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I Only Post Everything
Registered: 01/21/2014
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Re: PS+ Refund When Unable To Use The PSN?

Jun 26, 2014

I feel that anytime there is a contract regarding a product that is used over time and there is an expectation of a minimum set of uptime then the company that is providing said service should meet the set upon uptime or compensate for the remainder.

 

You cannot realisticly expect PSN to be up 24/7, 365 days a year. You can expect it to be up a good 90-95% of that time however. Should Sonys service go down for any reason (repair, update, power outage, attacks, whatever) but not more than a reasonable amount of time throughout the year (which should be stated in the contract) then we should receive no compensation.

 

If however their service goes down for more than a reasonable amount of time then they should compensate us and it should be written into the contract to do so. They can set it up as an annual, quarterly, monthly or even daily expectation of uptime.

 

As a consumer, if Sony stated that their service is guaranteed to be up at least 95% of the time and that on occasion due to maintenance and/or other reasons including force majeure they will not be able to provide service 100% of the time then I wouldn't be bent on the ~5% down time. Personally I would see it as a $70 dollar service that they have discounted me down to $50 for the sake of expected future downtime inconveniences.

 

 

Below is long, ramblin and off topic, but relevant to contracts.

 

Spoiler

On a much broader sense, we are at a point where everything comes with a contract for the consumer. And each contract is 50-200 pages long. It's ridiculous. Even when you buy something at a store like Best Buy, you look at the back of the receipt and they have a contract on it. (I hate this practice by the way. I've already paid for the product and received it. How can you expect I should honor a contract handed to me after the sale and receipt of a product?)

 

Anyways, every company out there is protecting themselves with these HUGE contracts that one cannot realistically expect to read and/or understand let alone keep track of. If a company like Sony has 100 lawyers write out a contract for a service like PSN how am I as an individual expected to read it all, understand it fully and be held accountable to it? I know the "simple" solution is to simply not purchase something if you don't want to deal with the contract, but then one wouldn't have hardly anything of value in this world. Cell phones, Cable TV, Gym memberships... the list is endless. You either accept the HUGE pile of garbage contract they strap you with or you get nothing.

 

I feel like there should be a way for us as individuals and consumers to protect ourselves from unwarranted contracts/contract stipulations. If there was a way for us to en masse refuse to purchase anything with an unreasonable lengthy contract it would force companies to stop this horrible practice. I wish there was a service that would educate us on what these contracts are really binding us to, how to know which contracts are worth getting into and which ones we should refuse. I wish there was a way for us to work together as a united buyer instead of disjointed consumers so that we didn't have to just accept contracts that are not reasonable.

 

I would like to see someone list out all of the contract traps that truly hurt consumers and explain how. Then have all major contracts for products and services in the market reviewed for any of these contract traps. If a contract is found to hold any point that is harmful to the consumers beyone reasonable expectation it goes on the list and we as consumers can boycott all products on that list until the company removes the points that got it on that list originally.

 

(just an example: If a contract states "if you 'like' us in any social media you waive your rights to sue us for any reasons) <-- if that was in a contract it goes on the list. People refuse to purchase anything that binds us to that contract and company is forced to remove it from their contract or lose our business. I've said more than 2 cents so I'll end here.

 

 

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MVP Support
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Re: PS+ Compensation When Unable To Use The PSN?

[ Edited ]
Jun 26, 2014

I believe if we don't have access to the services provided for a full 12-24 hours *(unless notified in advance), we should be compensated either through giving out store credits (depending on the length of the outage) or extending us our Plus membership (depending on the length of the outage). At this point there's no reason Sony shouldn't be able to compensate plus members, online mp isn't free anymore and people are expecting to have a more stable, hassle-free experience.


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Lombax Warrior
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Re: PS+ Compensation When Unable To Use The PSN?

Jun 26, 2014

Again no. Even if it was out a entire day. There are a hundred other things you could do to wait for it to come back up. Sony does not have to have psn up 24/7. Only time anyone should be compensated is if it goes down like the hack a few years back.

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Re: PS+ Compensation When Unable To Use The PSN?

Jun 26, 2014

That's sounds.... A bit.... Entitled.

 

 

I didn't notice the PSN was down today.... Because I was WORKING. 

 

So how would this compensation work, for those who weren't affected by the outage because they work for a period of time when the network was down? 

 

That would basically mean EVERY single one of the 50-60% of PS4 owners that have a Plus account, would have to be compensated, regardless if they were actually affected otherwise. 

 

Sony, decides to operate this way. Other companies mentioned before... That's on them on how they want to work outages for games. Just because there are a few companies who 'do the right thing' doesn't dictate that every company has to do it. 

 

Outages are expected to happen. Deal with it.

 

A few hours? Puh-lease. Go outside, go to the movies, clean the house... You'll barely notice the network was down. 

Making video games a large aspect of your life to warrant compensation for missing out on online features for a short period of time is a bad way to think. I can understand there are some people who don't have such a choice.... And it sucks for them. But I'd rather say no to everybody, than yes to a few people. 

 

You're not going to change how Sony conducts their business just because you feel entitled to compensation the moment you don't have access to specific things you're supposed to have access to. 

 

OBVIOUSLY, Sony has made an exception for it in the past when the PSN was taken offline for nearly a month. Exceptions can be made, but it doesn't have to be written in stone for it to be possible. 

 

Deal with it slide

Logic, who would've thought eh? Oh wait.... No one thinks anymore.
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Re: PS+ Compensation When Unable To Use The PSN?

Jun 26, 2014

gR3yGh051 wrote:

 

A few hours? Puh-lease. Go outside, go to the movies, clean the house... You'll barely notice the network was down. 

Making video games a large aspect of your life to warrant compensation for missing out on online features for a short period of time is a bad way to think. I can understand there are some people who don't have such a choice.... And it sucks for them. But I'd rather say no to everybody, than yes to a few people. 

 


 


Well yea, weekdays are fine since most people are at work, school etc. But outages could happen during weekends when people just want to stay home and enjoy some online play. I completely understand your argument, but when you're paying for a service you do expect it to work when needed. Having it down for an extended period of time just causes frustration to the consumer. Like I said, during weekends when people just want to relax don't want to deal with outages. So compensation should be warranted depending on the severity of the outage.


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Re: PS+ Compensation When Unable To Use The PSN?

Jun 26, 2014

Emerald_Swords wrote:

gR3yGh051 wrote:

 

A few hours? Puh-lease. Go outside, go to the movies, clean the house... You'll barely notice the network was down. 

Making video games a large aspect of your life to warrant compensation for missing out on online features for a short period of time is a bad way to think. I can understand there are some people who don't have such a choice.... And it sucks for them. But I'd rather say no to everybody, than yes to a few people. 

 


 


Well yea, weekdays are fine since most people are at work, school etc. But outages could happen during weekends when people just want to stay home and enjoy some online play. I completely understand your argument, but when you're paying for a service you do expect it to work when needed. Having it down for an extended period of time just causes frustration to the consumer. Like I said, during weekends when people just want to relax don't want to deal with outages. So compensation should be warranted depending on the severity of the outage.


But there is ALWAYS going to be unexpected downtime. I don't expect to be compensated for it. Because I have so many other things I can do with my time.

 

Anything man made is expected to fail. Especially the more complicated it is.

There are many other services that do the same,.. They do not compensate for loss of service.

That decision is up to the company and not a right to customers. 

 

You agreed to the terms and conditions set forth. Regardless if you have read them or not. Being willfully ignorant of them is not justification for complaining that it SHOULD happen, just because they're swell guys. 

Morality doesn't hold much water in business. More people should understand

Logic, who would've thought eh? Oh wait.... No one thinks anymore.
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Re: PS+ Compensation When Unable To Use The PSN?

[ Edited ]
Jun 26, 2014

PSN is required for Online multiplayer but you can still access PSN, as in:  create a PSN account, access the PS store, buy games, etc. Saying that you can't access the PSN without PS+ is misleading.

----------

 

What the OP feels here is just a small pebble of what is to come in the future of the "internet of thing" When the oldest standing generation in made of those being born today. Those who literally will grow with everything at their fingertips & pacified by pretty looking user interfaces in closed company environments. In that world, when the network goes down for maintenance, what then?  Will this be the spark of a new reformation, a Technological Internet/telecommunication Reformation? thinking.gif  Does anybody wants to run with that ^^^^^^ ?

 

 

The reason these statements are included in ToS & the like, is because of the "nickeling-and-diming" mess that would arise from logical & acceptable suspension of service due to scheduled & unscheduled network infrastructure maintenance. 

Be it scheduled or not  most issues should be solvable within hours [less than 24hs].  If the cause of the outage is major & takes longer than 3 days then I strongly believe some type of compensation to users should be considered. Starting with PS4 SONY made multiplayer a subscription service so compensation for outstanding outages should be met.

 

7FXb|Thunderstorm Summer[Twitter] @SevenFactors Welcoming Committee 2.0 MVP
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Re: PS+ Compensation When Unable To Use The PSN?

Jun 26, 2014

Gord0nDunk wrote:

PLYMCO_PILGRIM wrote:

 

I understand Sony has given out stuff in the past for things going wrong.  I just don't like how the TOS completely indemnifies them when services aren't provided.  I don't think it is right or respectful to us as consumers.

 

 


Have you ever read any TOS anywhere ever? They all basically spell out that they can do whatever they want, and the consumer has no right or recorse irregardless of the effect it has. 

 

This is the way things are, deal with it. They have to give themselves the ability to say "no" or suffer the wrath of the scammers.

 

I would rather judge by the exceptions they make, then the rights they have. 


I always read the TOS before accepting.  

 

Just because the TOS says something doesn't mean we all just have to sit back and accept it.  If that attitude prevailed slavery would still be legal in the USA today..........

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Re: PS+ Compensation When Unable To Use The PSN?

Jun 26, 2014

gR3yGh051 wrote:

 

Spoiler

That's sounds.... A bit.... Entitled.

 

 

I didn't notice the PSN was down today.... Because I was WORKING. 

 

So how would this compensation work, for those who weren't affected by the outage because they work for a period of time when the network was down? 

 

That would basically mean EVERY single one of the 50-60% of PS4 owners that have a Plus account, would have to be compensated, regardless if they were actually affected otherwise. 

 

Sony, decides to operate this way. Other companies mentioned before... That's on them on how they want to work outages for games. Just because there are a few companies who 'do the right thing' doesn't dictate that every company has to do it. 

 

Outages are expected to happen. Deal with it.

 

A few hours? Puh-lease. Go outside, go to the movies, clean the house... You'll barely notice the network was down. 

Making video games a large aspect of your life to warrant compensation for missing out on online features for a short period of time is a bad way to think. I can understand there are some people who don't have such a choice.... And it sucks for them. But I'd rather say no to everybody, than yes to a few people. 

 

You're not going to change how Sony conducts their business just because you feel entitled to compensation the moment you don't have access to specific things you're supposed to have access to. 

 

OBVIOUSLY, Sony has made an exception for it in the past when the PSN was taken offline for nearly a month. Exceptions can be made, but it doesn't have to be written in stone for it to be possible. 

 

Deal with it slide

 

 


You know you may have some good points in here but your jackanapes attitude totally ruined any desire for a reasonable exhange.    I expect more from a fellow MVP, you are the 2nd MVP to be very dissapointing in this manner on this topic.  

 

Its fine to disagree but you don't have to toss so much codswollop in there, try disagreeing based on principle and not insult in the future and I'll be more than happy to go back and forth with you on the topic.  

 

 

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Re: PS+ Compensation When Unable To Use The PSN?

[ Edited ]
Jun 26, 2014

awtacular wrote:

NinjaZeroEight wrote:

I haven't read every single post, so I'm not sure if someone mentioned it but, does anyone get a refund if their cable TV goes down? Or if their internet goes down? We sure as hell don't here in Canada, so I definitely don't expect Sony to refund me any money if they need to do maintenance if my ISP can't refund me. I guess I'm just used to this kind of service (not saying it's right, just saying I'm used to it). 

If other people get refunds for outages, whether that's TV or internet or whatever, then I could see those people feeling that they're owed a refund from the PS+ serivce whenever there's maintenance.

I feel like my ISP should pay me for having internet with them... but that's just me, an angry Canadian who has to deal with behind-the-times-internet.


I brought this up as well. For the most part no they don't refund or credit you. The only time they might is if it's for days at a time. You may be able to get a credit of some sort if you're one of those idiots willing to waste hours of their time on the phone talking to 20 different people just to save a dollar. I'm not and a  few cents or couple dollars isn't going to make or break me. As for Canada being behind the times, well you're part of North America and the entire infrastructure for everything in the US is dated...


Again my cable compnay, comcast cable (massachussetts), provides a credit for 1 day if your cable/internet/phone goes down for more than a few hours as you have to prepay for their services.   Just like we prepay for plus.    I've been told time warner does the same but with them you don't have to call for the credit, they automatically give it to you (New York on that)

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