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Monster Hunter
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Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

Sony dropped it's projected sales of all PS mobile units (PSP and PS Vita) from 12 million to 10 million worldwide.  Given that the 2012 sales of PS Vita were only 2.2 million, and even if you gave a 50% increase in sales of the Vita in 2013 (which would be nothing short of a miracle), you still have the Vita only accounting for 3.3 million units.  That means Sony plans on selling roughly 6.5 million PSP units worldwide this year. 

 

While Sony has been very stingy releasing sales figures for the two product lines (go figure), any reasonable analysis shows that even Sony knows that PSP is the more viable product as we go into 2013.

 

I think people get me wrong.  I'd love to own a Vita.  I just want to have the functionality, gaming catalog, and pricing in line first.  I love my PSP, I have no reason not to think I'd love a Vita.  I just don't want to shell out $500 to have so many unresolved issues with the new device.  A price drop will help, and I will likely sell off my PSP stuff, which will also help.  

 

I love being called a moron because I have lingering concerns about updating to a device that doesn't answer all my questions.  I get that most PSP users probably don't use the TV Out functionality, but I do, and I travel a lot so it's important to me.  In 2008 Time Magazine listed the PSP as the "must have" travel device of the year, and that was one reason why.  The PS Vita could have the same standing.  It's not just an extension of the PS3.  Like the PSP, it should be able to hold it's own as a standalone gaming system.  But I don't see a projected release date for God of War: Ascension for PS Vita, only PS3.  I don't see Vita releases for a lot of PS3 games that are highly anticipated.  Like many PSP owners, I don't own a PS3, and the same will likely be true for Vita owners, if the system gains traction.  I don't want to play my PS3 game on my Vita, I want to play my Vita game on my Vita.  I just don't see the same level of investment in title releases as we did with the PSP.

 

Call me names if you like, I'm still the guy that Sony needs to convince if the PS Vita is going to gain any traction.  I'm not unique.  UMD games and movies are cheap (like $2 cheap) at GameStop, and that's where I have procured them.  It would cost me 3 or 4 times what I spent to get them to buy them through the PS Store now for a Vita.  I'm not ready to dump them all yet.  I'm sorry, I'm just not.  And while I appreciate the defense that has been offered for the proprietary memory cards for the Vita, memory cards aren't what allowed hacking and piracy in the PSP.  And to think that those cards will prevent it in the Vita is ridiculous.  People have already found exploits in some of the games and used them to play crappy old Nintendo games (I still can't figure out why you would waste the time).  

 

I will buy a Vita at some point, I'm pretty sure.  But my point is that Sony has set the table for the response the Vita has received.  The user base has raised these concerns and we have received very few answers.  It's not that we're all a bunch of haters, but if you love your PSP, there are very few reasons to invest in a PS Vita until some of those concerns are answered.  If the case were otherwise, the sales figures would be different.  The 3DS is still killing the Vita, it's not even close.  One of the reasons is backwards compatibility.  3DS owners can still play their DS Lite, DSi, and DSi XL games on it.  Vita owners can't say the same thing.  The PSP Go is the perfect poster child for what is happening with the Vita.  I don't want Vita to fail, but I've run businesses long enough to recognize a losing strategy when I see one.  Sony needs a massive course correction on the Vita, and fast.

 

As far as pricing, I understand (probably better than most) what the strategies are and why they are.  $250 doesn't seem unreasonable for the Vita, by 2008 standards, but there are new competitors in the field that are drawing that market away at a $200 price point.  The Vita isn't competing with PS2/3, XBox and Wii ... it's competing with Kindle Fire HD, Google Nexus, and iPod.  That's the new reality.  If Sony can't get to market at no higher than a $200 price point, even if it's just a promotional price for a time, and properly support it with a functionaly marketing strategy ... they are going to lose on price also.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

jimniner wrote:

 

You make my point for me.  When Apple updates the iPad, iPod or iPhone, you don't have to buy new versions of the apps/games you already own.  They just work.  When Sony updates it's portable gamer, you lose access to your old games.  You would think the PSP Go would have taught them this lesson.  Nobody bought that unit either.
 
 

You're mistaking firmware updates (Apple firmware iOS updates) for hardware refreshes.  The Vita is all new hardware.

 

Apple doesn't update firmware forever, either.  I believe only iPhone 4S models can get iOS 6 if I'm not mistaken.  iPads may be able to update but older iPads don't get some of the iOS6 features that the newest ones can have.

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Survivor
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Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

jimniner wrote:

 

You make my point for me.  When Apple updates the iPad, iPod or iPhone, you don't have to buy new versions of the apps/games you already own.  They just work.  When Sony updates it's portable gamer, you lose access to your old games.  You would think the PSP Go would have taught them this lesson.  Nobody bought that unit either.
 

That analogy is as misguided as the Blu Ray <-> DVD one. Apple devices all run on the same iOS, it's like a mini computer really. Furthermore, you are talking about 100% digital content whereas in the PSV <-> PSP scenario you are talking about physical formats. Sure, it's easy to say "Apple does it, Sony should too" but you are skipping on the very important part where there is physical media involved in the middle~.

 

Furthermore, if we would be looking at this from a strictly digital point of view, the media you've bought in your PSN during the PSP days works for the most part in the PSV. You don't have to repurchase your stuff again, you just have to pray the emulation is up to date~.

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Monster Hunter
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Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013
Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?
 
The big issue with the PSPgo was that Sony could rarely get the digital PSP versions to come out at the same time as the retail version, mainly because the digital rights were never mandated for PSP releases. So you had notable exceptions for a digital PSP games like FF VII Crisis Core and Kingdom Hearts. Not only was the PSPgo too expensive, you could only play a fraction of the PSP games available, so it isn't too surprising that it failed.

With the Vita, I believe practically all the retail games are available for digital download at the same time as the retail release

Apple uses the basically the same hardware (and same OS) for their line of products, so apps can easily be compatible. There is very little in common (technology wise) between the Vita and PSP. It took them months to make the Vita compatible with PSone and PSP games, and still not all of them are compatible...
 
 

But even when Apple completely redesigns a product like going from the iPhone 3 to 4, or 4S to 5, they always have the user in mind. People that bought the original iPhone (which is a far cry from the iPhone 5) can still use all their apps and games on their new phone if they upgrade to a 5.  If Sony was going to completely rework the hardware and software for the NGP (Vita), they should have completed the compatibility development before bringing it to market.  They did what Microsoft always does ... they rush the product to market and then ask the users to wait while they figure out how to fulfil the rest of the promises they made.  
 
Please don't get me wrong ... I know I'm mostly griping ... but I want the Vita to succeed, I really do.  I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of my PSP, and I'd like to extend that experience into the next generation of Sony portable.  What I don't want to do is buy into a second iteration of the PSP Go problem.  Sony told us all that the UMD was the way of the future, but that was crap.  We all generally knew it when they said it, but that was the format the games were available on.  To this day, the games (new) on UMD are the same price as in the PS Store (which is stupid).  If you buy the UMD version used (which most of us do), it's substantially cheaper than the download version.  These are the kinds of oversights that Sony needs to overcome.  Even if I had to mail my UMDs in to get download credits, I would do it, so long as I know I can carry over my favority games without buying them again.  I just can't see making the investment Sony is looking for with the Vita right now.  The value proposition just isn't there yet.
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Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

jimniner wrote:

Sony dropped it's projected sales of all PS mobile units (PSP and PS Vita) from 12 million to 10 million worldwide.  Given that the 2012 sales of PS Vita were only 2.2 million, and even if you gave a 50% increase in sales of the Vita in 2013 (which would be nothing short of a miracle), you still have the Vita only accounting for 3.3 million units.  That means Sony plans on selling roughly 6.5 million PSP units worldwide this year. 

 

While Sony has been very stingy releasing sales figures for the two product lines (go figure), any reasonable analysis shows that even Sony knows that PSP is the more viable product as we go into 2013.

 

I think people get me wrong.  I'd love to own a Vita.  I just want to have the functionality, gaming catalog, and pricing in line first.  I love my PSP, I have no reason not to think I'd love a Vita.  I just don't want to shell out $500 to have so many unresolved issues with the new device.  A price drop will help, and I will likely sell off my PSP stuff, which will also help.  

 

I love being called a moron because I have lingering concerns about updating to a device that doesn't answer all my questions.  I get that most PSP users probably don't use the TV Out functionality, but I do, and I travel a lot so it's important to me.  In 2008 Time Magazine listed the PSP as the "must have" travel device of the year, and that was one reason why.  The PS Vita could have the same standing.  It's not just an extension of the PS3.  Like the PSP, it should be able to hold it's own as a standalone gaming system.  But I don't see a projected release date for God of War: Ascension for PS Vita, only PS3.  I don't see Vita releases for a lot of PS3 games that are highly anticipated.  Like many PSP owners, I don't own a PS3, and the same will likely be true for Vita owners, if the system gains traction.  I don't want to play my PS3 game on my Vita, I want to play my Vita game on my Vita.  I just don't see the same level of investment in title releases as we did with the PSP.

 

Call me names if you like, I'm still the guy that Sony needs to convince if the PS Vita is going to gain any traction.  I'm not unique.  UMD games and movies are cheap (like $2 cheap) at GameStop, and that's where I have procured them.  It would cost me 3 or 4 times what I spent to get them to buy them through the PS Store now for a Vita.  I'm not ready to dump them all yet.  I'm sorry, I'm just not.  And while I appreciate the defense that has been offered for the proprietary memory cards for the Vita, memory cards aren't what allowed hacking and piracy in the PSP.  And to think that those cards will prevent it in the Vita is ridiculous.  People have already found exploits in some of the games and used them to play crappy old Nintendo games (I still can't figure out why you would waste the time).  

 

I will buy a Vita at some point, I'm pretty sure.  But my point is that Sony has set the table for the response the Vita has received.  The user base has raised these concerns and we have received very few answers.  It's not that we're all a bunch of haters, but if you love your PSP, there are very few reasons to invest in a PS Vita until some of those concerns are answered.  If the case were otherwise, the sales figures would be different.  The 3DS is still killing the Vita, it's not even close.  One of the reasons is backwards compatibility.  3DS owners can still play their DS Lite, DSi, and DSi XL games on it.  Vita owners can't say the same thing.  The PSP Go is the perfect poster child for what is happening with the Vita.  I don't want Vita to fail, but I've run businesses long enough to recognize a losing strategy when I see one.  Sony needs a massive course correction on the Vita, and fast.

 

As far as pricing, I understand (probably better than most) what the strategies are and why they are.  $250 doesn't seem unreasonable for the Vita, by 2008 standards, but there are new competitors in the field that are drawing that market away at a $200 price point.  The Vita isn't competing with PS2/3, XBox and Wii ... it's competing with Kindle Fire HD, Google Nexus, and iPod.  That's the new reality.  If Sony can't get to market at no higher than a $200 price point, even if it's just a promotional price for a time, and properly support it with a functionaly marketing strategy ... they are going to lose on price also.


My understanding is that the PSP is still doing very well in Japan and Europe (where they released a new wifi free model), but not so much in the US. The lastest sales figures I have seen show the US to be the top selling market for the Vita.

 

Putting the exact same game on both the PS3 and the Vita, just isn't a focus for Sony even though they need to do that to easily help expand the Vita's library. Although it doesn't benefit you, the Cross-buy program helps attract PS3 owners into investing in a Vita, so they can easily get the portable version free when they buy the console version. We will probably see more cross-buy games coming out this year.

 

Yes you can get PSP games and movies for cheap because stores like GameStop are liquidating them. Many GameStop stores don't carry them at all. The UMD movie format was particulary bad, because the movie studios insisted on selling them for the same price as the DVD, and without all the special features. I purchased a few UMD movies, but then I realized it makes far more sense to use one of the free programs out there and rip a DVD into a Vita friendly format that I could just watch off of a memory stick.

 

IMO had the PSP used game carts like the Vita and DS, the Vita would be BC with the PSP. While the UMD made since at the time of the PSP, we certainly want to refain from using energy wasting mechanical parts in our portable devices. There really wasn't a choice in this matter. Now that Sony has gone with a competent game cart format, if there ever is a follow up to the Vita, I would think it will be BC with Vita carts and digital downloads....

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Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

jimniner wrote:

4 - Price.  No, I don't think $250 is too high for a bundle deal.  However, when you can get a brand new X-Box for $200, shelling out even $225 for a handheld just doesn't make a lot of sense.  Two things confuse me about this pricing strategy:

     (1) If Sony assumes that PS3 owners are a target for this product, why would they pay the same for the handheld as they did for the PS3?

     (2) For those of us that don't own a console system, why would we shell out more for a handheld than for a console?

 

 



I can't get behind this at all.  You are comparing a 7 year old console game system (X-Box) with a handheld system that hasn't even reached it's first birthday (in the US at least, can't remember Japan's birthdate) and expecting them to be equally priced? 

 

Also, for the "Games" section, what Vita game requires a PS3 to play?  If you are talking about Remote Play, where you use the Vita to play a PS3 game, that has nothing to do with a Vita Game.  That's an extra for those who own both systems, but it is NOT a Vita Game requiring a PS3 to play... 

 

And if you are going to turn your back on a system because it gives an extra perk for those who own the console counterpart, that's just childish in my opinion...  That's kind of like saying "Forget that tablet because it has a Nook App.  If I wanted a Nook, I'd have bought a Nook, so becuase that tablet gives the option of getting a Nook App I'm not buying it".

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

The PSP will never be dead because there are games that you will never be able to play on the Vita.

 

I am sure that the UMD drive was taken out to keep the device smaller, it would be nice if that accessories port would allow you to attach a UMD drive, it would be nice if the Accessories port could allow you to connect a Vita to the TV, but why can't the Multi Use port accomplish this?   TV's have USB slots, it's very possible.

 

Unless you own a 20 or 60GB PS3, it's impossible to get rid of a PS2.    This is the approach PSP is taking with the PSVita.   Sony wants you to hold onto both devices.

 

Then you get people like me that want to play every game on one system, without having to swap cards(Other than game cards)   on the PSP it worked great, not so on the Vita, as you have LiveArea limits.

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Monster Hunter
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Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

You're mistaking firmware updates (Apple firmware iOS updates) for hardware refreshes.  The Vita is all new hardware.

 

Apple doesn't update firmware forever, either.  I believe only iPhone 4S models can get iOS 6 if I'm not mistaken.  iPads may be able to update but older iPads don't get some of the iOS6 features that the newest ones can have.

 
 
I'm not mistaking anything.  My point isn't about updating the firmware on the PSP to support PS Vita games, it's about having a solution to take purchased content with you as you upgrade to the newer system.  Apps purchased for the original iPhone will still work on the iPhone 5.  That is my point.  One reason why the 3DS is still killing the Vita is because 3DS owners can still play their DS Lite, DSi, and DSi XL games on the 3DS.  
No, I didn't expect a UMD drive on the Vita ... we all knew that the UMD drive was going to be a thing of the past.  What I would like to see is download vouchers for up to X number of games (say 5, just to pull out a number) per household or PSN ID when you send in your UMDs.  That way, the UMDs aren't getting resold and re-used, and PSP owners are getting some carryover for their absolute favorite PSP games.  I think that's a more fair and considerate solution to draw PSP owners over the fence.  Right now, PSP owners are the issue.  We're not buying the Vita.  I think this is a strategy that may help.  After all, preventing piracy only works if the devices actually sell.  Right now, Sony has gone to such great lengths to prevent piracy, that there's no reason to worry about it because the market reception for the Vita has been so low.  I'm not a custom firmware guy.  I don't hack my devices.  I just want to get a good value for my investment and want to be treated like a good customer, not a pirate.
The Apple/Nintendo example is fair and accurate, because it shows how manufacturers who keep their customers act.  Apple is the best in the world at getting existing customers to replace perfectly good devices in the name of getting the latest version.  I understand the perspective that the Vita is all new hardware ... I do.  But there's more to it than that, because it's not a new market.  You may create a completely new smart phone that is the most revolutionary thing on the planet, but if you don't give users the ability to get what they perceive as value out of it (like by making it Android or iOS compatible) it won't sell.  Along that parallel, look at the Nokia Lumina 920 (Windows 8 Phone) - it is arguably a great piece of tech (even CNET says so), but its sales are crap because nobody wants a Windows 8 phone ... they want iOS/Android.  
The market hasn't received the Vita well, not because the hardware is bad or the system is bad, but because the existing users feel like they were not a part of the equation.  That may or may not be true ... but it doesn't matter, because that's the perception.  How do we know that the PS Vita 2 will support what we are about to invest in on the PS Vita?  We don't.  Will we be handed another new proprietary media format?  Will they pull another PSP Go with the Vita system in 2 years?  It's not like it hasn't happened before.  If the existing user base feels left out in the cold, they will not spend their hard earned money on an expensive new toy that, to them, doesn't fully replace their old toy.  I'm sure PS Vita does things I want that my PSP doesn't, but it also doesn't do things that my PSP does ... for me that's a sticking point.  Could I live without a TV Out?  Sure, because now I have a tablet that can connect via micro HDMI, but is that the selling strategy Sony wants to pursue?  The UMD games are the biggest sticking point for me and other PSP owners that I know.  That one issue holds more dynamite than any other, and Sony has doubled down on not answering it.
Sony isn't doing the soft sell it needs to that gets users to buy into Sony as the manufacturer.  Apple has tremendous brand loyalty for a reason.  Sony has a long history of ticking off its customers.  There is a long list of examples that dimishes the trust Sony would like us to have in them.  
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Monster Hunter
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Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

That analogy is as misguided as the Blu Ray <-> DVD one. Apple devices all run on the same iOS, it's like a mini computer really. Furthermore, you are talking about 100% digital content whereas in the PSV <-> PSP scenario you are talking about physical formats. Sure, it's easy to say "Apple does it, Sony should too" but you are skipping on the very important part where there is physical media involved in the middle~.

 

Furthermore, if we would be looking at this from a strictly digital point of view, the media you've bought in your PSN during the PSP days works for the most part in the PSV. You don't have to repurchase your stuff again, you just have to pray the emulation is up to date~.

 

 

I think you're wrong, but how about the Sony vs. Sony analogy.  When Sony released the Blu-Ray player to market, it still played DVDs.  It was backwards compatible with the legacy tech.  As players advance, and work with downloaded media, they still play DVD and Blu-Ray discs.  If you have already bought those versions of the product, you don't have to re-buy them.  I'm not saying Sony should have a UMD drive on the Vita, just that if it wants to keep its PSP customers, they need to honor the existing relationship a little.  I'm not even asking them to replace all of my UMD games, maybe just 5 or 6.  Just something to show that the exising users, who have already spent money on the property, are of some value.  The UMD games do not work on Vita, and right now there is no plan to make them do so.  And there are not download versions of all UMD games on PSN.  Updated emulation won't change that.

Right now, UMDs are cheaper used at GameStop than the download versions of the same games on PSN.  Right now, there is more incentive in the market to buy the PSP 3000 (from a cost perspective) in terms of both unit price, game price, and game availability than there is to buy the PS Vita.  

I'm not condemning the Vita, I'm trying to help Sony understand that if it wants to sell the Vita (and I should be the easiest person to sell it to), they need to make some changes to their sales strategy.  I want to want the Vita.  It looks awesome.  Right now, Sony has put up too many obstacles for me, and those like me.  They need to take at least one or two fo them down to get me over the fence.

That's all I'm saying.  Call me names if you need to (not you, but it seems others question my intellect here), but I'm not disagreeing with you that the Vita is a great mobile gaming system.  What I am pointing out is that it is not positioned well in the market, and that is only the case because of Sony, not because of the system itself.  It should be flying off the shelves.  I would have expected their first year sales to top 50 million units in the US alone if they had really made something that existing PSP owners couldn't live without.  But they didn't, and it didn't, and it can ... but they need to open their eyes and ears and pay attention to what we're telling them.

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Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

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Jan 4, 2013

I did a few quick google searches, and as far as I can find, God Of War: Ascension is a PS3 game, and a PS3 game only.  I've found articles where the developers of GoW:A have said that there is no Vita GoA game planned, and no expectations of any Cross Play or anything with the Vita, so I'm not sure why GoW:A was even mentioned in a thread about the Vita...

 

Please let me know if I am wrong with that and point me to an article that says otherwise.

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