreseeable future, but I believe that a dialogue such as this one is a necessary first step towards such change.  We, as gamers, need to be proactive in educating non-gamers, developers, and even lawmakers that we would like to see videogames accepted as a legitimate art form – a story-telling medium no different from books or songs or movies. Once that happens our North American developers will have a freer hand to develop games as they wish, and we won’t have to sit around wondering if a game like Catherine will ever make it to our shores.  


 

EXCELLENT POST! Kudos to you!

 

However, though I am very much against censorship, (as I stated earlier) I feel this kind of censorship helps gamers more than it harms them. Once we say there's "No Limit", how long will it take for publishers to jump on the highest profit genre in media's history? How long until we see games starring Jenna Jameson?

 

The problem isn't really just in the content or the rating system for me. The problem is in the lack of ethics in our capitalist society. When a publisher sees a genre that is extremely low risk with an extremely high profit margin, there's no doubt they will begin to focus on those genres. Once that happens, I fear we'll be sacrificing the man power and development time, and massive budgets required for our AAA games. 

Please use plain text.
Message 15 of 49 (268 Views)
0 Likes
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/11/2009
Offline
6519 posts
 

Re: Sexuality in Video Games: How Much is Too Much?

Oct 7, 2010
heavy rain shower scene raises the issue lol but we gotta remember its only pixels and the real thing is only a click away on the net for most people so in video games should it really matter ovbiously age restrict it but should the content within it matter that much when there is worse on the net ?
Please use plain text.
Message 16 of 49 (268 Views)
0 Likes
PlayStation MVP
Registered: 02/04/2003
Offline
7195 posts
 

Re: Sexuality in Video Games: How Much is Too Much?

Oct 12, 2010

First of all, I'd like to say this is a great topic, Weidle.

 

I will start off by saying that I believe Americans have an extremely backwards viewpoint on how sexuality works and the impacts that it actually has on people. Americans think viewing sexuality inherently makes the people watching more sexual, which is absolute foolishness. Similarly, parents oftentimes shelter their children from all violence/sex/profanity to the point that when they are 25 they are just beginning to understand sexuality because they were living under a rock for their entire life. Not a good way to be an intelligent person. Sheltering people from things isn't preventing them from happening, it's just delaying the inevitable. Sexuality is built into human nature, as is some degrees of anger and violence (it's all basic emotions) - so trying to cover them up is a losing battle.

 

Also, obvious to most people over the age of 13 is the fact that American media is filled to the brim with female sexuality being seen as normal and "OK" in some sense, while male nudity is an absolute monstrosity. At Mardi Gras, it's legal for women to basically take their shirts off but if a man does the same thing with his pants - it's straight to the prison cell. I don't really see how different kinds of nudity are more or less profane. Nude is nude to me.

 

All throughout video game history female characters are dressed in some of the most sexually charged outfits you could possibly imagine. I sense that some of the reasoning behind this is the fact that more men play video games than women. And what do (most) men like? Scantily clad women, of course! That being said, the straight male kind of "rules" the video game world in a large sense. A lot of games are tailored to their specific likes, and if any game comes out that doesn't involve attractive women, playing as a macho man hero, or blowing things up, it's instantly labeled as a video game failure (or a game for gay guys and women). Final Fantasy X-2. I cannot name one straight guy who liked playing as a woman for an entire game. A lot of girls however seem to like the game a lot.

 

Like it or not, video games and masculine/feminine traits link directly back to real life. Straight guys have Halo parties, drink Mountain Dew and Beer and then watch WWE on tv. They don't call each other up for a rousing game of Kingdom Hearts. Video games themselves kind of have a "sexuality" in that they are either inherently more masculine or feminine, and tend to attract people of the same sexual dominance.

 

I for one believe sexuality is inherent to humanity and there is no reason that it shouldn't be displayed in video games; I do however, think America needs to get over it's Shelter-The-Children complex as well as it's Afraid-Of-Male-Sexuality complex.

Please use plain text.
Message 17 of 49 (268 Views)
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/11/2009
Offline
6519 posts
 

Re: Sexuality in Video Games: How Much is Too Much?

Oct 12, 2010
i have a furthering question to this topic would sexuality in videos games put you off buying a game you were a fan of
Please use plain text.
Message 18 of 49 (268 Views)
0 Likes
Survivor
Registered: 05/31/2005
Offline
2844 posts
 

Re: Sexuality in Video Games: How Much is Too Much?

Oct 15, 2010

I dont believe any kind of content in any video game, work of art, movie, show, anything, etc, should ever be censored. If the individual is a child then it is up to the parents to decide what the kid should be exposed to, but other than that its up to you as an adult as to what you want to see or not see.

 

You either choose to see the content or you dont. It is as simple as that.


Please use plain text.
Message 19 of 49 (268 Views)
0 Likes
PlayStation MVP
Registered: 04/18/2007
Offline
11160 posts
 

Re: Sexuality in Video Games: How Much is Too Much?

Oct 17, 2010

 


godsgift1888 wrote:
i have a furthering question to this topic would sexuality in videos games put you off buying a game you were a fan of

 

It would depend on how it was done. The God of War series is well known for it's Sex-Mini game which rewards you with a good amount of red orbs (experience points) and repeated efforts do not get rewarded. I know BioWare's games this generation are filled with "dating" mini games. Eventually leading to a rather suggestive (but censored) cut scene where the two characters remove most of their clothing, a bit of kissing and then "the morning after".

 

That doesn't bother me and likely wouldn't bother me if it was a full blown sexual encounter. But as I mentioned, it depends on how it's done. If done as part of the story line, a one time deal basically each play through, it wouldn't really bother me. After all it is a part of life. But if it was excessive then I would likely not get the game. By this I mean picking up hookers on the corner, teammates, or storyline girlfriends and engaging in sex any time you wanted, then I would not get the game, even if I was a fan of the series. 

 

But that is only a personal choice. I don't say that because I find the topic offensive, but just because it's not what I want in my games.

Please use plain text.
Message 20 of 49 (268 Views)
0 Likes