Reply
Highlighted
Wastelander
Registered: 06/21/2011
Offline
646 posts
 

Re: Playstation 3 Downloads Gone for Good? Screwed by Sony?

Apr 23, 2013

kythunder wrote:

for some reason people are thinking their ps3 will explode sitting next to a ps4..i just don't get it..


My PS3 can't explode next to my PS4, if there's no room to put my PS3 next to my PS4.  That is the issue for many.

Message 21 of 53 (183 Views)
Big Daddy
Registered: 12/24/2007
Offline
16939 posts
 

Re: Playstation 3 Downloads Gone for Good? Screwed by Sony?

Apr 23, 2013

kythunder wrote:

for some reason people are thinking their ps3 will explode sitting next to a ps4..i just don't get it..


Idiots always think that way when they REFUSE to try to understand things.

Furiously Chaosing
Message 22 of 53 (178 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Fender Bender
Registered: 11/10/2006
Offline
2785 posts
 

Re: Playstation 3 Downloads Gone for Good? Screwed by Sony?

[ Edited ]
Apr 23, 2013

Sony might allow people to transfer their PSN purchases to the PS4 because they have a record of what you bought, so you might be able to play them through Gaikai. Not having backwards compatibility is my biggest disappointment with the PS4…

 

I can keep my PS3 hooked up alongside my PS4 but when my PS3 breaks, I won't buy another PS3. I know full well my PS3 won't explode if I have it hooked up alongside my PS4. I just prefer an "all in one device". It's much better in my opinion. When I buy a new device, I like to replace my old one. That is my preference. As I said, I can keep my PS3 hooked up but when it breaks, that will be a huge problem and I already said I won't buy another PS3.

 

 

Message 23 of 53 (173 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Umbrella Scientist
Registered: 12/08/2008
Offline
12328 posts
 

Re: Playstation 3 Downloads Gone for Good? Screwed by Sony?

Apr 23, 2013

gR3yGh051 wrote:

xenoranger1979 wrote:

Between the local game shops and articles I've read online, I've been hearing that Sony will make all Playstation 3 downloads non-transferrable to the Playstation 4. If this happens, the crap ton of games and content I've purchased is pretty much gone-gone. I know my Rock Band and Guitar Hero have about 1,000 songs. I also have Buzz with almost all the quiz packs. 

 

I understand the Playstation 4 will not be backwards compatible for Disc-Based PS3 titles. I absolutely hate this notion, but I understand that Sony is going to do what lines their pockets best. I just don't understand why downloads purchased on PS3 would not be valid for PS4. I know I've spent over $1,500 in content from the network on my PS3 over the 4 years I've owned it. Like Steam and other digital game outlets, I want my previous purchases to still function on newer systems. 

 

So, if the rumors are true, then we're all screwed for downloading. We either have to repurchase anything we want to keep playing, or we lose those titles. 


Because PS3 games are ALL developed on a specific hardware architecture... the PS4 is going to use the more common PC architecture to make better use of hardware and make much easier to make games for, faster.  This means that PS3 games WILL NOT be able to run on PS4 hardware.

 

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

This is such BS.

 

Did the PSP run on PS3 hardware?  Does the Vita?  They both play PSN games fine.

 

Are the PS2 games on PSN recoded to run on PS3 hardware?  No they are software emulated.

 

PS1 games were not designed to be run on the PS2/PS3, but easily were on PS2 and PS3.

 

There may be a few PSN games that were solely developed for PS3, and may be tough to run on PS4, but most can be run on a handhled today with nothing in common with the cell.

 

Any game which can be played on a PSP the PS4 would have no troubles running these same games.

 

As you know it has been stated by Sony themselves that many disc based ps3 games could be run on the PS4, if they wanted to.

 

Its all time and money, Sony should do presales on games they have not presented for us yet to raise cash.  Like kickstarter, if the cash isnt raised it doesnt happen.

 

 

Na13-31 wrote:
Finally, the structure of my question is that you would have to disprove every possible outcome to be correct and I would just have to have one that would likely be beneficial. That's statistically in my favor by quite a bit.


some_text
Message 24 of 53 (164 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Umbrella Scientist
Registered: 12/08/2008
Offline
12328 posts
 

Re: Playstation 3 Downloads Gone for Good? Screwed by Sony?

Apr 23, 2013

psxsage wrote:

You paid for the software for use with the PS3...your complaining it may not work with the PS4...if you bought a casette tape in the 80s are  you also complaining your collection will not work inside a CD player?


I was wondering why my lazer discs would not fit in my hello kitty cd player, you have cleared up a lot today good sir.

 

But you are talking about format changes.  As far as we know the PS4 uses the exact same format, namely Bluray.

 

Now how do you get a cassette out of the disc slot?

Na13-31 wrote:
Finally, the structure of my question is that you would have to disprove every possible outcome to be correct and I would just have to have one that would likely be beneficial. That's statistically in my favor by quite a bit.


some_text
Message 25 of 53 (162 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Umbrella Scientist
Registered: 12/08/2008
Offline
12328 posts
 

Re: Playstation 3 Downloads Gone for Good? Screwed by Sony?

Apr 23, 2013

Doppelgangergang wrote:

The biggest barrier to explaining Backwards Compatibility is the difficulty of explaining technical issues.

 

Anyway, I'll try my best:

 

--------------------------------------

 

There is a programming language called Assembly. Assembly is unique to each and every CPU Model out there, with each their own set of instructions. While all Assembly code looks more or less the same (a long list of instructions fed to the CPU), Assembly has to be tailored to the CPU you are programming on. So ASM codes from one CPU does NOT work on another if it has different instruction sets.

 

At the expense of speed, you can opt for "Higher Level" programming languages such as C. The compiler then translates the C code to Assembly. As you'd expect, having an interpreter at the middle of your code to the CPU causes a slight performance hit. However you can reuse the C code across multiple platforms because the Compiler takes care of translating it to Assembly.

 


xenoranger1979 wrote:

If I bought software through Steam, I could still use it several OS's later. 


Simple Answer: The PC has been using the same X86 instruction set for years.

 

That's why programs from Windows XP still works on 7, because it never changed. The only changes over the years were the addition of extensions and new instructions (many are short cuts that combine many instructions into one) but if you really look at the command list, you can even see instructions there that are as old as 1985.

 

You can even install Windows 7 on hardware that came out in the early 90's. Or install Windows 95 on a PC that came out 10 years later.

 

Why? Same instruction set. Smiley Happy

 

 

 

Which brings me to this:


xenoranger1979 wrote:
Content I purchased for XBox will work on the 360.

 


The "Other Box" relies on emulation. You'll have to run an extra program (the emulator) that translates whatever language the XB1 uses to instructions the XB360 can understand. Because Assembly is so low-level, it's not only fast, but insanely sensitive to how fast and how accurate the emulator does it's job. Too slow, you'll have glitches, lag, sync issues and/or the game will crash. Too fast and you might be causing glitches and crashes. And if it's too inaccurate, you'll have compatibility issues.


And incompatibility issues there were: The list of XB games that are Backward Compatible are chock-full of glitches and issues, some very dangerous like "extreme data corruption to random files on your HDD" or "DLC will corrupt if the [console's] hard drive."

 

 


xenoranger1979 wrote:

Why won't content from PS3 work on the PS4?




And then to cut this post short, the PS3 is just simply too complex to reasonably emulate because of it's unique instruction set (some are not even implemented in x86), it's multicore architecture (requiring the emulator to juggle many streams of instructions at once, and requiring that every instruction stream is synchronized with each other) and the different timings of each instruction that have to be replicated (some assembly instructions require 1 cycle, some three, some two, etc.) and then the Quality Assurance is just massive (you'll have to test every PS3 game out there).


So you admit its possible, but would likely take too much time and money.  Good many here try to claim its not possible despite high ranking Sony officials publicly stating it is indeed completely 100% possible with some games.

 

People keep on about this topic because it is possible, and could be the source of income instead of a financial drain.

 

Once they emulate the games, they sell them.  Or do you truely believe the emulation would cost more then it originally cost to build the game from scratch?  If that is the case, and it is cheaper to rebuild the game from scratch then do that.  PS4 is suppossed to be much, much simpler and faster to create games on then the PS3 was, so a game which took 2 months would now only take a week. or so.

 

My idea of Sony allowing us to prepay for games we want to see ported over would create a starter fund to allow them to spend a bit of time and money on this.

 

For a one time investment by Sony(Per game) they get to resell it indefinitely digitally so all they pay is upload speed and make close to pure profit forever on that title.

The PS4 gets a hefty launch portfolio of established and well loved games, with the promise of better then ever performance.

People buy more PS4's at launch because the catalog of games makes increases the value of the console.

 

Knowing the consoles will lauch with 1 or 2 games you will like means many less people will buy at launch.

I have bought every Sony console at launch, the PS4 may be the first one I wait for a year or two, I'll bet I'm not the only one.

 

If Sony doesnt seel many PS4's at launch, well we will all know exactly why.

 

I'm hopeful about the Gaikai possibilities and may wait a few years for that to materialize, I'm guessing sometime in 2015 or 2016.

 

Cheers.

Na13-31 wrote:
Finally, the structure of my question is that you would have to disprove every possible outcome to be correct and I would just have to have one that would likely be beneficial. That's statistically in my favor by quite a bit.


some_text
Message 26 of 53 (156 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Umbrella Scientist
Registered: 12/08/2008
Offline
12328 posts
 

Re: Playstation 3 Downloads Gone for Good? Screwed by Sony?

Apr 23, 2013

gR3yGh051 wrote:

kythunder wrote:

for some reason people are thinking their ps3 will explode sitting next to a ps4..i just don't get it..


Idiots always think that way when they REFUSE to try to understand things.


I know its like the people here who cant get it through their heads that the PS4 could totally play PS3 games if Sony cared about such things.

 

But you know "Idiots always think that way when they REFUSE to try to understand things."

 

Its kinda sad.

Na13-31 wrote:
Finally, the structure of my question is that you would have to disprove every possible outcome to be correct and I would just have to have one that would likely be beneficial. That's statistically in my favor by quite a bit.


some_text
Message 27 of 53 (154 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 04/05/2009
Online
8176 posts
 

Re: Playstation 3 Downloads Gone for Good? Screwed by Sony?

Apr 23, 2013

Phillyblunz wrote:

So you admit its possible, but would likely take too much time and money.  Good many here try to claim its not possible despite high ranking Sony officials publicly stating it is indeed completely 100% possible with some games.

Cheers.


Yeah... It's going to be possible... If they somehow emulate the SPE Instruction Set (A collosal 270+ page textbook is required to describe all of them) plus the PowerPC Instruction set (200+ pages) and then the RSX Assembly Language (Data not publicly available as far as I can dig).

 

And then somehow emulate all those instructions on x86 accurately at the right speed. Plus the difference of GDDR5 vs XDR and GDDR3 also factors in, because the latency (response time) of them are different (again, more difficulties for people who'll write the emulator).

 

This is why emulation is never going to be perfect.

 

A PS3 emulator working with 25% of all games running on PS4? It's an extremely long shot if you ask me. Smiley Frustrated

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I've wasted enough time on BC topics. I'm probably not posting in them anymore.

Message 28 of 53 (143 Views)
I Only Post Everything
Registered: 12/22/2008
Offline
926 posts
 

Re: Playstation 3 Downloads Gone for Good? Screwed by Sony?

Apr 23, 2013

Doppelgangergang wrote:

Phillyblunz wrote:

So you admit its possible, but would likely take too much time and money.  Good many here try to claim its not possible despite high ranking Sony officials publicly stating it is indeed completely 100% possible with some games.

Cheers.


Yeah... It's going to be possible... If they somehow emulate the SPE Instruction Set (A collosal 270+ page textbook is required to describe all of them) plus the PowerPC Instruction set (200+ pages) and then the RSX Assembly Language (Data not publicly available as far as I can dig).

 

And then somehow emulate all those instructions on x86 accurately at the right speed. Plus the difference of GDDR5 vs XDR and GDDR3 also factors in, because the latency (response time) of them are different (again, more difficulties for people who'll write the emulator).

 

This is why emulation is never going to be perfect.

 

A PS3 emulator working with 25% of all games running on PS4? It's an extremely long shot if you ask me. Smiley Frustrated

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I've wasted enough time on BC topics. I'm probably not posting in them anymore.


Exactly, and to be honest, there's no need to respond to an individual like this.  He obviously doesn't understand programming and what is involved, or how emulation works, or how CPU architechture works.  His mind has been made and he had no desire to understand anything further.  Trying to explain to him all the details about this is uselss.  As far as he's concerned, "if it's on a disc, it can be played."  I just pray to god that he NEVER gets a job in finance or engineering, as many people could be hurt.

Message 29 of 53 (138 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Big Daddy
Registered: 12/24/2007
Offline
16939 posts
 

Re: Playstation 3 Downloads Gone for Good? Screwed by Sony?

Apr 23, 2013

Phillyblunz wrote:

gR3yGh051 wrote:

kythunder wrote:

for some reason people are thinking their ps3 will explode sitting next to a ps4..i just don't get it..


Idiots always think that way when they REFUSE to try to understand things.


I know its like the people here who cant get it through their heads that the PS4 could totally play PS3 games if Sony cared about such things.

 

But you know "Idiots always think that way when they REFUSE to try to understand things."

 

Its kinda sad.


Rather than try to logically, factually, and sensically give you the various points as to why 1) its a bad idea 2)bad business sense 3) for the sake of anyone who posses the cognitive abilities which come with the territory of having common sense, logical thought and a general idea as to how programming works, i'll just say the following:

 

Stop trying to play the irate gamer/customer card as if YOU know any better.

Furiously Chaosing
Message 30 of 53 (128 Views)