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Gaming Beast
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Re: Why is Dante the weakest character?

Feb 5, 2013

MarrowOchi wrote:

Dante? Weak?

Wait, seriously? Like..really? He's not weak at all. He's definitely one of the stronger characters of the roster. Obviously not to the level of Kratos' range or Raidens combo potential, but saying he's 'weak' is going way way WAY too far.

 

The thing with Dante is that people don't understand how good he really is and complain that the guns don't do anything. The point here is, you're supposed to be in, up close, dealing as much damage as you can in a combo.

 

Need to get in? Use Angel Boost. Someone's going to take advantage of your misplaced sword combo? Cancel into a gun and then immediately cancel into a counter. Someone's spamming from a distance? Jump and Angel Boost, then Helm Breaker. Someone's about to Super you and you can't dodge roll in time because you tried to slice? Rainstorm cancel upwards.

 

I could come up with a legion of things that Dante can do in almost every situation. In the right hands; good hands; he's one of the best.


So... what do you do when any of your combo starting moves get blocked? This character's main problems are that almost all of his combos start on the same 4 punishable attacks.

 



@Ayla's: As much as I do like the mentality, I really don't think that snippet applies here since we're discussing a character's potential and lack thereof.



That being said, every character has modes that they are better in than others. For Dante, his best mode is visibly 1v1. The real problem is that he's not really that good in that mode either.

He's just way too unsafe and realistically, despite how good his level 3 is, no one should ever let you reach it. Dante loses to projectiles, super armor and the block button. He doesn't have a great tech chase game, he doesn't have a good wakeup game, and while his combos do build a little extra meter, he has higher AP costs to offset the 40 extra AP that really good players can get from it with ridiculously fancy and complex combos. His supers are sub-par, and he has few KCs, all of which are unsafe on block. He does have good mobility, but his angel dash and cancels don't really help him enough to make up for all of his shortcomings.

He's just a high risk-low reward character with a rather high learning curve. It's obvious that they were afraid of making Dante too good (Which would be really easy to do due to his design), but they overdid it.

 

 

That being said, you can't say he's the worst in the game. Radec definitely holds that spot.

 

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Why is Dante the weakest character?

Feb 5, 2013

Here are alot... watch on youtube for the button inputs 

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Funny allstars vid! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RodONCh8mxA eager face photo: Eager face thSpongeBobBandGeeks.gif
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Why is Dante the weakest character?

Feb 5, 2013
radec worst, uhh I have to disagree he is only the worst if the player spams his sniper or ground forward square which leave him open to be punished. he is a threat with a player who knows what to do with him
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Gaming Beast
Registered: 11/22/2012
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Re: Why is Dante the weakest character?

Feb 5, 2013

ATOMB0Y_ wrote:
radec worst, uhh I have to disagree he is only the worst if the player spams his sniper or ground forward square which leave him open to be punished. he is a threat with a player who knows what to do with him
I have played arguably the best 3 Radecs out there (Kmart, Tsukyome and Fat Slapper) and as soon as you learn how Radec works and where his blind spots are pretty much everybody gives him a lot of trouble.

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Survivor
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Re: Why is Dante the weakest character?

Feb 5, 2013
I know the discussion is about the character, but let's face it: choosing one character over another because "some are cheap" is going to get you no where. Now, if you really like Dante, start by learning his cancel.

Next, remember this game has three games modes: FFA, 2v2, and 1v1. When balancing a game with three modes, characters will fall into different places in different modes. You don't want to buff one character too much and make him better in FFA to make him a god in 1v1 ruining balance there.

See how hard balance can be? Dante is a complex character. Those who play him well do rather decently in the other modes for my tournaments, though none have placed high yet. I think that is mostly for two reasons.

1. We just don't get many Dante's entering. Without them trying to get in at a high level, it's hard to develope high level play for a character.
2. Most people who enter with a Dante don't really use him often. He's a secondary to third main. People aren't mastering him to his full potential.

The reason I post so often about attitude is because those with the proper ones make big names for themselves. We have a girl on our site fighting as Heihachi now! What happens when one of you sits down and just takes Dante to a new level? You might enter a tournament, place high in some extremely stacked brackets or even win! This of the pride and glory that comes with it. It's worth the extra mile of work for your character.

What if Dante IS good, and no one has just figured it out quite yet? It's up to you to find that hidden potential! A complaining wont help that happen. Smiley Happy

P.S. I've been trying to learn Dante and play him too. Smiley Wink
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Gaming Beast
Registered: 11/22/2012
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Re: Why is Dante the weakest character?

Feb 5, 2013
@Ayla's: While I get what you're saying, here's the problem with Dante: His combo starters are all punishable. I mean, I've seen combos started with almost all of his non-triangle moves, but it doesn't matter how much fancy and complex stuff you find for him if he still has to land a telegraphed and punishable move to get it started. The best things he has right now are air-to-air combos, empty cancels and AP burst from a grab.

To be honest, having an entire button dedicated to moves used more or less only for canceling and comboing really hurts him since it limits his pool of available moves for starting things.


This is the reason that Dante players tend to use him as secondaries or 3rds.



And since you bring up Heihachi, the same thing applies to him. You could discover the craziest tech for him, it won't do much if it doesn't stop me from leaving the ground somehow.
Heihachi and Dante both suffer from fundamental character flaws.

Dante is a combo character with high execution and one of the least safe characters in the game with rather minimal reward for the effort. His safest way to build meter is to combo off of grabs, but his grab is mediocre at best, which puts him at risk of losing a lot of meter if he goes for level 3, which he may have to if a player is making sure not to get hit by square moves.

Heihachi is in a similar boat, being a ground based character in a game where taking to the air is so heavily rewarded. Big Daddy is similar, but unlike Heihachi, Big Daddy has ways to bring people back to the ground and keep them there. Heihachi just has to hope you eventually stop jumping.

I'm not saying these characters can't win, or can't be played well, but compared to a large portion of the roster they are definitely lacking (And don't even get me started on Radec... The Zoning character who gets outzoned by everybody with any sort of projectile AND loses to every sort of melee character.).

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Why is Dante the weakest character?

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Feb 5, 2013

Basically you can see what I'm talking about. I'm a Cole fan too, I liked inFamous, but I had a lot of fun with Dante in the beginning. Now though, I've come to the hard realization that he hasn't been designed as well as he should have been. He has too many weaknesses that can be exploited and SuperBot has failed to make the balance they promised.

I really does make me fear what will happen after Kat and Emmett. If SuperBot is dropped, will we just get Kat and Emmett, and then the show is over? What if they are OP? Can you imagine what that'll do to the online community? Everyone playing as Kat and Emmett @_@

I guess if I want to go back to Dante, I should look up some guides and practice what I can.

 

 

EDIT: Wow didn't notice the 4th page...brb

 

Thanks Auxilium for the video. Wow that gives me some hope...if the starter isn't blocked of course, but still Smiley Tongue

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First Son
Registered: 02/06/2013
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Re: Why is Dante the weakest character?

Feb 6, 2013

You can't cancel unless you hit an unguarded opponent. Therefore, it can't be used to keep your oppents guessing.  I agree with the general statement that Dante is a weak character. In order to build sufficient meter you need to get someone into a combo at close range. You can dash into a square opener, but you are vulnerable during the dash. You can dash in the air, but your moves at the end of the dash won't link into combos easily. His forward square attack has a faster cool down time than his regular square attack and allows comboing into his better combos, but this is only one alternative and it's start-up seems slightly slower. His level one super is crap unless you are consistent with an empty bold cancel (not easy without a lot of practice). If someone knows some better openers that allow for combos in the 100 ap range, please reply because currently, I find it difficult to be good with Dante. I can perform the bold empty cancel into his level one super about 80% of the time, but catching someone off guard in order to build the meter is tricky when you need to connect with his square attacks. 

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