Treasure Hunter
Registered: 07/13/2003
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Re: Sony introduce PS3 firmware patches

Aug 1, 2010

 


Omen159 wrote:
Damn, another rep has lied and stated that it sounds like a software issue,because in safe mode restore default settings option runs complete, but restore file sytem and rebuild database wont complete it's cycle. Again, not hardware, amazing that I even have a clue to what happend to my PS3 after a update. argue all you want peeps, system tests dont lie. Thank you Sony Rep and thank you Safe mode.

 

Again this is hardware issue not software if this fails to run to completion. IO Controller or SATA Controller on the fritz. PS3 is an incredibly complex piece of hardware with a reliable and stable OS. The Rep on the Phone isn't a qualified hardware technician. If they were they would not be on the phone talking to you. I know this because I use to do that very same type of work before. Those individuals are given a list of instructions, usually hired with a hobbyist background in which they have about as much knowledge as you do on the situation and are merely taking a guess at what cat is causing the plague this week. 

 

If you managed a re-install of the OS, then guess what, it's hardware not software if the problem doesn't get resolved. 

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Fender Bender
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Re: Sony introduce PS3 firmware patches

Aug 1, 2010

Ugh, no, JR. The full 3.41 file contains the entire update, it's just screwed up somehow.

 

Look at the file sizes if you don't believe me:

 

Firmware 2.60 (138mb)

Firmware 2.70 (142mb)

Firmware 2.76 (142mb)

Firmware 2.80 (142mb)

Firmware 3.01 (153mb)

Firmware 3.10 (159mb)

Firmware 3.15 (163mb)

Firmware 3.21 (164mb)

Firmware 3.30 (166mb)

Firmware 3.40 (167mb)

Firmware 3.41 (167mb)

Firmware 3.41patch (37mb)

 

As you can see, every update has the entire firmware package inside, *even* the full 3.41 update. The 3.41 *patch* is the only one that doesn't include the full code. So the full 3.41 update is just screwed up somehow. I mean, it might be missing a file or something, but it's not *supposed* to.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Sony introduce PS3 firmware patches

Aug 1, 2010

What might be happening is that when the patch is applied to add the Store functions that were named in the Blog that is the last file listed in the FW database and when you replace the HDD that is the file that is listed inside the FW as needed and it fails because it is a patch and not the full system file as needed before. 

 

 

Sony will need to release a file after testing to fix this issue and I am sure that they are currently working on it, but they stay quiet since the CS reps are the last to know when a fix is being worked on.


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Fender Bender
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Re: Sony introduce PS3 firmware patches

Aug 1, 2010

 


jeff_rigby wrote:

 

Logically then why the patch if they provided the entire firmware??????? Patch the firmware before updating and the patch is not needed.   

 

The patch is for people on 3.40 who update via direct connection (either wired or wireless). Honestly, this is the majority of users, and will help speed up the process and save server load. The full file is for people who aren't running 3.40 (which includes people installing a new hard drive) and for people who want to use a media storage method for updating (usb or disc).

 

So both files would need to be available. It would just default to the smaller one if it was applicable.

 

I downloaded 3.41 directly, I didn't use a PC download and USB, etc. My download was done in less than 3 minutes, and the install took only 2. So the whole process was only about 5 minute long, which was surprisingly fast. That's why they started making a patch version available.

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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 12/18/2008
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Re: Sony introduce PS3 firmware patches

Aug 3, 2010

Edited to correct errors on my part (jeff_rigby).  It is now accurate (grey text is incorrect. Red is edit to make statements correct)


PyrrhusRex wrote:

 


jeff_rigby wrote:

 

3.41 Patch does not include the entire core firmware, it updates firmware on the PS3 with a patch as well as adds incrementally new code. 


 

That's not totally accurate. 

 

3.41 was the first update to have a PS3PATCH.PUP file, but there is also the normal PS3UPDAT.PUP file, which includes the entire set of firmware files. The *full* file isn't even working right.  The patch file is working correctly.

 

The 3.41 patch file is only 37mb, but the full install file is a normal 167mb.


 

3.41 Patch does not include the entire core firmware, it updates firmware on the PS3 with a patch as well as adds incrementally new code. 

 

To install a new Hard disk requires a Firmware version with the entire firmware core and the non-patch release version of 3.41 is broken in some way.  IF you have not upgraded your PS3 to 3.41 before you install a Hard DIsk you can use an older version that is = to or newer than the version previously used.  (PS3 stores last version number in Flash ROM and checks to insure you install the same or newer).  

 

If you installed 3.41 on your PS3 before you tried to install a new HD you will have to wait until  Sony fixes this problem.  I expect Sony will have to release two version of each firmware upgrade, one with just patch so that upgrades take place automatically and faster and one that can be downloaded for people to use when upgrading their HD.

 

NEW: And older PS3s which store the core firmware in Flash ROM do not have a problem upgrading their Hard Drives to a larger size.  The Key to understanding why newer PS3s having problems upgrading to a new larger Hard Disk being the new Hard disk does not have the core firmware and newer PS3s DO NOT store the key core firmware in the PS3 flash rom it's stored as a file on the newer PS3s Hard Disk.  

 

There is a PS3 owner who did a Disk Clone to a larger HD and was able to upgrade his HD to a larger size using 3.41 as the core firmware was copied in it's encrypted form to the new HD during the cloning process.  

 

As I said before we are looking at something like a ZIP file and not able to examine the contents.  In addition to a main core firmware file there are or can be multiple other files.  The program that updates the PS3 takes the encrypted probably compressed PS3PATCH.PUP file and first confirms integrity then it decrypts from one version of and re-encrypts a unique version for the target PS3 and copies files to the PS3 HD.     

 

The PS3 firmware update file being the same size (within one megabyte) of the 3.40 version while including a 37 meg patch file should cause you to question your assumption that the entire core firmware file was included.  Why include a patch if this is true? This is incorrect , I saw my PS3 (Plus member) apparently install 3.41 twice and assumed that firmware was updated and then a patch installed.

 

The core firmware contains all routines that MUST reside in memory for the boot XMB.  Other less critical routines are loaded as needed and swapped in and out of memory on a regular basis.  All these files were included in previous versions of PS3 firmware. ONLY if a file is large enough to offer a savings in download time via a patch rather than downloading a new version of the entire file would the patch process be used.    I suspect that the core firmware program is the largest file. 

 

I've mixed two thought trains in the above, 1) that a new Hard Disk  requires ALL firmware files and at least one is missing on the new 3.41 as it has a patch to an existing file.  And 2) The reason for a Patch file as I find the reason for that is equally important as it indicates that there are going to be multiple updates to the main core firmware file that loads at boot.

 

Again, I am making educated guesses and using the above logic.  It fits....... 

 

The firmware patch process would only be needed for a larger file(s) that may be repeatedly updated.  I suspect this was targeted for the main firmware file(s) loaded at boot.  Java and Javascript language support (Java Virtual Machine, Yahoo Javascript engine and possibly the Android VM) would NEED to be in these files and I expect Sony is planning for multiple updates to these engines.  

 

Yahoo has indicated that they will upgrade the current Javascript function set and that would require a new or "patched" Javascript engine and if new Java functions are needed then the Java Virtual machine will need "patched".  In addition Sony has stated that Google TV will "eventually make it's way into the Playstation" so a Dalvick Virtual Machine similar to a Java VM will need to be in the PS3 core firmware. 

 

http://developer.android.com/guide/basics/what-is-android.html

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Sony introduce PS3 firmware patches

Aug 3, 2010

 


PyrrhusRex wrote:

Ugh, no, JR. The full 3.41 file contains the entire update, it's just screwed up somehow.

 

Look at the file sizes if you don't believe me:

 

Firmware 2.60 (138mb)

Firmware 2.70 (142mb)

Firmware 2.76 (142mb)

Firmware 2.80 (142mb)

Firmware 3.01 (153mb)

Firmware 3.10 (159mb)

Firmware 3.15 (163mb)

Firmware 3.21 (164mb)

Firmware 3.30 (166mb)

Firmware 3.40 (167mb)

Firmware 3.41 (167mb)

Firmware 3.41patch (37mb)

 

As you can see, every update has the entire firmware package inside, *even* the full 3.41 update. The 3.41 *patch* is the only one that doesn't include the full code. So the full 3.41 update is just screwed up somehow. I mean, it might be missing a file or something, but it's not *supposed* to.


 

You are correct, I am a PLUS subscriber and the update was automatic so I didn't know there were two separate files.  Logically then why the patch if they provided the entire firmware??????? Patch the firmware before updating and the patch is not needed.   I saw two installations and assumed  my PS3 ran both patch and non-patch. 

 

Something else is going on.....Patch to some other program not part of firmware????  

 

 

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Sony introduce PS3 firmware patches

Aug 3, 2010

http://www.examiner.com/x-12218-Video-Game-Examiner~y2010m8d2-Sony-releases-new-firmware-341-Fixes-H... 

 

Firmware 3.41 Contents New vs Old 

 

You were correct, the 3.41 firmware release had a problem, the patch did not.  It appears to be fixed with a new release of 3.41.  In addition, just as suspected, the PS3 firmware contains multiple files.  The core firmware OS is about 4 megs, smaller than I expected.   

 

So no traditional compiled XMB kernel containing device drivers.  I guess more flexibility but harder for 3rd party developers....OK <grin> what third party developers.  Sony only releases hooks so no third party can use anything but published SDKs.  

 

Following through on that I expect third party development for the PS3 XMB side will only occur with something like Java or Android.  Sony develops the Java or Android Virtual machine and 3rd party developers only have access to a VIRTUAL machine running on the PS3 XMB hypervisor.  Sony does not have to allow access to PS3 hardware directly and the PS3 security is maintained.  If they do this correctly then new virtual machines will not be required when Sony changes hardware as they did with the Slim.  With other OS Sony would have had to rewrite the virtual machine that Linux used as it ran directly on the PS3 hypervisor. 

 

Security for the PS3 OS solved there are still user security issues as in hijacking, password security , and virus protection.  Javascript and Java do have features that address this but not in a foolproof manner.  Google and Yahoo have provided tools for users to create their own Android and Javascript applications.  If I were Sony I'd require user generated applications to run in a sandbox and only Java bytecode applications checked by Sony and available from a PSN store able to read and write to files outside of the sandbox.

 

Bravia Internet is coming soon and it contains both Javascript and Java applications.  Sony seems to want open source third party development on the XMB side of the PS3 but a closed source $10,000 development platform on the game side.  

 

?http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_42 /b4151030035652
.htm
 

 

"The company says it also may let Google and others create applications for its PlayStation 3 game console. "Open technologies are very important to consumers," Schaaff said in an interview last year.  

 

Google may be less excited about the tieups than Sony is, but the advances aren't likely to go unrequited. Last winter, Sony invited Google executives to Tokyo for discussions on integrating Android and other Google offerings into Sony's gadgets, according to a person with knowledge of the meeting. "Sony believes Google's products and software can help differentiate it from competitors," says Tim Bajarin of tech consultancy Creative Strategies. 


While Sony officials declined to comment, closer ties with Google clearly fit into the Japanese company's ambitions in software. For decades, Sony has excelled at making gadgets, but it has lagged in linking them to each other and to the company's music, movies, and TV shows. To speed that process, Chief Executive Howard Stringer four years ago put Apple (AAPL) veteran Tim Schaaff in charge of software. Last February, Stringer reshuffled top management, turning to younger executives who are, he said at the time, "network-centric and very open-minded." Cozying up to Google helps Stringer speed development of products that can tap into the Web. 


The moves are part of a shift toward open-source software at Sony."

 

 

Looking at the Share blog, many want a PSN application store for the XMB side of the PS3.  Again, loss of other OS is mentioned and allowing third party applications even if not free and available in a PSN store is said by many as a positive. 

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