Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Do you mean 
Reply
Fender Bender
Registered: 06/20/2009
Offline
4175 posts
 

Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Feb 1, 2011

manolynx wrote:

ziggurcat wrote:

DJ_Oedipus wrote:

ziggurcat wrote:

actually, the DMCA is quite clear on what is legal and illegal. 

If the DMCA was so clear Viacom wouldn't of gotten in trouble for blanketting YouTube with DMCA notifications.  Apple wouldn't have put a DMCA notice to Bluwiki for reverse engineering Apple's sync.  There are allot of other cases that have usually been dropped before they reached a court decision.  I think almost everyone can agree that the DMCA in general has been abused by both sides of the fence from producers to consumers.

i suppose that's true, but sony hasn't/isn't abusing the DMCA in this case.

That is possibly true. But, I can see others falling into some of the exceptions of the DMCA. It really falls to to the courts to determine who is in the right. The DMCA needs to be updated to fit the times.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
You can make the ps3 do anything, google is your friend. Firmware can brick hardware, don't believe differently, look at fw 2.40 ... As a rule of caution, wait for others to update before you do...

Lost PS3 Features I Use Due To Useless Updates: OtherOS, Backwards Compatibility (lost in newer PS3 models due to hardware updates), Minor 3rd party controller support

i agree.

but so far the courts are finding in favour of sony. 

Please use plain text.
Message 2261 of 2,398 (5 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Fender Bender
Registered: 07/30/2005
Offline
2966 posts
 

Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Feb 1, 2011

Ok after reading that posted documents i will sum things up for you to help let you know whats going on. The recent listing details the rights and wrongs or how a product is marketed and if a consumer has been decived in the purchase they have made. The documents give many examples of how different companies mis represented the items they where selling. Like for the example in the documents the kwickset locks where they said the locks where made in the usa, but in fact most of the parts where made from other places around the world and then assembled here in the US. The makers of the locks lost due to missadvertizing what went in the making of the locks. I can give more examples but you can read them for your self if you want to read through 50+ pages. Well in the end its says that products are sold by the labling that is on the package and that because of the past lawsuits companies are more specifc on what they list on the packaging and also in those examples of lawsuits it is pointed out on how the ppl won based on the loss of money and property due to misslabling.

Well i can say that this is interesting and all but i know sony is going to point out a few things.

1. Even though the customer bought the ps3, it is stated clearly on the box that the customer only owns the hardware and sony owns the software. So this establishes who owns what, and based on the past lawsuits listed in the document it clearly says the property owner should show evidence of loss of money or property. Well in this case since the other os feature is owned by sony due to copyright laws they are not complaining, only the customers are, but the customer dont have any say because the lawsuits in the document that was submitted never deal with any copyright content. See all the examples are based on things that the ppl own and nothing on what is partial owned  where there is hardware and software through copyrights dealing with agreements. So in this case the hardware the customer bought is not losing anything that they paid for so no loss of money or property can be applied here. As in the other os feature being removed was sony removing a feature from the software sony owns, also ppl cant say that losing access from the psn is a loss of money or property since sony owns the psn. Also If a person chose to not update means they chose to no longer get support for the ps3 and to keep the ps3 in the state that it currently is in. As in keeping the other os means the loss of access to the psn and the ability to not play future content that the customer has not bought yet and the customer was warned that they can still play the content they have that does not requier future updates, so again they didnt lose money or property if they chose to not update.

But i know right now your going to say that you own warhawk and can no longer play online. But again to play online customer had to agree to the conditions of the psn to play the game and in that agreement the customer takes full responsability to keep following the rules of the psn to play the content. Sony is not held responsable for content the customer cant access because the customer refuses to update. And this doesnt fall in the loss of money or property catagory if the game and psn service are owned by sony and you the customer are only given a software license to play the content that you dont own. And because the custoemr refuses to update means they no longer want to play that content that requires the psn.

2. What is mostly trying to be pointed out is who owns what, who has a right to complain and is there proper complaint of loss of money or property. And was the ps3 mis marketed? Well from what is there sony didnt miss market the ps3 at all, it had everything the customer wanted and had it there for a very long time, but they also had it in the agreement that sony had every right to change or remove any feature in the ps3.

This will be the big one to deal with in the courts where sony will have to bring in where they own the software and the agreements ppl agreed to when using the software and sony has to prove they did nothing to the hardware.

I can keep going if you wanty but i just wanted to give the detals more in a nutshell.

_____________________________________________________
Opinion:
Everyone has their own opinion. The people you interact with in a community come from all walks of life, many different religions and beliefs, different family income levels, different points of view on many of today's hot topics of discussion. In a nutshell, each person is entitled to his or her own opinion. Discussion about it is the best thing to do, after all that's what communities are for. If it turns into some kind of sparring match, agree to disagree and move on.
Please use plain text.
Message 2262 of 2,398 (5 Views)
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 12/21/2009
Offline
1475 posts
 

Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Feb 1, 2011

oops wrong Link

I meant to ask what does it mean when SCEA Concedes....

A.

SCEA Has Conceded That Document Request No. 1 Seeking Production of “All Documents” is

Overbroad, Burdensome, Oppressive and Untenable.

II.

ARGUMENT

A.

SCEA Has Conceded That Document Request No. 1 Seeking Production of “All

Documents” is Overbroad, Burdensome, Oppressive and Untenable.

Contrary to SCEA’s Opposition, its previous withdrawal of Document Request No. 1 was

conditioned upon Plaintiffs’ agreement to, “produce documents responsive to the remainder of SCEA’s

document requests.” See December 1, 2010 Ott E-mail, attached as Ex. L to Rivas Decl. Having

realized the overbroad, oppressiveness and harassing nature of this request seeking “ALL DOCUMENT

CONCERNING Sony, SCEA, and/or the PS3” SCEA has now agreed to withdraw this request without

conditions. Accordingly, Plaintiffs seek an order confirming that a response to Document Request No. 1

is unnecessary.

I guess what I am asking is Conceding the same as , admitting to something that they did was wrong?

eh we are talking anout the other OS case I hope.

SCEA’s decision to implement Update 3.21 placed Plaintiffs and Class members in a “Hobson’s Choice.” PS3 owners who chose not to install Update 3.21 could no longer access
many of the other important PS3 features including the PSN, the ability to play games online, the ability to access online features, or the ability to play newer PS3 games and/or Blu-ray discs that required Update 3.21. On the other hand, PS3 owners who did install Update 3.21 lost all access to the computer functionality of the PS3’s “Other OS” feature.
Please use plain text.
Message 2263 of 2,398 (5 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Fender Bender
Registered: 07/30/2005
Offline
2966 posts
 

Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Feb 1, 2011

curiousecat wrote:

oops wrong Link

I meant to ask what does it mean when SCEA Concedes....

A.

SCEA Has Conceded That Document Request No. 1 Seeking Production of “All Documents” is

Overbroad, Burdensome, Oppressive and Untenable.

II.

ARGUMENT

A.

SCEA Has Conceded That Document Request No. 1 Seeking Production of “All

Documents” is Overbroad, Burdensome, Oppressive and Untenable.

Contrary to SCEA’s Opposition, its previous withdrawal of Document Request No. 1 was

conditioned upon Plaintiffs’ agreement to, “produce documents responsive to the remainder of SCEA’s

document requests.” See December 1, 2010 Ott E-mail, attached as Ex. L to Rivas Decl. Having

realized the overbroad, oppressiveness and harassing nature of this request seeking “ALL DOCUMENT

CONCERNING Sony, SCEA, and/or the PS3” SCEA has now agreed to withdraw this request without

conditions. Accordingly, Plaintiffs seek an order confirming that a response to Document Request No. 1

is unnecessary.

I guess what I am asking is Conceding the same as , admitting to something that they did was wrong?

eh we are talking anout the other OS case I hope.

"We were taught to respect authority, and parents and, basically, everything," he said. "And, in my opinion, that's one of the most basic things that has changed in our society: People don't have much respect for anything. They use foul and vulgar language. Violence is -- it fills all the movies. It's hard to watch a movie that's not filled with violence and vulgarity and bleep." Pima County Sheriff C. D.


Provide me a link to the original document and i will help tell you whats going on.

_____________________________________________________
Opinion:
Everyone has their own opinion. The people you interact with in a community come from all walks of life, many different religions and beliefs, different family income levels, different points of view on many of today's hot topics of discussion. In a nutshell, each person is entitled to his or her own opinion. Discussion about it is the best thing to do, after all that's what communities are for. If it turns into some kind of sparring match, agree to disagree and move on.
Please use plain text.
Message 2264 of 2,398 (5 Views)
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 05/08/2007
Offline
1656 posts
 

Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Feb 1, 2011

Correct me if I am wrong but when I bought my launch PS3 otherOS was not there was it?  Didnt it come in an update?  Im not saying that it would decide the case Im just wondering because I saw a few people say they bought launch consoles just for otherOS and I was pretty sure it came in a later update.

Please use plain text.
Message 2265 of 2,398 (5 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 05/08/2007
Offline
1656 posts
 

Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Feb 1, 2011

Naquiel wrote:

"We were taught to respect authority, and parents and, basically, everything," he said. "And, in my opinion, that's one of the most basic things that has changed in our society: People don't have much respect for anything. They use foul and vulgar language. Violence is -- it fills all the movies. It's hard to watch a movie that's not filled with violence and vulgarity and bleep." Pima County Sheriff C. D.


Provide me a link to the original document and i will help tell you whats going on.

_____________________________________________________
Opinion:
Everyone has their own opinion. The people you interact with in a community come from all walks of life, many different religions and beliefs, different family income levels, different points of view on many of today's hot topics of discussion. In a nutshell, each person is entitled to his or her own opinion. Discussion about it is the best thing to do, after all that's what communities are for. If it turns into some kind of sparring match, agree to disagree and move on.

I just wanted to say thank you for clearing up these documents when they get posted.  It can be a little confusing at times.

Please use plain text.
Message 2266 of 2,398 (5 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Fender Bender
Registered: 07/30/2005
Offline
2966 posts
 

Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Feb 1, 2011

oneDMAC wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong but when I bought my launch PS3 otherOS was not there was it?  Didnt it come in an update?  Im not saying that it would decide the case Im just wondering because I saw a few people say they bought launch consoles just for otherOS and I was pretty sure it came in a later update.


Correct, when the ps3 was launched it did not come with the other os feature and was added later in a update. Wich this sets a precidence that the price of the ps3 was the price it was with or without the other os feature. So if ppl claim that they paid for the other os feature cant because sony sold the ps3 with the same price with or without the feature. Just like sony doesnt set the price higher with each new feature they add or change or remove. Wich means sony owns the software and they make changes to the software at their own discression and money from their own pockets. Call the features sony gives as a perk as long as sony wants it on the software.

_____________________________________________________
Opinion:
Everyone has their own opinion. The people you interact with in a community come from all walks of life, many different religions and beliefs, different family income levels, different points of view on many of today's hot topics of discussion. In a nutshell, each person is entitled to his or her own opinion. Discussion about it is the best thing to do, after all that's what communities are for. If it turns into some kind of sparring match, agree to disagree and move on.
Please use plain text.
Message 2267 of 2,398 (5 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 12/21/2009
Offline
1475 posts
 

Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Feb 1, 2011

That was the original link..they just pulled but I have something else that may help

This is super freaky wierd. its there but then again it is not there.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/3:2010cv01811/226894/144/0.pd...

As For this Docket I am having a hard time trying to locate that one as well...

what I want to know is what happened between 135 and 144 ????

http://docs.google.com/gview?url=http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/can...

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=1FETPc3a6hm0Gd7cS-dSUG0WPlADv4bv0a0...

Was there some kind of editing error that I got when visiting the site?

SCEA’s decision to implement Update 3.21 placed Plaintiffs and Class members in a “Hobson’s Choice.” PS3 owners who chose not to install Update 3.21 could no longer access
many of the other important PS3 features including the PSN, the ability to play games online, the ability to access online features, or the ability to play newer PS3 games and/or Blu-ray discs that required Update 3.21. On the other hand, PS3 owners who did install Update 3.21 lost all access to the computer functionality of the PS3’s “Other OS” feature.
Please use plain text.
Message 2268 of 2,398 (5 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 03/01/2008
Online
4336 posts
 

Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Feb 1, 2011

curiousecat wrote:

That was the original link..they just pulled but I have something else that may help

This is super freaky wierd. its there but then again it is not there.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/3:2010cv01811/226894/144/0.pd...

As For this Docket I am having a hard time trying to locate that one as well...

what I want to know is what happened between 135 and 144 ????

http://docs.google.com/gview?url=http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/can...

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=1FETPc3a6hm0Gd7cS-dSUG0WPlADv4bv0a0...

Was there some kind of editing error that I got when visiting the site?

"We were taught to respect authority, and parents and, basically, everything," he said. "And, in my opinion, that's one of the most basic things that has changed in our society: People don't have much respect for anything. They use foul and vulgar language. Violence is -- it fills all the movies. It's hard to watch a movie that's not filled with violence and vulgarity and bleep." Pima County Sheriff C. D.

i don't know, they all show up and work fine for me. when linking the dockets/documents from justia, it'd be easier if you just link the whole thing, then point out the item #. trying to link the document after you've opened it might be your problem. try this link: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2010cv01811/226894/

@ Naquiel, he's talking about item #143, section 2, A

Please use plain text.
Message 2269 of 2,398 (5 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Fender Bender
Registered: 07/30/2005
Offline
2966 posts
 

Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Feb 1, 2011

curiousecat wrote:

That was the original link..they just pulled but I have something else that may help

This is super freaky wierd. its there but then again it is not there.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/3:2010cv01811/226894/144/0.pd...

As For this Docket I am having a hard time trying to locate that one as well...

what I want to know is what happened between 135 and 144 ????

http://docs.google.com/gview?url=http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/can...

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=1FETPc3a6hm0Gd7cS-dSUG0WPlADv4bv0a0...

Was there some kind of editing error that I got when visiting the site?

"We were taught to respect authority, and parents and, basically, everything," he said. "And, in my opinion, that's one of the most basic things that has changed in our society: People don't have much respect for anything. They use foul and vulgar language. Violence is -- it fills all the movies. It's hard to watch a movie that's not filled with violence and vulgarity and bleep." Pima County Sheriff C. D.


Well to help out its best if you just link to look at cftw529'd signature since they are direct links to the lawsutes wich has all the links to all the pdfs. the links you have are confusing to keep tabs when these links are better to keep things organized.

for other os lawsuits http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2010cv01811/226894/

for sony v geohot http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2011cv00167/235965/

Well since i dont want to go reading many pages tonight since im getting tired i will help with your original question regarding if sony conceds a part of one of their motions. Sony can change or remove a request for "All Documents" to the point that sony was not being very specific and can be marked as a very open request wich can be to much to handle. What sony should of or might do is ask for documents that the plaintiffs are saying is proof that sony is being accused of as in any documents that the plaintiffs claim sony is missleading or giving false advertising. Its not that sony is saying they where wrong by conceding the request but trying more to correct a problem of not being specific or just trying to change the motion to reflect only what is needed for the case. Basicly instead of asking for all the information from all the websites, it will hopefully be narrowed down to the few specifc websites that is only relivant to the case and not everyones website, blog or twitter that everyone has talked about the case or other os feature.

Or they are ok with conceding the motion becuae they feel they dont need the information based on what they have.

_____________________________________________________
Opinion:
Everyone has their own opinion. The people you interact with in a community come from all walks of life, many different religions and beliefs, different family income levels, different points of view on many of today's hot topics of discussion. In a nutshell, each person is entitled to his or her own opinion. Discussion about it is the best thing to do, after all that's what communities are for. If it turns into some kind of sparring match, agree to disagree and move on.
Please use plain text.
Message 2270 of 2,398 (5 Views)
Reply
0 Likes