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Gaming Beast
Registered: 02/22/2012
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Re: ps4 backwards compatibility

Apr 24, 2013

It took me getting older to realize that in year from now we want even remember these conversations. In 5 short years none of this may be here and something else may take it's place. So it is really not worth fussing or worring about. Just having thoughts with others and carrying on.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: ps4 backwards compatibility

[ Edited ]
Apr 24, 2013

Deadly_Rabbit123 wrote:

I agree, its away to make extra money out of old consoles.  If people want to play the old games they will have to buy the ps3.  I think thats why the ps2 lasted longer due to the fact that there was no backwards compatibility.  the xbox 1 and gamecube quickly died of because there was backwards compatibility. If they Do make a model with backwards compatibility, I may spend a little more just for that system..


The PS3 had backwards compatibility for two years before the price drop to $399 had them remove it.

The PS2 lasted for so long because it had an install base comparable to Cable TV, so third party publishers continued to develop games for it. Core gamers moved over to the PS3. But casuals had no need to purchase a new console since they were still getting a limited amount of games (mostly sports towards the end), and still had access to a library that was THOUSANDS of titles large.

 

Even the console itself was still being manufactured until within the last year.

Sony has also already stated that they expect support to drop for the PS3 much more quickly. In some random snippets here and there that I have read, 2 years is the estimated amount of time (Take that with a grain of salt though.)

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Survivor
Registered: 12/31/2006
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Re: ps4 backwards compatibility

Apr 24, 2013

 i don't think bc going to effect sells for ps4, the most hardcore fanbase will get it day one.  i know i am, im still running my 60g ps3 from 06, the only game i would come to thas on the ps3 is socom confrontation.... 

BURNING THE PATH WILL ONLY LEAD TO MORE STORMS
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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 10/05/2011
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Re: ps4 backwards compatibility

Apr 24, 2013

CASHviLLe_615 wrote:

 i don't think bc going to effect sells for ps4, the most hardcore fanbase will get it day one.  i know i am, im still running my 60g ps3 from 06, the only game i would come to thas on the ps3 is socom confrontation.... 


It kinda depends. It might hurt sales. We don't know, as this is the first launch in a while without B/C that targets the core gamer demographic.

Also, we may be jumping the gun here. Sony plans for the PS4 to play all PlayStation brand games as a "long term plan". Yet, we heard a conflicting story that Sony would be disappointed if all games weren't available at launch.

Also, we can't forget the patent that we all confused for blocking used games that Sony listed last year. For all we know, the purpose of that technology could be to read a PS3 game, compare it with your PSN ID trophy information to as a proof of ownership, and from there, will allow you to play the streamed version (using Gaikai) for free. Technically, no matter how it works, that's considered backwards compatibility too. 

If you ask me, from a business perspective, this is a brilliant move on Sony's part. If the above rings true, they can decide on whether or not PS4 will be fully backwards compatible based on what their competitors announce at (or before) E3.

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Umbrella Scientist
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Re: ps4 backwards compatibility

Apr 25, 2013

CyberOcelot wrote:

CASHviLLe_615 wrote:

 i don't think bc going to effect sells for ps4, the most hardcore fanbase will get it day one.  i know i am, im still running my 60g ps3 from 06, the only game i would come to thas on the ps3 is socom confrontation.... 


It kinda depends. It might hurt sales. We don't know, as this is the first launch in a while without B/C that targets the core gamer demographic.

Also, we may be jumping the gun here. Sony plans for the PS4 to play all PlayStation brand games as a "long term plan". Yet, we heard a conflicting story that Sony would be disappointed if all games weren't available at launch.

Also, we can't forget the patent that we all confused for blocking used games that Sony listed last year. For all we know, the purpose of that technology could be to read a PS3 game, compare it with your PSN ID trophy information to as a proof of ownership, and from there, will allow you to play the streamed version (using Gaikai) for free. Technically, no matter how it works, that's considered backwards compatibility too. 

If you ask me, from a business perspective, this is a brilliant move on Sony's part. If the above rings true, they can decide on whether or not PS4 will be fully backwards compatible based on what their competitors announce at (or before) E3.


I got my fingers crossed, but Sony is like a Lover with the power to provide so much pleasure or so much pain.

 

I think I love her more then she loves me!

 

Story of my life.

Na13-31 wrote:
Finally, the structure of my question is that you would have to disprove every possible outcome to be correct and I would just have to have one that would likely be beneficial. That's statistically in my favor by quite a bit.


some_text
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Fender Bender
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Re: ps4 backwards compatibility

Apr 25, 2013

I also want to wait and see. I would love for them to make it in a way where you insert a PS2 or PS3 disc inside the system where it can detect the ID of the disc, where the PS4 would tell Gaikai what game is inserted inside the system and unlock the game and allow the person to stream it as long as the system is turned on or something.  Also, not having to pay a subscription fee would be nice! Smiley Happy

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Last Guardian
Registered: 04/18/2007
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Re: ps4 backwards compatibility

Apr 25, 2013

xChrisGTRx wrote:
Here we go again... the mods just need to get all these threads and combine them into one official one so people can just go and look and type till their soul's content about how they want BC on PS4 and not be filling the forums up with the same topic every few days

Unfortunately even if the Mods merged every single thread that currently exists into one, it will not stop people from creating new threads  on the same topic. Many people prefer to make their own threads because either A) they don't know how to use the search B) they don't care to search, C) they thinkt hey are the only ones with the idea for the thread to start with.

 

There is not much that can be done. Yeah they could make one big merged thread and continuously merge all the news ones into the thread, but it won't stop the creation of the threads.

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Last Guardian
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Re: ps4 backwards compatibility

Apr 25, 2013

Icestar10 wrote:

Bulletpainpills wrote:

I'm sure Sony would have added Backwards Compatibility if it as easy. If Sony was against BC afterIt's they dropped PS2 BC in the PS3 then why does the Vita have PSP BC? If Sony truly hated the idea of BC then it makes no sense that the Vita would have PSP BC.  The fact that Vita does have PSP BC means creating an emulator for the PSP wasn't that hard at all, unlike with the PS4 where creating an universal emulator for PS3 games would be incredibly difficult due to the complexity of the Cell Processor.


It's not Sony who seems to be against the concept of backwards compatibility, rather it seems like the Sony fanboys are against it. 


It's not that the "Sony fanboys" are against BC, it that most of us understand economics. Most everyone that I've seen who tell other posters to "get over it", "keep your PS 3" and so forth are not against backwards compatability. Most of them would love to have a BC PS 4 that would play PS 3 games and maybe even PS 2 games as well. It's easy to dismiss us as fanatics, zealots, idiots or stupid. However a basic business economics class would teach people the dangers inherent in making products far too costly than the market can bear.

 

I can guarentee you that if Sony added BC to the PS 4 then the overall cost of the PS 4 would be far higher than the community at large would be willing to support. Imagine if Sony announced yet again that their console is $500 (let's use the very low end range of price possibilities). With all the rampage and nostril flaring from psychos when the price was revealed for the PS 3, I sure wouldn't want to be in Sony's shoes when the internet and consumers went on a 2nd rampage over price.

 

Yes, there are hundreds of thousands of gamers who would be more than willing to pay another $100 - $300 or so for a BC PS 4. But the bulk of the consumer base will balk yet again. The first two to three years of a console's life is generally sold at a loss. There is no profit to be made on the consoles until around the 2nd or 3rd year. So add into that the extra cost of adding BC compatability, and it's not a pretty picture. Even if Sony offered 2 models, one for those who want it and one for those that don't, it is not financially feasible to add BC to the system. They would lose far too much money to continue in the console business. Don't about you, but I don't want to be stuck choosing between only Microsoft and Nintendo. I really don't want to be reliant on MS for a console at all.

 

Adding BC to the PS Vita wasn't that difficult since it was done via software emulation. PS 2 emulation for the PS 3 was hardware. When they changed the formula from the original hardware emulation to a software/hardware mixture, there was a loss of compatibility. Fewer games were supported and more glitches appeared in older games.

 

Sony's aquisition of Gaikai Cloud, and the subsequent announcement of streaming PS 1, 2 and 3 games via the Cloud shows their determination to try to make some kind of BC available to the consumer. Hopefully we'll learn more at E 3.

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Fender Bender
Registered: 11/10/2006
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Re: ps4 backwards compatibility

Apr 25, 2013

PapaWarlock wrote:

Icestar10 wrote:

Bulletpainpills wrote:

I'm sure Sony would have added Backwards Compatibility if it as easy. If Sony was against BC afterIt's they dropped PS2 BC in the PS3 then why does the Vita have PSP BC? If Sony truly hated the idea of BC then it makes no sense that the Vita would have PSP BC.  The fact that Vita does have PSP BC means creating an emulator for the PSP wasn't that hard at all, unlike with the PS4 where creating an universal emulator for PS3 games would be incredibly difficult due to the complexity of the Cell Processor.


It's not Sony who seems to be against the concept of backwards compatibility, rather it seems like the Sony fanboys are against it. 


It's not that the "Sony fanboys" are against BC, it that most of us understand economics. Most everyone that I've seen who tell other posters to "get over it", "keep your PS 3" and so forth are not against backwards compatability. Most of them would love to have a BC PS 4 that would play PS 3 games and maybe even PS 2 games as well. It's easy to dismiss us as fanatics, zealots, idiots or stupid. However a basic business economics class would teach people the dangers inherent in making products far too costly than the market can bear.

 

I can guarentee you that if Sony added BC to the PS 4 then the overall cost of the PS 4 would be far higher than the community at large would be willing to support. Imagine if Sony announced yet again that their console is $500 (let's use the very low end range of price possibilities). With all the rampage and nostril flaring from psychos when the price was revealed for the PS 3, I sure wouldn't want to be in Sony's shoes when the internet and consumers went on a 2nd rampage over price.

 

Yes, there are hundreds of thousands of gamers who would be more than willing to pay another $100 - $300 or so for a BC PS 4. But the bulk of the consumer base will balk yet again. The first two to three years of a console's life is generally sold at a loss. There is no profit to be made on the consoles until around the 2nd or 3rd year. So add into that the extra cost of adding BC compatability, and it's not a pretty picture. Even if Sony offered 2 models, one for those who want it and one for those that don't, it is not financially feasible to add BC to the system. They would lose far too much money to continue in the console business. Don't about you, but I don't want to be stuck choosing between only Microsoft and Nintendo. I really don't want to be reliant on MS for a console at all.

 

Adding BC to the PS Vita wasn't that difficult since it was done via software emulation. PS 2 emulation for the PS 3 was hardware. When they changed the formula from the original hardware emulation to a software/hardware mixture, there was a loss of compatibility. Fewer games were supported and more glitches appeared in older games.

 

Sony's aquisition of Gaikai Cloud, and the subsequent announcement of streaming PS 1, 2 and 3 games via the Cloud shows their determination to try to make some kind of BC available to the consumer. Hopefully we'll learn more at E 3.


Don't worry, I am not dissmissing anyone as being stupid or anything like that! Smiley Happy I am not mad at Sony for not including backwards compatibility because I can understand. I am happy though that they are making some effort by buying Giakai. Smiley Happy

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Last Guardian
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Re: ps4 backwards compatibility

Apr 25, 2013

fantasyplayer wrote:

If sony looses 20% more in the next years, on top of the 30% drop in gaming for the last 4 or 5 years gaming will not servive the fallout. Sony will have lost the battle. People are pulling away from gaming in the last little while. They need a wow affect to pull people away from other eletronics that is moving faster than gaming is. Taking away something that might make more sell is not a good way to make it better. Like I say, they should have thought of this the first day they started development of ps4. It is a little late now though.


It's not the fact they might sell a few more units, it is the fact that adding it will cost far more than they can possibly recoup. Every console is sold at a loss to begin with. No matter how many people buy it they will still lose money. Adding BC will deepen the price loss, again no matter how many units are sold, it's still a loss for them.

 

Sony makes the bulk of it's money in the first few years of a console's life through software sales. License fees they get when a company sells a game on Sony's system.  Even with what they make in licensing fees and software sales is not enough to recoup that loss. Why add more to your loss margins than you can possibly recoup? The idea is to break even or make a little profit. It is not fiscally responsible.

 

 

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