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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 11/10/2002
Offline
8277 posts
 

Re: PS3 - Virtually Lag Free?

Jun 10, 2005

,
,
,snowcrash wrote:
,
,
Another inside scoop from my friend, a friend who also told me about dual video outputs.
,
 
,
He received updated programming libraries from Sony several days ago and one of the libraries has "cell grid online" functions.  And this functions can do virtually unlimited number of players online with no lag.  With this function, the game doesn't have to be connected to every online player.  A single PS3 will connect upto 6 players in x amount of online players, and other 6 players will do the same thing, connecting upto other 6 players in cell grid mode.   For example, I send some data to 6 people, and 6 people who received the data will also send the data to 6 people, which is total of 32 people(6 x 6) and on and on.  This was possible with no relay lag because of cell grid technology,  cell puts into grid mode immediately and opens socket for real-time streaming for online game. It doesn't matter how many people are on online, you are only connecting upto 6 players.  He also explained to me what if people disconnects from internet, he says there is a library function that cell automatically looks for other cells(other online player) and opens socket.

,
,

So it's like the bittorrent network?,
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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 08/28/2002
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9595 posts
 

Re: PS3 - Virtually Lag Free?

Jun 10, 2005

,
,
,Steppy76 wrote:

,
,
,snowcrash wrote:

,
,
,Steppy76 wrote:

,
,
,snowcrash wrote:
,
,
Another inside scoop from my friend, a friend who also told me about dual video outputs.
,
 
,
He received updated programming libraries from Sony several days ago and one of the libraries has "cell grid online" functions.  And this functions can do virtually unlimited number of players online with no lag.  With this function, the game doesn't have to be connected to every online player.  A single PS3 will connect upto 6 players in x amount of online players, and other 6 players will do the same thing, connecting upto other 6 players in cell grid mode.   For example, I send some data to 6 people, and 6 people who received the data will also send the data to 6 people, which is total of 32 people(6 x 6) and on and on.  This was possible with no relay lag because of cell grid technology,  cell puts into grid mode immediately and opens socket for real-time streaming for online game. It doesn't matter how many people are on online, you are only connecting upto 6 players.  He also explained to me what if people disconnects from internet, he says there is a library function that cell automatically looks for other cells(other online player) and opens socket.

,
,
Lag is primarily caused by the internet connection, NOT processing.  This may up the total number of possible people that can play, but that still is primarily governed by everybodies connection...current processors can already pump out more data than any of our internet connections could hope to handle. 
,

,
,
did i say anything about processing? it uses cell grid functions to avoid any lag on online.  you would know if you play mmorpg, if you have 60 ppl on same screen, you'll notice lag because you are connecting to all 60 people, with ps3 you don't need to connected to all 60 people.
,

,
,

No, you will notice lag because even the faster connections take a minimum of a half a second for a button press to be received by other players.  What you are talking about is also not "lag", it's the amount of things being rendered at a given time are too much for the game engine to handle...and these functions also have nothing to do with that.  No "grid functions" are going to be able to remove lag.  What it does do is save the bandwidth being sent around allowing more people to connect, it will NOT reduce lag though.  Most of this is irrelevant to a MMORPGs as those have dedicated servers...these functions would apply purely to peer to peer based connections.  ,

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,

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if you are talking about true real-time, of course there is no true lag free, like there is no true "digital" in digital sound. 
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the lag i'm talking about is lag that happenes in gaming when there are lot of ppl on online. 
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and "saved the bandwidth" means no lag right?   
Hideo Kojima, "You're looking at the key to winning the console war."

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Splicer
Registered: 06/07/2005
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49 posts
 

Re: PS3 - Virtually Lag Free?

Jun 10, 2005
BAN ALL 56Kers FROM THE PS3 AND ALL WILL BE WELL!
,
Shleprock has better luck than i do
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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 03/16/2005
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2101 posts
 

Re: PS3 - Virtually Lag Free?

Jun 10, 2005
I made this diagram to try to make sense of it. Tell me if it's wrong.

One person sends a signal to 6 people and each one of those people sends a signal to 6 more people. The only problem is there are a total of 43 people.

Message Edited by The Big Hurt on 06-09-2005 07:26 PM

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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 08/28/2002
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9595 posts
 

Re: PS3 - Virtually Lag Free?

Jun 10, 2005

,
,
,The Big Hurt wrote:
I made this diagram to try to make sense of it. Tell me if it's wrong.

One person sends a signal to 6 people and each one of those people sends a signal to 6 more people.


,
,
,

yeah something like that but with this kinda diagram..

,

 

,

,

 

,

this pic is not a good example, but let say each point represents "player" and connects to other two player(instead of 6).

,
Hideo Kojima, "You're looking at the key to winning the console war."

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I Only Post Everything
Registered: 03/30/2005
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1379 posts
 

Re: PS3 - Virtually Lag Free?

Jun 10, 2005
wooo another almost correct guy its going to be broad band only we are tired of newbs lagging
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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 08/28/2002
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9595 posts
 

Re: PS3 - Virtually Lag Free?

Jun 10, 2005

,
,
,Llama Herder wrote:

,
,
,snowcrash wrote:
,
,
Another inside scoop from my friend, a friend who also told me about dual video outputs.
,
 
,
He received updated programming libraries from Sony several days ago and one of the libraries has "cell grid online" functions.  And this functions can do virtually unlimited number of players online with no lag.  With this function, the game doesn't have to be connected to every online player.  A single PS3 will connect upto 6 players in x amount of online players, and other 6 players will do the same thing, connecting upto other 6 players in cell grid mode.   For example, I send some data to 6 people, and 6 people who received the data will also send the data to 6 people, which is total of 32 people(6 x 6) and on and on.  This was possible with no relay lag because of cell grid technology,  cell puts into grid mode immediately and opens socket for real-time streaming for online game. It doesn't matter how many people are on online, you are only connecting upto 6 players.  He also explained to me what if people disconnects from internet, he says there is a library function that cell automatically looks for other cells(other online player) and opens socket.

,
,

So it's like the bittorrent network? ,

,
,
i don't think so, doesn't bittorrent gets bits of info from many people?
,
Hideo Kojima, "You're looking at the key to winning the console war."

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Sackboy
Registered: 05/18/2005
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471 posts
 

Re: PS3 - Virtually Lag Free?

Jun 10, 2005
I can understant how the theory would seem to remedy lag, but I cant see it making a major difference.
,
,You can either receive/send lots of small packets to many players; or
,
,You can send/recieve large packets from fewer people.
,
,If you can only send a certain ammount of data at a time, how does the new method reduce the load?
,
,
,
"Our ideal is for consumers to think to themselves, 'OK, I'll work more hours and buy it.' We want people to feel that they want it, no matter what." - Ken Kutaragi



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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 08/28/2002
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9595 posts
 

Re: PS3 - Virtually Lag Free?

Jun 10, 2005

,
,
,Batista20 wrote:
I can understant how the theory would seem to remedy lag, but I cant see it making a major difference.

You can either receive/send lots of small packets to many players; or

You can send/recieve large packets from fewer people.

If you can only send a certain ammount of data at a time, how does the new method reduce the load?


,

,
,
it streams packets using socket to fewer people than all the people that are online.  for example, there are four people(to make it simple), i need to send data to all four people. but instead i send a data to person B, and person B will send same data to person C and D.  and when i receive data from more than one person, i'll accept the data from person who receive the data first.  this was possible with no relay lag because of cell grid functions.
,
Hideo Kojima, "You're looking at the key to winning the console war."

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Fender Bender
Registered: 04/11/2004
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3003 posts
 

Re: PS3 - Virtually Lag Free?

Jun 10, 2005

,
,
,snowcrash wrote:

,
,
,Steppy76 wrote:

,
,
,snowcrash wrote:

,
,
,Steppy76 wrote:

,
,
,snowcrash wrote:
,
,
Another inside scoop from my friend, a friend who also told me about dual video outputs.
,
 
,
He received updated programming libraries from Sony several days ago and one of the libraries has "cell grid online" functions.  And this functions can do virtually unlimited number of players online with no lag.  With this function, the game doesn't have to be connected to every online player.  A single PS3 will connect upto 6 players in x amount of online players, and other 6 players will do the same thing, connecting upto other 6 players in cell grid mode.   For example, I send some data to 6 people, and 6 people who received the data will also send the data to 6 people, which is total of 32 people(6 x 6) and on and on.  This was possible with no relay lag because of cell grid technology,  cell puts into grid mode immediately and opens socket for real-time streaming for online game. It doesn't matter how many people are on online, you are only connecting upto 6 players.  He also explained to me what if people disconnects from internet, he says there is a library function that cell automatically looks for other cells(other online player) and opens socket.

,
,
Lag is primarily caused by the internet connection, NOT processing.  This may up the total number of possible people that can play, but that still is primarily governed by everybodies connection...current processors can already pump out more data than any of our internet connections could hope to handle. 
,

,
,
did i say anything about processing? it uses cell grid functions to avoid any lag on online.  you would know if you play mmorpg, if you have 60 ppl on same screen, you'll notice lag because you are connecting to all 60 people, with ps3 you don't need to connected to all 60 people.
,

,
,

No, you will notice lag because even the faster connections take a minimum of a half a second for a button press to be received by other players.  What you are talking about is also not "lag", it's the amount of things being rendered at a given time are too much for the game engine to handle...and these functions also have nothing to do with that.  No "grid functions" are going to be able to remove lag.  What it does do is save the bandwidth being sent around allowing more people to connect, it will NOT reduce lag though.  Most of this is irrelevant to a MMORPGs as those have dedicated servers...these functions would apply purely to peer to peer based connections.  ,

,
,

,
if you are talking about true real-time, of course there is no true lag free, like there is no true "digital" in digital sound. 
,
the lag i'm talking about is lag that happenes in gaming when there are lot of ppl on online. 
,
and "saved the bandwidth" means no lag right?   

,
,
That is NOT lag, that is the game engine rendering more than it is capable of...call it frame dropping or whatever.  The same thing will happen if you took the game offline and had the same number of "monsters" on screen at once.  Saving bandwidth will allow more players to connect before the bandwidth required is "saturated"...nothing more, nothing less.  LAG itself is inherent to an internet connection and will be for quite some time and there is nothing that can really be done about it.   
,
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