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PlayStation MVP
Registered: 10/02/2008
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Re: Are our grammar skills declining?

Apr 7, 2014

PLYMCO_PILGRIM wrote:

mbob-maul wrote:

semajmarc87 wrote:

It's amazing the amount of arrogant pride that some people show in the rhythmic sound waves that come from their vibrating vocal cords and the patterns of scribbles used to invoke particular thoughts in the cerebral cortex of the recipient.


While I am sure some people here are like that, I do not think that is the overall point. 

 

Our writing is very important when it comes to gaining respect. If your spelling is terrible, then people will assume you are not the smartest of people. If your grammar makes it impossible to see your point, it tarnishes your image even more. 

 

Obviously we all make mistakes grammatically and within our spelling. That is a given. But to say that having or respecting good grammar is simply arrogant pride seems unfair.

 

Grammar, like one's clothing, conveys a certain message. And it is important and advantageous to control that message you give out. Make sure to shower. Make sure to maintain your appearance. Try to spell decently. It is all important.


 

Bob, before you told me otherwise I assumed you were in your 30's or older.   Take one guess why?   It was due to your writing style on the forums.   


I think I should have maintained that appearance. It would set everybody up for the surprise that is my voice.


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PlayStation MVP
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Re: Are our grammar skills declining?

[ Edited ]
Apr 8, 2014

semajmarc87 wrote:

It's amazing the amount of arrogant pride that some people show in the rhythmic sound waves that come from their vibrating vocal cords and the patterns of scribbles used to invoke particular thoughts in the cerebral cortex of the recipient.


Do you realize that one of the ways we distinguish ourselves from other lower life forms, is language and writing ability? If aliens were to descend from space and assess our civilization based on what they found on the internet, they wouldn't believe that we've achieved anything even remotely close to launching a man into space, let alone walking upright. 

 

"Arrogance"  is believing it is permissable to butcher the English languag, thinking that "diz izn scholl". 

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Fender Bender
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Re: Are our grammar skills declining?

Apr 8, 2014

All_Purp wrote:
My grammar is fine but my spelling is a whole other story. Once upon a time I was an excellent speller.

Maybe it was all that purp...

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Re: Are our grammar skills declining?

[ Edited ]
Apr 8, 2014

Publishers have heaping slush piles of manuscripts with proper spelling and grammar, but  if you’re boring and pretentious all the grammar and spelling in the world isn’t going to matter,,, some of the best words I have ever read are from cats and dogs...

dog homework.jpg

 

 

On a more serious note,,, judging people by their grammar or speech such as 'Ghetto People' is ridiculous for the simple fact that maybe its a matter of survival and fitting in... I would imagine a 'Ghetto Person'  would get knocked out daily if he or she spoke like the King or Queen of England.

 

I find it's easier to adapt to people,,, I try to help some with their spelling and grammar and if they don't want the help then so be it, it doesn't make them any less of a person, just different.

 

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Fender Bender
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Re: Are our grammar skills declining?

Apr 8, 2014
The English language is stupid and is one of the hardest ones master.
French is much easier.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Are our grammar skills declining?

Apr 8, 2014

S0UTHERN_C0MF0RT wrote:
Is our society's grammar and knowledge of properly writing declining? Before the year 2000, a general consensus might have been established that our society's grammar and knowledge of proper writing mechanics was not declining; however, with the introduction of text messaging, instant messaging, smart phones, and the like, quick and convenient conversing methods have arisen.

A study done by Penn State found that tweens who text and use instant messaging more than tweens that do not are more likely to have worse grammar and language skills. Some teachers have even reported that some of their students might include words like "LOL" (which is a 'techspeak' abbreviation for "laugh out loud") or add smiley faces at the end of some sentences.

It is possible that the millennial generation is too young for adequate testing to be done, but researches have found that personality habits began to solidify at the age of twelve. Apart from those beliefs, what are your beliefs on this matter? Do you think our society's grammar and language skills are declining in the wake of text messaging, instant messaging, and other convenient conversation formats?

Took the words right out of my mouth. As soon as I saw the title to this post that came to mind. I also blame the English language it's too complicated just too many words and how to pronounce them.

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Re: Are our grammar skills declining?

Apr 8, 2014

LiLBlueEyes wrote:

Publishers have heaping slush piles of manuscripts with proper spelling and grammar, but  if you’re boring and pretentious all the grammar and spelling in the world isn’t going to matter,,, some of the best words I have ever read are from cats and dogs...

 

 

 

On a more serious note,,, judging people by their grammar or speech such as 'Ghetto People' is ridiculous for the simple fact that maybe its a matter of survival and fitting in... I would imagine a 'Ghetto Person'  would get knocked out daily if he or she spoke like the King or Queen of England.

 

I find it's easier to adapt to people,,, I try to help some with their spelling and grammar and if they don't want the help then so be it, it doesn't make them any less of a person, just different.

 


That is just silly. Someone speaking decent English in ghetto areas will not get them beaten up. That is not survival. That is a dialect that is prominent in ghetto areas. It is much more likely that they are surrounded by poor grammar and adopt it. Similar to any other sort of accent or dialect. 

 

And nobody is saying they are not people.


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Welcoming Committee
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Re: Are our grammar skills declining?

Apr 8, 2014

S0UTHERN_C0MF0RT wrote:
Is our society's grammar and knowledge of properly writing declining? Before the year 2000, a general consensus might have been established that our society's grammar and knowledge of proper writing mechanics was not declining; 

I don't see any particular reason why people before 2000 would come to a consensus that grammar skills are not declining.  What was so special about 2000?   I don't understand why you would pick that year out of the blue.

 

Peoples' grammar skills are definitely declining.  And yes, you could atribute a lot of that to texting.  But really when you take a step back and look at the larger picture, is that what's really going on?

 

Texting is like poetry.  Poetry in its purest form is the art of putting the most meaning into the fewest words.  Most of you have seen me ramble on with a wall-o-text to illustrate a point.  That's not poetry.  It's applying a systematic and detailed description of whatever I was trying to describe or convey.  Poetry uses a few well-chosen words that convey a greater meaning than the sum of the words alone.  Why type out the word "you" when "U" conveys the same meaning?  When texting, you have very real constraints upon the length of your message.  You're forced to use a form of shorthand to make it fit.  But these are not random strings of gibberish.  The person receiving the text must understand what lol, h8r, and w/e mean for the message to be conveyed.

 

Texting does follow a set of rules.  These are not the same rules used for writing a college essay, but they are rules.  If there were no rules, then all meaning would be lost, all texts would be pointless, and texting would cease altogether.  Court stenographers use a set of rules when they record the statements spoken in a courtroom.  The rules are unique to stenographers, and indeed their output looks like so much gibberish to the untrained eye.  The same goes for shorthand, if anyone still uses that.

 

So long as texting language remains within texts, everything shousd be fine.  People whould know how to text AND know how to use proper grammar.  I wouldn't expect shorthand or stenography to appear in a college essay, but they would be just as confusing in a text message.  Keep the format where it applies.

 

There are two powerful drivers here making it difficult to preserve "proper grammar".

 

1. Technological change.  20 years ago, nobody texted.  Now just about everyone does.  Normal grammar rules don't apply.  I certainly wouldn't be able to convey all of this post into a readable text message.  In the last 10 years, MySpace has already gone from the Next Big Thing to Yesterday's News.  This pace is rapid and unrelenting.  It's not likely to slow down any time soon.

 

2. Language change.  Not only are the media used to transmit information changing, but also the content of the messages.  Every year, thousands of new words are added to the dictionary.  A year ago, I never heard of a "Vine".  Webster has recently added "Do'oh!" into the dictionary, after the common Homer Simpson outburst.  Imagine someone 20 years ago saying, "I emailed you a link to a Twitter feed I googled after watching someone's YouTube favorites."  That sentence would have made no sense at all.

 

People are doing what people do.  They're adapting to a rapidly-changing language using rapidly-changing technology.  Standards of speech aren't set by some old people in a university somewhere.  They're created and discarded on the fly, based on trending events, someone famous saying something quotable ("I'm Winning" - Charlie Sheen) or through sheer force of will.

 

Some terms catch on like ROFL.  Some never do, like GOL (Giggling Out Loud).  Overused sayings in the new media often become "memes", which are parodies of themselves.  It's a very complex process, with its own set of rules for establishing, using, lampooning, and discarding words.  It works, because it's so dynamic and flexible.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Are our grammar skills declining?

Apr 8, 2014

Pinktoe_ wrote:
The English language is stupid and is one of the hardest ones master.
French is much easier.

You should come and visit me here in Finland. :smileyvery-happy:




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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Are our grammar skills declining?

Apr 8, 2014
@LiLBlueEyes

I see no noteworthy correlation between "boring and pretentious" and proper spelling and grammar. While true that proper spelling and grammar can still be boring and pretentious, it's equally true that horrible spelling and grammar can be boring and pretentious.

If I could only be skilled at one thing I'd rather it be content than the ability to convey said content, but I see no reason why one wouldn't want to be skilled at both.
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