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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 06/17/2013
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Re: Getting an Xbox One.

Jul 4, 2013
You act like the used game market is DESTROYING the developers. It is hurting it, but not as much as you're saying. Doesn't the movie industry have used DVD's? Are there used cars? And a lot of other things has used products.
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Sackboy
Registered: 08/09/2009
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Re: Getting an Xbox One.

[ Edited ]
Jul 4, 2013

EG_NeoMorph wrote:

Nothing you have put actually is actually true. All those things were blown out of proportion by the media and like the majority of the public you ate it all up and assumed that Microsoft is some big brother wannabe.

 

Did you even read what I put regarding about the DRM? THEY...WERE... TRYING... TO... HELP... THE... DEVS...

 

OK,.. say you sold an Item we will call XYZ for £30.

 

Customer A buys the item from the developer for £30. He finishes the game and sells it on.

Customer B buys the game from a second hand shop. £20 goes the the second hand shop and let's say £10 goes to Customer A.

Customer B sells it on when he finishes it. He gets's £10 back when he sells it back to the shop.

The second hand shop sell it again for £20 to Customer C.

 

Now look at how much money the second hand shop has made and look at how much the developer who has worked hard to make the game. Because Customer B and C bought the same game from the second hand shop the developer lost out on £60. All Microsoft was going to do was add a SMALL FEE... for selling the game on. Not a huge fee, a SMALL FEE. It would have gone to the people who make the game rather than the second hand shop. I think the second hand system is ultimately more destructive than piracy to be honest.

 

The DRM that everyone seems to despise would have protocted our purchases (imagine if your stuff was stolen... the games would have been registered to your account so you could have just got a replacement console and downloaded them to your new machine).

 

The new system was more geared to a 21st Century lifestyle. After all, the music we buy on Itunes is basically locked to an identical system and nobody screams foul regarding that.

 

No, I think it was all down to poor explanation from Microsoft and then a media that overreacted to the news of the new system. And like I said, Microsoft had to to step back and return to the original system.

 

Just have a read of this and DIGEST.... http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous-xbox-engineer-explains-drm-and-microsofts-xbox-one-intentions


No, all that I said was true because it came out of Microsoft's mouths, and their Xbox One Policies 

 

Yes I read what you said about the DRM and YOU ARE WRONG! Microsoft doesn't care about developers, or we wouldn't hear of many complaining about Microsoft's treatment of them. Many Indie devs don't want anything to do with Microsoft now. NO, it wasn't about the developers, it was about MICROSOFT wanting FULL CONTROL over ALL the GAMES we buy for their console. That those games will have to rely on servers to stay up in-order to play them. Well Xbot, servers don't stay up forever, and I DO NOT want my whole library of games to disappear one day when Microsoft decides. It was about Microsoft's AZURE system, and MICROSOFT profiting off it by partnering with certain retailers. Microsoft says they will not charge the retailer FEES, but they didn't say they will not charge the Publisher FEES to use their AZURE system. You would have to be a fool to believe in what Microsoft said about the Publishers are putting pressure on them when it's Microsofts' AZURE system, THEIR policies and THEIR console. Plus the FACT that Sony didn't have/feel that pressure at all. Nah, the joke is on you!

 

Yes, selling ANYTHING 2nd hand gives ZERO $ back to the original maker. That's the way with every physical product. You know what happens to a product that isn't physical? = It's worth NOTHING, or hardly anything with a physical digital transfer disc that LIMITS you to who you can sell it to. (Retail Partners) They will then dictate the price they will give you, and give you far less for it. No more selling to whoever you want, no more Crag's List/Ebay to make back a good amount of cash to buy a NEW game. That's the other thing, when you put limits on games, and ruin the worth, people will buy far less. They will also trade in far less games when they feel stuck with their game purchases unless they kneel to the almighty used game provider. When that crap happens, the used game provider makes far less money, and will likely go under. Then everything goes Digital like Microsoft wants, and WE the gamer will lose far more than gain. Oh that's right the developer you keep uttering, it's not about the developer, it's the Publisher who is in charge of their game, but on Microsoft's wannabe online DRM system, Microsoft has full control when every game relies on their Azure servers, and without a used game business model, developers and Publishers will suffer far greater than they are now. People will not take the chances on buying full digital games like they do with physical discs, and people will no longer be able to sell games to anyone they want to make back money to buy a new game. Prices of Digital games will also stay higher for far longer, and that will also cause people to buy less.

 

This whole thing about going digital is best for Publishers/Developers is only seeing the grass as greener on the other side without seeing very big negatives that could hurt far more than they ever gain.

 

You talk like this new system is standard for music/movies because this is the 21st century. Yes, something that you can get quick for a fast and easy listen/watch makes perfect sense, but you fail to understand that MANY GAMERS ARE COLLECTORS and digital/digital disc delivery with online DRM ARE practically WORTHLESS!!!

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Splicer
Registered: 07/02/2013
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Re: Getting an Xbox One.

Jul 4, 2013
Dude longest post ever
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Splicer
Registered: 07/02/2013
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Re: Getting an Xbox One.

Jul 4, 2013
But your pretty much correct digital stuff suck but we like them anyways
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Welcoming Committee
Registered: 06/11/2013
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Re: Getting an Xbox One.

Jul 4, 2013

FearedKiller7 wrote:
You act like the used game market is DESTROYING the developers. It is hurting it, but not as much as you're saying. Doesn't the movie industry have used DVD's? Are there used cars? And a lot of other things has used products.

 

Yep, and remember you can only loan you car to a friend one time, and he can't give it back to you it is his forever. Sounds stupid? of course it is and it is stupid for anything else including games. 

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 06/27/2013
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Re: Getting an Xbox One.

Jul 4, 2013

FearedKiller7 wrote:
You act like the used game market is DESTROYING the developers. It is hurting it, but not as much as you're saying. Doesn't the movie industry have used DVD's? Are there used cars? And a lot of other things has used products.

Yeah, but the other markets don't exist in a world where being at a MASSIVE loss out of the gate isn't the only option. Every AAA game is in the hole at production, and that's just because of everyone wanting a chunk of the money. With cars, when you buy a car, the retailer is also the company in most cases. With movies, sure, it hurts, but they gain a lot back in the box office. Point is, with the others, there's alternate ways to gain the money back.

 

With video games, there's not, and that's why it hurts them so much.

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First Son
Registered: 06/12/2013
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Re: Getting an Xbox One.

Jul 4, 2013

HAHA i thought this was gonna be a trolololol thread.

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Sackboy
Registered: 08/09/2009
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Re: Getting an Xbox One.

[ Edited ]
Jul 4, 2013

Cosmosis_1080P wrote:

Yeah, but the other markets don't exist in a world where being at a MASSIVE loss out of the gate isn't the only option. Every AAA game is in the hole at production, and that's just because of everyone wanting a chunk of the money. With cars, when you buy a car, the retailer is also the company in most cases. With movies, sure, it hurts, but they gain a lot back in the box office. Point is, with the others, there's alternate ways to gain the money back.

 

With video games, there's not, and that's why it hurts them so much.


What a load of bull... Anytime a company invests to make something it takes money, so they are in a loss right out the gate for that particular product, and it is their only option. Everyone doesn't get a good chunk of the money, because retailers actually get very little on new game sales. It's the publisher who gets the lion's share while developers struggle. It's also the publisher who decides to put way too much money into an IP that isn't big enough to recoup the losses THEY DECIDED on in the first place... You blame gamers and used game sales for that?

 

When you buy a used car, it can be from anyone. You also come off very ignorant when you say the retailer is the company in most cases. Car dealerships for the most part are a owned business by individuals, and it's the Car makers (Publishers/Devs) that charges them for every new modle they order. Dealerships do not sell only one MAKE of car when selling used, and that money DOES NOT go back to the Workers (Devs) in the car manufacturing plant, or the Makers of said car (Publishers) - You have a better example? 

 

You do say one thing that makes a good point I heard all before = "There's alternate ways to gain the money back" - Yeah, it's called DLC, have you ever heard of it? And what is stopping Publishers from having their own used game model to cut out the middleman like gamestop? 

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Splicer
Registered: 07/01/2013
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Re: Getting an Xbox One.

Jul 4, 2013

Mikewarrior wrote:

No, all that I said was true because it came out of Microsoft's mouths, and their Xbox One Policies 

 

Yes I read what you said about the DRM and YOU ARE WRONG! Microsoft doesn't care about developers, or we wouldn't hear of many complaining about Microsoft's treatment of them.


 

Hmmm so Microsoft are liars eh... The fact that the system would have returned some of the second hand sales back to the original developers is Microsoft not caring about said developers. I guess you must be part of the Sony Hivemind.

 

"Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded."

 

How many people buy from Steam. How many people buy from the Sony digital store. How many people buy from the Apple store... ALL DIGITAL. No difference there. If you screw up your disc (and yes, I've done that in the past) you would have still had a working game because the game worked like an old PC title... the registration key thing. About the only bad thing regarding the original Xbox One system was having to connect to the Internet every 24 hours. But that's gone now with the return to the 360 model.

 

Nope, a lot of the bad press is due to Sony pushing the PS4. The PS4 requires PS+ though and nobody seems to moan about that.

 

Personally I originally was dubious about the Xbox One system... until I looked at it closely. And then I really was looking forward to it until the whingers killed it. So now I've got to put the disk in the system to play a game (when before I could have played the game without having to put the disk in as the game is installed onto the hard drive anyway). Oh well. At least the system is multi-functional while the PS4 is just a games console. An equivelant? PS4 = Phone. XBone = Smartphone. Still going to buy both.

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Sackboy
Registered: 08/09/2009
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Re: Getting an Xbox One.

[ Edited ]
Jul 4, 2013

EG_NeoMorph wrote:

Hmmm so Microsoft are liars eh... The fact that the system would have returned some of the second hand sales back to the original developers is Microsoft not caring about said developers. I guess you must be part of the Sony Hivemind.

 

"Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded."

How many people buy from Steam. How many people buy from the Sony digital store. How many people buy from the Apple store... ALL DIGITAL. No difference there. If you screw up your disc (and yes, I've done that in the past) you would have still had a working game because the game worked like an old PC title... the registration key thing. About the only bad thing regarding the original Xbox One system was having to connect to the Internet every 24 hours. But that's gone now with the return to the 360 model.

 

Nope, a lot of the bad press is due to Sony pushing the PS4. The PS4 requires PS+ though and nobody seems to moan about that.

Personally I originally was dubious about the Xbox One system... until I looked at it closely. And then I really was looking forward to it until the whingers killed it. So now I've got to put the disk in the system to play a game (when before I could have played the game without having to put the disk in as the game is installed onto the hard drive anyway). Oh well. At least the system is multi-functional while the PS4 is just a games console. An equivelant? PS4 = Phone. XBone = Smartphone. Still going to buy both.


Microsoft are liars when they blamed it on the PUBLISHERS (Not developers like you keep saying) when it came to MICROSOFT's DRM system requirements. You also fail to see that any money from used game sales would be going to the PUBLISHERS (Again, not the Devs) at the expense of the CONSUMER, and YOU think that is smart for the PUBLISHER's poor business decisions?  

 

You screwing up your disc is no one's fault but your own, so be mad at you own idiotic self. Anyways, like I said before, people can/will buy digital, but what you fail to realize again is that there are many millions of gamers who like to COLLECT their games and always have them to be available to SELL/PLAY/BORROW. That your little incentives of not having to put a disc in a tray doesn't matter to them because that is trivial at best. It's definitely not worth losing the value, and the choice to do as you wish with that physical disc at anytime. Very few gamers I know want their whole collection reliant on servers staying up.

 

A lot of bad press started with Microsoft, not Sony. It was Microsoft who said a bunch of stupid crap, it was Microsoft that made those dumb policies, and it was Microsoft who lost a lot of past fans like me, and easily handed it all to Sony. I sure am glad Sony is doing the right things. Even PS+ offers far more games to play for Free, and Sony wants to greatly improve the service... I can't fault them for that when Microsoft has been charging for 10+ years.

 

Whiners also didn't kill it for you, PRE-ORDERS did. Microsoft could tell that the PS4 is greatly outselling the Xbone and realized they are getting slaughtered. They did a quick Mitt Romney reversal, but they fail to realize that gives people even less confidence in what they are trying to sell. No one likes a flip-flopper just to save their own butt. You talk of whiners yet at the same time cry about not being able to play a game without having to put the disc in the trey = Now tthat is one lazy crying baby. Nah, I'd much rather have more control over the games I buy than being able to be a little bit more lazy.

 

Oh, and no, PS4 is a true GAME console with options (Not a phone) while the Xbone is a Jack of all trades and a master of NONE! 

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