Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Do you mean 
Reply
Monster Hunter
Registered: 11/27/2012
Offline
37 posts
 

Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

@DistantWords:

I can't get behind this at all.  You are comparing a 7 year old console game system (X-Box) with a handheld system that hasn't even reached it's first birthday (in the US at least, can't remember Japan's birthdate) and expecting them to be equally priced? 

 

Also, for the "Games" section, what Vita game requires a PS3 to play?  If you are talking about Remote Play, where you use the Vita to play a PS3 game, that has nothing to do with a Vita Game.  That's an extra for those who own both systems, but it is NOT a Vita Game requiring a PS3 to play... 

 

And if you are going to turn your back on a system because it gives an extra perk for those who own the console counterpart, that's just childish in my opinion...  That's kind of like saying "Forget that tablet because it has a Nook App.  If I wanted a Nook, I'd have bought a Nook, so becuase that tablet gives the option of getting a Nook App I'm not buying it".

LBP2: LBP - Flooded - Worm Hole Demo (Cross Controller)

 

LBP Vita: SackBots: Controlinator Demo

 

 


But what so many on these boards don't seem to understand is that the PS Vita isn't competing with console systems ... it's competing with Kindle Fire HD, Google Nexus, iPod, etc.  I used the console price as an example of the mismatch that a new consumer will see up front.  The Vita is a new product in a market that has changed since the PSP was introduced (even since the PSP Go).  Tablets, smart phones, and Nintendo DS are the competition, not PS3 and XBox.  A new 3DS costs less than $170.  The Kindle Fire HD and Google Nexus retail for $199.  The Vita sells at $249.  Now, the bundle deals at $249 are a better offering and I'm glad to see them ... that was a smart move.  It basically brings the unit price for the Vita down to about $200 when you factor in the costs of the other aspects of the bundles.

 

I guess I mispoke about the PS3 as far as being "required."  What I was meaning to address was more the issue of the lack of releases that are solely for the Vita.  A lot of highly anticipated PS3 titles are slated for release this year that will have crossplay functinality with the Vita, but for which there is no planned Vita-specific launch.  For those of us without a PS3, that basically means we won't be able to buy those games.  And it's a lot to ask someone to go shell out another $200+ for a console system they didn't really want just to be able to play games like God of War: Ascension on their PS Vita.  That's what I was really pointing to.

 

Call me childish if you feel the need (I didn't call you names), but I didn't say I was "turning my back" on the Vita because "it gives an extra perk for those who own the console counterpart."  I said it's not a selling point for those of us who don't own, or plan to purchase, the console.  That's all.  It's not a selling point.  That's my point.  It's not a turn-off, but it's not going to pull me in either.  

 

You can defend the Vita all you want ... I'm not attacking it.  It looks like a great device.  My issues aren't with the Vita, an inanimate object though it is, they are with Sony.  I don't trust Sony now.  Look back at the lifeline of the PSP product line and show me where the consistency is.  Apart from the 1000/2000/3000 series, there is none.  The Go brought a new memory format, so did the Vita.  If piracy was the issue, why not keep using the format for the Go that was already on the market?  People who bought the Go kind of got hosed there even more than those with the PSP, because they had just invested the Sony's "new" media format.  Every time Sony "updates" the PSP line, it creates a new media format.  If it were a better format, that would be one thing, but it's no faster or better than MicroSD, so where's the value to the consumer?  

 

My points are aimed at Sony to adequately communicate and sell the Vita to the existing PSP base.  That's where they failed in 2012, that's where they will fail in 2013 if they continue on the same strategy.  The Vita is expensive.  People aren't going to drop the PSP they love to shell out that much cash for a Vita without some comforting from Sony.  As yet, they have only told us what they won't do, not what they will.  The Vita is awesome, there's no arguing that.  Sony is a mess, history is on my side here.  Until Sony can convince existing PSP owners that the Vita is what they NEED, they won't buy it.  The PSP 3000 costs less that $100, and there is a substantial used market for units, games and accessories.  Sony doesn't need to drop the price on the Vita to $100, but they need the emotional draw that makes us want it more than we want a good deal.

Please use plain text.
Message 21 of 54 (175 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Monster Hunter
Registered: 11/27/2012
Offline
37 posts
 

Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

@DistantWords:

I'm sorry to mention GOW:A, sue me.  I was under the impression that the crossplay functionality was on the table for development in the quarter following the PS3 release.  I could be wrong.  If I am, so sorry.

 

Still doesn't change the market position of  the Vita exept to highlight the fact that one of Sony's biggest franchises won't be getting released on Vita within 18 months of the system's launch.  God of War is an easy seller.  There are two PSP units decked out for GOW releases, but nothing planned for Vita.  It's just a reminder that development for Vita doesn't seem to be a real high priority.  

 

I wish it was, and I want to believe that lots of great games are coming, but I don't see it right now.  That's all.  I wish it looked better, but it just doesn't.

Please use plain text.
Message 22 of 54 (172 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
I Only Post Everything
Registered: 02/14/2001
Offline
1006 posts
 

Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

When you bought your movies and games on UMD, you didn't buy a license to that content in any other form.

 

The best possible trade-in system you could hope for would be sending in a UMD and getting a low flat credit added to your PSN account directly.  I'd guess $2 per disc.  (Not every game is worth the same to everyone you know.)  And they'd put a maximum on it to keep the very tiny number of people with a huge collection of UMDs from overburdening them.  I think at any one time I owned at most 20 UMDs, so let's be extra generous and say 20 UMDs maximum.

 

Instead I think it's much more worth Sony's money to bundle in extras on the Vita to sweeten the deal.  $40 worth of download vouchers for a game, or three months of PS Plus, or something similar.  Sony doesn't have to set up a clearing house of games to do that and all the costs of receiving, processing, crediting, and desctruction of the games to avoid them being resold elsewhere.

 

In fact, you are probably much better off liquidating your entire UMD inventory to a collector who values it like you do and taking that money and pouring into rebuying the content on Vita.

PSNProfiles.com - InfinityDevil
Please use plain text.
Message 23 of 54 (169 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
PIayStation MVP
Registered: 07/14/2000
Offline
12905 posts
 

Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

[ Edited ]
Jan 4, 2013

jimniner wrote:

@DistantWords:

I can't get behind this at all.  You are comparing a 7 year old console game system (X-Box) with a handheld system that hasn't even reached it's first birthday (in the US at least, can't remember Japan's birthdate) and expecting them to be equally priced? 

 

Also, for the "Games" section, what Vita game requires a PS3 to play?  If you are talking about Remote Play, where you use the Vita to play a PS3 game, that has nothing to do with a Vita Game.  That's an extra for those who own both systems, but it is NOT a Vita Game requiring a PS3 to play... 

 

And if you are going to turn your back on a system because it gives an extra perk for those who own the console counterpart, that's just childish in my opinion...  That's kind of like saying "Forget that tablet because it has a Nook App.  If I wanted a Nook, I'd have bought a Nook, so becuase that tablet gives the option of getting a Nook App I'm not buying it".

LBP2: LBP - Flooded - Worm Hole Demo (Cross Controller)

 

LBP Vita: SackBots: Controlinator Demo

 

 


But what so many on these boards don't seem to understand is that the PS Vita isn't competing with console systems ... it's competing with Kindle Fire HD, Google Nexus, iPod, etc.  I used the console price as an example of the mismatch that a new consumer will see up front.  The Vita is a new product in a market that has changed since the PSP was introduced (even since the PSP Go).  Tablets, smart phones, and Nintendo DS are the competition, not PS3 and XBox.  A new 3DS costs less than $170.  The Kindle Fire HD and Google Nexus retail for $199.  The Vita sells at $249.  Now, the bundle deals at $249 are a better offering and I'm glad to see them ... that was a smart move.  It basically brings the unit price for the Vita down to about $200 when you factor in the costs of the other aspects of the bundles.

 

I guess I mispoke about the PS3 as far as being "required."  What I was meaning to address was more the issue of the lack of releases that are solely for the Vita.  A lot of highly anticipated PS3 titles are slated for release this year that will have crossplay functinality with the Vita, but for which there is no planned Vita-specific launch.  For those of us without a PS3, that basically means we won't be able to buy those games.  And it's a lot to ask someone to go shell out another $200+ for a console system they didn't really want just to be able to play games like God of War: Ascension on their PS Vita.  That's what I was really pointing to.

 

Call me childish if you feel the need (I didn't call you names), but I didn't say I was "turning my back" on the Vita because "it gives an extra perk for those who own the console counterpart."  I said it's not a selling point for those of us who don't own, or plan to purchase, the console.  That's all.  It's not a selling point.  That's my point.  It's not a turn-off, but it's not going to pull me in either.  

 

You can defend the Vita all you want ... I'm not attacking it.  It looks like a great device.  My issues aren't with the Vita, an inanimate object though it is, they are with Sony.  I don't trust Sony now.  Look back at the lifeline of the PSP product line and show me where the consistency is.  Apart from the 1000/2000/3000 series, there is none.  The Go brought a new memory format, so did the Vita.  If piracy was the issue, why not keep using the format for the Go that was already on the market?  People who bought the Go kind of got hosed there even more than those with the PSP, because they had just invested the Sony's "new" media format.  Every time Sony "updates" the PSP line, it creates a new media format.  If it were a better format, that would be one thing, but it's no faster or better than MicroSD, so where's the value to the consumer?  

 

My points are aimed at Sony to adequately communicate and sell the Vita to the existing PSP base.  That's where they failed in 2012, that's where they will fail in 2013 if they continue on the same strategy.  The Vita is expensive.  People aren't going to drop the PSP they love to shell out that much cash for a Vita without some comforting from Sony.  As yet, they have only told us what they won't do, not what they will.  The Vita is awesome, there's no arguing that.  Sony is a mess, history is on my side here.  Until Sony can convince existing PSP owners that the Vita is what they NEED, they won't buy it.  The PSP 3000 costs less that $100, and there is a substantial used market for units, games and accessories.  Sony doesn't need to drop the price on the Vita to $100, but they need the emotional draw that makes us want it more than we want a good deal.


IMO you are overestimating the viable "active" PSP user market in this country. I think most of those people have moved on to something else years ago. Stores like GameStop, Target, and Best Buy are getting rid of their PSP stock. There just isn't a viable market for the PSP anymore.

 

I think Sony is pretty much starting from scratch when it comes to the Vita. One reason I think Sony opted not to put the PSP branding on the Vita, was to help eliminate the assumption that it would be compatible with the PSP, just like Nintendo kept the DS branding on their portable systems so they can maintain the assumption that all DS systems are BC.

 

FYI the PSPgo used a established memory card format (Memory Stick M2). Because of the smaller form factor, they probably had to go with a smaller memory card. At least the M2 has third parties making cheaper versions of that card. I would have preferred that Sony stuck with this format for the Vita, but like others have said Sony has to maintain strict piracy safegards so that memory card readers won't be readilly available to potentially hack the Vita. I understand it will happen anyway, but it certainly curbs this activity with a totally new format.

 

Going forward, I think Sony's best move for the Vita is to show how well it integrates with the PS3 (and PS4), since most Vita owners already own a PS3. These consumers won't want to pay for the same games again they have for the PS3, for a Vita version, so that is why it is good they have the croos-buy version. I don't think in the short term that Sony will be catering so much on consumers that don't own a PS3...

Please use plain text.
Message 24 of 54 (163 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
PlayStation MVP
Registered: 08/07/2009
Online
11812 posts
 

Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013
Also note that sending in UMD s to get digital copies wouldn't work anyway. If the game is $9.99 on PSN, how would they know if you just went to Gamestop and picked one up for $1?

Not to mention not every game is available on PSN, and won't ever be.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic
Please use plain text.
Message 25 of 54 (158 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Monster Hunter
Registered: 11/27/2012
Offline
37 posts
 

Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

@InfinityDevil:

"When you bought your movies and games on UMD, you didn't buy a license to that content in any other form."


That's the long-running argument about DRM.  It has been argued exhaustively for music.  When you download a song from iTunes, do you only have the right to listen to it on Apple devices, or on any media player?  The argument seems to have mostly been resolved to ownership of the music to be played however, and on whatever, the consumer chooses.  There are limits, but even Apple sells its music downloads sans DRM now and allows you to burn X number of times to disc.

 

"The best possible trade-in system you could hope for ..."

 

I like some of your ideas here.  The problem is, not all my games are used.  Some, like my GOW titles, I bought new.  However, I like the idea of download vouchers ... that's the kind of brainstorming I think has been missing at Sony.  

 

Like I've said, there is no debating the superiority of the PS Vita.  It's awesome.  What is lacking is the outreach to current PSP owners.  We haven't been presented with a compelling argument to upgrade other than "it's completely new."  That's great, but when we're heavily invested in the last generation, and the costs to upgrade are so steep, it's not enough for many of us to cross the line and buy into the Vita.  

 

It does represent a cost to Sony, but what's it worth?  What is the tradeoff?  Either you run a massive (and expensive) advertising blitz, which may or may not be effective to recruit existing PSP owners to the new system, or you spend that investment taking care of PSP owners who have made the switch.  There are more than 70 million PSP owners in the US.  That's 58 times the number of Vita owners.  During the Christmas buying rush, the PSP 3000 sold out nearly everywhere, but there are plenty of Vita units available.  I would argue that an online advertising (through the PS website) would cause tremendous ripples if it said that Sony was going to do something like your $40 voucher idea.  I think $40 is probably pretty fair, it would get you 3 or 4 PSP Classics downloads.  I think that's a more sustainable and viable option than trying to receive UMDs back and process out vouchers on a case by case basis.  

 

Good idea, I like the way you think.  I wish Sony thought like that.  If they did I'd be talking to you about how much I love my new PS Vita instead of why I haven't upgraded.

 

Please use plain text.
Message 26 of 54 (155 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
PIayStation MVP
Registered: 07/14/2000
Offline
12905 posts
 

Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

Jan 4, 2013

glaciusx25 wrote:
Also note that sending in UMD s to get digital copies wouldn't work anyway. If the game is $9.99 on PSN, how would they know if you just went to Gamestop and picked one up for $1?

Not to mention not every game is available on PSN, and won't ever be.


I don't think that is how Japan's Passport program worked. I believe you got a serial number from off the UMD itself, and then you input that number into a webpage which would allow you to buy a discounted version.

 

I think one of the reasons Sony didn't bring the Passport program over here was because our PSP digital downloads were far cheaper than in Japan...

Please use plain text.
Message 27 of 54 (154 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Monster Hunter
Registered: 11/27/2012
Offline
37 posts
 

Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

[ Edited ]
Jan 4, 2013

@Logical_Dolphin:

 

I think you are overestimating the demise of the PSP.  Again, I'm not attacking the Vita, just Sony's positioning strategy.

 

Since 2007, Sony has sold more than 70 million PSP units in the US alone.  That's a huge market.  If they sold every one of those individuals a PS Vita, we wouldn't be talking about it's struggling sales position.  

 

If the PSP is so "dead," why is there so much available for it through stores like GameStop?  Look it up, they have tons of games and accessories for it.  And they sell a ton of it.  GameStop is HQ'd here in Dallas and one of the other Assistant Scoutmasters in my son's Troop is the Director  of Logistics for them.  He says they are moving as much or more PSP related stock as they have in years.  He told me that the Vita is moving, but terribly slow.  He says they move 2 to 3 PSP 3000 systems for every Vita system (Core and Bundle).  He also said they're selling 10 - 12 PSP games for every Vita game (download and physical).  

 

I know, it's hard to hear because you think the Vita is great.  I don't disagree with you on that.  The Vita is awesome.  If I were a new consumer in the handheld market, it would probably be more appealing to me.  The problem is, everyone knows it is the new PSP, whether they put "PSP" on it or not.  The biggest market for the PSP replacement is existing PSP owners, just like every other device on the market.  The best market for a new Apple phone or tablet is someone who already owns one.  If Sony doesn't want it to be the new PSP, then they need to produce a new PSP and let it and the Vita each stand on their own two feet.

 

If compatibility with the PSP catalog is not a part of the value of the PS Vita, then why did they go to the trouble to advertise playability of PS One Classics on the Vita?  Why did they update many PSP games for download to the Vita?  It is the PSP2, whether they call it that or not.  One of the reasons the DS line keeps beating the PSP line is because it is all DS.  People don't want to "start over" every so many years with a completely new game system.  It's why PS2 owners buy a PS3.  It's why people keep using Windows.  Consumers want new widgets, but they also want some familiarity.  

 

The PS Vita can be huge, and will be, if Sony can course correct and get this right.  If they keep on this road, it will continue to struggle as it has and the PSP will continue to outsell it.  One challenge in bringing something new to the market is competing with your existing product.  Sony is just now stopping production of the PS2, 11 years after bringing it to market.  They will likely continue to make the PS3 for 4 or so more years after bringing in the PS4.  The challenge in that is competing against a legacy product (that you make) that is still great.  

 

Just because the PS Vita is awesome doesn't mean the PSP is a piece of junk.  It's still a great system.  Is it as great as the Vita?  Probably not.  Is that awesomeness gap enough to justify $150 difference in unit price plus all the associated costs of a new system (memory, cases, etc.)?  Right now, it doesn't look like it based on the sales data.

 

This isn't about emotion for me, it's about facts.  No matter how good the Vita is, if Sony doesn't position it well in the market it will fail, just like the BetaMax did (far superior to VHS - 1980s - but Sony hosed that one up too).  This isn't just about quality, it's about positioning.  Right now Sony is trying to compete on quality alone, and that's not enough, as we have seen.  All I'm suggesting is that Sony find a way to deal with concerns like the ones I've raised so I, and other PSP owners, discover the motivation to buy into PS Vita.  I want it to succeed, but I'm not just going to go spend money because I can.  There has to be more incentive to buy than there is right now.  Just telling me I'm childish or stupid doesn't sell me on the Vita.  I'm already sold on the quality of the device.  What I need to be sold on the is the need to part with the cash to get one to replace my existing PSP.  That hasn't been done yet.

Please use plain text.
Message 28 of 54 (152 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
I Only Post Everything
Registered: 02/14/2001
Offline
1006 posts
 

Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

[ Edited ]
Jan 4, 2013

It's very easy to see why they added PS1 and PSP emulation to the Vita.  Developers did the work of porting games to digital formats, Sony wants to continue selling those games on the new platform.  Developers make money, Sony makes the royalty, consumers get some of the classic games they want on the go.

 

Oh I should also mention that those who purchased the digital PSP and PS1 games for their PSP or PS3 can download them and play them on their Vita at no extra charge.  That's what I did with my purchase of GTA Chinatown Wars for PSP.

 

Buying a movie on UMD and not getting the PSN Store digital version for free several years later isn't DRM.  It's the death of a media format.

 

You keep mentioning that people are calling you childish or stupid for having your point of view. I haven't seen that happen yet in this thread.

PSNProfiles.com - InfinityDevil
Please use plain text.
Message 29 of 54 (144 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Monster Hunter
Registered: 11/27/2012
Offline
37 posts
 

Re: When will Sony reach out to PSP owners?

[ Edited ]
Jan 4, 2013

InfinityDevil wrote:

It's very easy to see why they added PS1 and PSP emulation to the Vita.  Developers did the work of porting games to digital formats, Sony wants to continue selling those games on the new platform.  Developers make money, Sony makes the royalty, consumers get some of the classic games they want on the go.

 

Oh I should also mention that those who purchased the digital PSP and PS1 games for their PSP or PS3 can download them and play them on their Vita at no extra charge.  That's what I did with my purchase of GTA Chinatown Wars for PSP.

 

Buying a movie on UMD and not getting the PSN Store digital version for free several years later isn't DRM.  It's the death of a media format.

 

You keep mentioning that people are calling you childish or stupid for having your point of view. I haven't seen that happen yet in this thread.


I have generally abandoned the idea of ripping UMD movies to take to mp4 format, because I'm not going to install CFW on my PSP to do it.  I bought them all used and that's the price you pay, so I can let that one go.

 

As far as the name calling, it's not you or the Dolphin guy, but if you scroll back through the comments that have been made I can show you places where I've been called a "moron" or "childish."  

 

I enjoy a healthy debate, and you and Dolphin have been great conversation, but I don't disrespect people's opinions on these boards and don't appreciate name calling.  That's the last refuge for those without a point.

 

I think some really good ideas have come about through this discussion.  I'm particularly intrigued by the $40 download voucher idea Dolphin came up with for existing PSP owners (or all buyers of the PS Vita).  That's the kind of thinking I think is missing at Sony right now.  Yes, the game offerings are thin.  Yes, the media is expensive.  This has been the case with every new product to hit the market in this industry.  The difference is, while the Vita is completely new, it's user base isn't.  It is facing many of the same challenges the 3DS did, but with additional challenges created by Sony in it's rollout strategy like a new and more expensive media format, a lack of support for all games (even the downloaded ones) from the prior generation, and a lack of that "gotta have it" title that gets people in the door (Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed were in the right direction, and did generate some sales, but not enough to overcome the other sticking points for many of us).  There are a lot of us out there that still get a lot of enjoyment out of our PSP.  We should be chomping at the bit to get our hands on the Vita, but we're not.  I think we need to properly examine why that is the case.  

 

While there seems to be a reluctance to admit that the PS Vita is essentially the PSP2, it basically is.  And the first and most passionate group to buy it ought to be PSP owners, but it isn't.  I am just branstorming on why and what can be done about it.  As one of those PSP owners that falls into this group of interested, but unconvinced potential PS Vita consumers, I think my perception has some merit in the discussion.  For those that have already made the purchase, you have already overcome your philosophical acquisition hurdles. I, and many more like me, have not.  The PS Vita should be killing everything else in this segment, but it's not.  Why?  

 

If it were simply a matter of it's superiority in the eyes of new entrants to the market, it would be the top seller.  So that's not it.

 

If it were simply a price issue, the addition of more competitively priced bundles would have resolved it.  So that's not it.

 

The one piece that Sony isn't considering is the one that ought to open the flood gates, and that's PSP owners like me.  We could be the tipping point for the market reception of the Vita in 2013.  I think our perceptions are uniquely pertinent in this debate.

Please use plain text.
Message 30 of 54 (135 Views)
Reply
0 Likes