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Jun 10 2005
By: ChuckS.~ Hekseville Citizen 339 posts
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Hopes for unified next-gen DVD standard dashed

14 replies 9 views Edited Jun 10, 2005
"Very little chance" of reaching an agreement on a unified format, says Kutaragi

Talks between electronics giants Sony and Toshiba aimed at agreeing on a unified next-generation disc format have collapsed, meaning that the incompatible Blu-Ray and HD-DVD formats will both probably make it to market.

Speaking in a press conference, Sony Computer Entertainment boss Ken Kutaragi said: "There's very little chance that the negotiations will go through." This follows Toshiba's announcement last month that it would not agree to a unified format based around the Blu-Ray disc.

Kutaragi went on to discuss Sony's decision to adopt Blu-Ray for the PS3, claiming that "product planning" had forced the company to make a choice early on.

Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, Toshiba's favoured format, use blue lasers rather than red to store data at higher densities. Companies already behind the Blu-Ray format include Philips, Apple, Hitachi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung and LG.

HD-DVD supporters include NEC and Sanyo, and more than 80 films from studios such as Paramount, Warner Bros and Universal are slated for release on the format later this year.

Sony had been hoping to avoid a VHS vs. Betamax-style format war by opening talks with Toshiba back in February, but the two companies found it impossible to agree over storage.

Blu-Ray discs can hold 50GB of data, while HD-TV discs only store 30GB. But the HD-TV camp argues that this is more than adequate, and that manufacturing costs are lower as the discs can be produced with current-gen machinery - making the format cheaper and therefore more appealing to consumers.

Blu-Ray supporters say capacity should take priority over cost of production - adding that although such a large amount of storage might not be essential now, it will be required in the future as high-definition entertainment becomes increasingly popular.

The next generation of DVD players is expected to roll out to the mass market at the end of the year, and it now seems certain that both Blu-Ray and HD TV products will be found on the shelves.

The decision to use Blu-Ray in the PlayStation 3 may prove decisive in this battle; the PlayStation 2 was widely seen as the device that brought DVD to the masses in many territories, and HD-DVD may struggle to gain a foothold in a market where many consumers will already own Blu-Ray players thanks to their console purchase.


- Ellie Gibson, News Editor, GamesIndustry.biz
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I Only Post Everything
Registered: 10/16/2003
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Re: Hopes for unified next-gen DVD standard dashed

Jun 10, 2005

,
,
,Chuck S. wrote:
,
"Very little chance" of reaching an agreement on a unified format, says Kutaragi

Talks between electronics giants Sony and Toshiba aimed at agreeing on a unified next-generation disc format have collapsed, meaning that the incompatible Blu-Ray and HD-DVD formats will both probably make it to market.

Speaking in a press conference, Sony Computer Entertainment boss Ken Kutaragi said: "There's very little chance that the negotiations will go through." This follows Toshiba's announcement last month that it would not agree to a unified format based around the Blu-Ray disc.

Kutaragi went on to discuss Sony's decision to adopt Blu-Ray for the PS3, claiming that "product planning" had forced the company to make a choice early on.

Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, Toshiba's favoured format, use blue lasers rather than red to store data at higher densities. Companies already behind the Blu-Ray format include Philips, Apple, Hitachi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung and LG.

HD-DVD supporters include NEC and Sanyo, and more than 80 films from studios such as Paramount, Warner Bros and Universal are slated for release on the format later this year.

Sony had been hoping to avoid a VHS vs. Betamax-style format war by opening talks with Toshiba back in February, but the two companies found it impossible to agree over storage.

Blu-Ray discs can hold 50GB of data, while HD-TV discs only store 30GB. But the HD-TV camp argues that this is more than adequate, and that manufacturing costs are lower as the discs can be produced with current-gen machinery - making the format cheaper and therefore more appealing to consumers.

Blu-Ray supporters say capacity should take priority over cost of production - adding that although such a large amount of storage might not be essential now, it will be required in the future as high-definition entertainment becomes increasingly popular.

The next generation of DVD players is expected to roll out to the mass market at the end of the year, and it now seems certain that both Blu-Ray and HD TV products will be found on the shelves.

The decision to use Blu-Ray in the PlayStation 3 may prove decisive in this battle; the PlayStation 2 was widely seen as the device that brought DVD to the masses in many territories, and HD-DVD may struggle to gain a foothold in a market where many consumers will already own Blu-Ray players thanks to their console purchase.


- Ellie Gibson, News Editor, GamesIndustry.biz

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,
Great post I will support HD-DVD.
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Wastelander
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Re: Hopes for unified next-gen DVD standard dashed

Jun 10, 2005
I suppport blu-ray..... bigger is always better in my book,
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Survivor
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Re: Hopes for unified next-gen DVD standard dashed

Jun 10, 2005
you're only late by 5 posts.
,
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Fender Bender
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Re: Hopes for unified next-gen DVD standard dashed

Jun 10, 2005

HD-DVD has enough space for movies (15 gigs/layer) and uses existing DVD manufacturing equipment.

,

Blu-ray offers the potential for more space (25 gigs/layer), but requires new manufacturing equipment.

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Limit Breaker
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Re: Hopes for unified next-gen DVD standard dashed

Jun 10, 2005


Aleman wrote:

HD-DVD has enough space for movies (15 gigs/layer) and uses existing DVD manufacturing equipment.

Blu-ray offers the potential for more space (25 gigs/layer), but requires new manufacturing equipment.



Current,movies, perhaps, but not future media.  Also, BD-rom drives on PC,would be preferable due to greater storage capacity, something that,will make backing up of large filesets easier. 
,
,New manufactoring equptment cost will be absorbed via mass production,of the disks.  Not to mention, having blu-ray in a console will,sell millions of people blu-ray drives, making it easy for the,consumers to adobt the new tech, and giving a wide audiance to studios.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Hopes for unified next-gen DVD standard dashed

Jun 10, 2005

,
,
,Antimatter wrote:

,
,
,Aleman wrote:
,

HD-DVD has enough space for movies (15 gigs/layer) and uses existing DVD manufacturing equipment.

,

Blu-ray offers the potential for more space (25 gigs/layer), but requires new manufacturing equipment.

,

,
,
Current movies, perhaps, but not future media.  Also, BD-rom drives on PC would be preferable due to greater storage capacity, something that will make backing up of large filesets easier. 

New manufactoring equptment cost will be absorbed via mass production of the disks.  Not to mention, having blu-ray in a console will sell millions of people blu-ray drives, making it easy for the consumers to adobt the new tech, and giving a wide audiance to studios.
,

,
,

Considering a 1080p movie can fit onto a single DL DVD without much noticeable compression (Terminator 2), HD-DVD should be fine and should support even less compression.  Considering we lived with 480i for 50 years, 1080p should last quite awhile, at least until we no longer need optical discs at all.  In the future, we'll stream movies over the internet or download them from an iTunes-like movie store.
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Hopes for unified next-gen DVD standard dashed

Jun 10, 2005
Actually, there will be a unified format. It's just going to take longer than we expect. With the exception of INITIAL cost, Blu-Ray has every clear advantage. Besides if we were to take the mentality of ALWAYS keeping transition costs down, we may not be using CD and DVD's now. Both of these mediums had their INITIAL transitional costs.
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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Hopes for unified next-gen DVD standard dashed

Jun 10, 2005

,
,
,Jordahn wrote:
Actually, there will be a unified format. It's just going to take longer than we expect. With the exception of INITIAL cost, Blu-Ray has every clear advantage. Besides if we were to take the mentality of ALWAYS keeping transition costs down, we may not be using CD and DVD's now. Both of these mediums had their INITIAL transitional costs.
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Don't be so sure:

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Kutaragi: Blu-ray-HD-DVD deal dead

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Sony Computer Entertainment president says there's little chance of a unified disc format becoming a reality; Toshiba's president concurs.
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TOKYO--Just over two months ago, a truce was declared in the three-year war between the Blu-ray and HD-DVD factions as Sony and Toshiba began negotiations on a unified next-generation disc standard. However, talks fell apart after Toshiba announced last month that it has no plans to accept Blu-ray's disc structure as the base for a unified standard.

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Talking to the press on June 8, Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi offered his own view on the issue of a unified next-generation disc standard for the first time. He commented that he made the decision to adopt the Blu-ray disc format for the PlayStation 3 because he thinks the chances of coming up with a unified disc standard in the future are slim. "There's very little chance that the negotiations will go through," stated Kutaragi, who said "product planning" for the PS3's launch forced a decision on Sony.

,

Sony and Toshiba each announced its own unique next-generation disc format in 2002, and each has been vying to have its standard adopted ever since. The two sides began negotiations for a unified disc standard in February, fearing a repeat of the VHS-versus-Betamax wars of the early '80s. (Sony was the owner of the Betamax format.) The negotiations were broken on May 16 by Toshiba, which stated that its HD-DVD disc structure would be better suited than Sony’s Blu-ray for use in a unified standard, since it would be more convenient to both consumers and Hollywood film studios in terms of cost.

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Analysts see the chances of Toshiba and Sony coming to an agreement as virtually impossible, since both companies see their format as superior. Sony's main focus has been capacity, while Toshiba's has been cost of production.

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In a recent interview with Mainichi Interactive, Sony Blu-ray management director Kiyoshi Ni**bleep**ani was not optimistic. "There's too much difference between our beliefs," he said. "The Blu-ray can record 50GB, but the HD-DVD can only record 30GB. Without 50GB of capacity, we can't answer the demands of long hours of high-definition video recording and high-quality extras. The HD-DVD camp is saying that we don't need that much capacity, but it will be required in the future."

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Yoshihide Fujii, managing director at Toshiba, expressed similar doubts about a unified format. "Toshiba has no plans to agree with Sony," he said. "Most movie studios have said that the HD-DVD's 30GB capacity is enough. Normal households use HDs for long hours of recordings, and they record whatever they want to save long-term onto DVDs. So there's really no need for a recording media with an extreme capacity. The consumers are most concerned about inexpensive media. Therefore, the HD is better than the Blu-ray, since it can be manufactured by current DVD production machines and costs less to create."

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By Hirohiko Niizumi -- GameSpot
POSTED: 06/09/05 01:31 PM PST

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Limit Breaker
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Re: Hopes for unified next-gen DVD standard dashed

Jun 10, 2005


Aleman wrote:


Antimatter wrote:


Aleman wrote:

HD-DVD has enough space for movies (15 gigs/layer) and uses existing DVD manufacturing equipment.

Blu-ray offers the potential for more space (25 gigs/layer), but requires new manufacturing equipment.



Current,movies, perhaps, but not future media.  Also, BD-rom drives on PC,would be preferable due to greater storage capacity, something that,will make backing up of large filesets easier. 

New,manufactoring equptment cost will be absorbed via mass production of,the disks.  Not to mention, having blu-ray in a console will sell,millions of people blu-ray drives, making it easy for the consumers to,adobt the new tech, and giving a wide audiance to studios.



Considering,a 1080p movie can fit onto a single DL DVD without much noticeable,compression (Terminator 2), HD-DVD should be fine and should support,even less compression.  Considering we lived with 480i for 50,years, 1080p should last quite awhile, at least until we no longer need,optical discs at all.  In the future, we'll stream movies over the,internet or download them from an iTunes-like movie store.


what,about features that are longer than the 2-3 hours you see for,movies?  Stuff like television shows, anime, mini series,,etc?  HD-dvd would still run into space problems long before,blu-ray would. 

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