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Treasure Hunter
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Re: When is enough - ENOUGH Sony?

Jul 22, 2011

It is up to the parents to best safeguard their children, and for the adults that use Home to be vigilant and responsible.

If a parent is going to let their PS3 be a babysitter for hours a day the onus is on them as well as the offenders.

If a parent knows their kid will try all 10000 combos on a 4 digit parental control lock, then they should only let them play on PS3 and use Home under close supervision.

What people seem to forget is the content and spaces could be any rating but it's the rate of interaction between users that is the problem. It cannot be rated, and it can't always be controlled. Changing the rating of content changes nothing. Upping the ESRB rating for Home would help, but not by a lot (look at Europe, almost everyone is 12-15 and are simply there because they can be through fraud).So going back to what I just said unless parents are going to watch their kids, and adults on Home are vigilant, this is always going to be a problem.

Jersquall: Any new news on Home on PS4 yet?

Tempest_Fire: Due to a shifting landscape, PlayStation Home will cease publishing new content on November 12, 2014.

@conrad_max

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Splicer
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Re: When is enough - ENOUGH Sony?

Jul 22, 2011

I agree with you and understand. Looking at it from both sides of the spectrum is a good starting point to creating a solution instead of just a resolution. However, I find it frustrating when only the parent is blamed for their child or teenager's wrong doing. I was raised to be a respectful and considerate individual. I carry myself as an adult and a man whether it's online or in real life -- my mother did a fine job raising me. However, she also had to trust that when she wasn't around, I was still being good. Was I always good? What teenager is?

See, a lot of the adults who discuss what's going on are looking at it from their generation's vantage point. A 38 year old is going to see things very differently from how a 25 year old will. But me being 21, I remember being a teenager better than a 38 year old would. And what I know is that teens are just as guilty as adults in some situations. If you're sixteen then you should know not to talk to people who are in their 40s. Even if it's just a casual, friendly thing.

A parent can't be on their teenager's back all the time or it could lead to rebellion and the situation could get worse. Of course, that's a personal matter between the parent and the child/teen but it's a situation that you have to take into account, nonetheless.

Because you can't trust adults to always be adults, and I don't trust teenagers to simply fall in line, we come to a cross where we have to rely on those making the rules to come up with a well structured plan and action that'll separate minors from adults. I don't know why this is even a discussion... it should just be an obvious and standard thing: child, teen, parent, adult... everyone in the situation plays a part and carries a form of responsibility. Right from wrong.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: When is enough - ENOUGH Sony?

Jul 22, 2011

It's not a Sony problem, it's a people problem. This happens unfortunately in any corner of the internet frequented by minors that has social tools. To avoid it there must be firmer parenting, better awareness and adults should keep an eye out for other adults who might be risky. It's not an issue Sony or any company can just "stamp out". I'm sure many of us wish it were that easy, though.

Jersquall: Any new news on Home on PS4 yet?

Tempest_Fire: Due to a shifting landscape, PlayStation Home will cease publishing new content on November 12, 2014.

@conrad_max

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Splicer
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Re: When is enough - ENOUGH Sony?

Jul 22, 2011

You're correct, it is a people problem. But with the right incident and a good lawyer, Sony may find themselves in another class-action lawsuit. It IS that easy. Knowing of these different corners of the internet where such happens on a regular basis should give the idea that it can happen here as well -- the difference is that Sony is worth a lot more than most of those other corners. You spend money to make money but you have to spend money to protect money.

I'm not point a finger at Sony and saying it's their fault. I'm not even saying it's their problem -- obviously, I'm being misunderstood in that aspect. My point is that being as it's a "people problem" and one we can't solve on our own, those who CAN should. Not every PSHome player looks at these forums. Not all of them know of these discussions we're having or simply don't care to know. Because of that, they're on less alert on what happened, what's happening and what could happen.

See how we're having this bit of a disagreement because you believe adults should be vigilant and I see otherwise? That lack of unity is proof for me that just as people aren't going to do much and can't be relied on. You can't rely on me to be vigilant and I can't rely on you to be vigilant either; no matter how much you may promise, swear, cross your heart... that wouldn't be guarantee enough for anyone. We are just the users of the game, speaking on terms of people who don't really care to sit and discuss and complain and congregate in intellectual pursuits to better the game the play. That is the community of society and when you put it in a virtual world where your rules are regulated 40% of the time and the consequence isn't too severe all the time, you cast away the players' care.

I'm not saying "Sony, I want you to do this, this and this". I'm simply another voice with an opinion. If your fifteen year old daughter comes up to me being stupid, or anyone for that matter, I put them on ignore and go about my business. But if my name became blacklisted because some angry teenager decides they're going to go spread a lie about me that could put me in jail... it would become Sony's problem. Conclusively, i think Home should have an age regulation or restriction or something. They're the masterminds, they figure it out.

I'm done. :l

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: When is enough - ENOUGH Sony?

Jul 23, 2011

I don't understand your point ma'am. Sony can't read the future. Home is an online game with real life people playing it. Sony has no idea what someone will say when they talk in Home. Yes, they can police and ban, but the words have already been said. It's like this with any online game. You have access the risk you want to for your daughter and whether or not to let her play Home.

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Splicer
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Re: When is enough - ENOUGH Sony?

Aug 11, 2011

HearItWow wrote:

SuperShops wrote:

I am a software engineer.  This "it's impossible to police such a large community" is not entirely true, in fact, mostly false.  Server side software (as there are only so much RAM and resources on a PS3) can do most of the policing automatically.  It can detect patterns of abuse and apply appropriate warnings immediately, thus allieviating the human policing burdens for the moderators.  Such software could have a tiered system of punishment that starts with warnings and then proceeds with punishments if the warnings are ignored.  Also, such things as banning the hardware for a period of time instead of just the accounts (if even just hours to start with) would also minimize problems and most are just punk kids whos parents would dole out the last punishment when the rest of the family can't do anything.

Such software is not hard to write and only requires updating the filters to keep up with those attempting to skirt the censors.  Chat log data can be easily piped to dedicated servers designed to process this text as it comes in so as to minimize the load on the actual Home servers themselves.

Mods would only be necessary to be involved when the software has a severe offender and thus requires human intervention to allow an intelligent decision.

So I said all of that to say this, "There is no excuse for this sort of environment"  You have a society based on anarchy with no real punishments for rule breaking.  When actions have real consequences, many don't do them.  Which makes it even easier to locate those that do it anyway.

So where do you apply the filter, keeping in mind that you're dealing with spontaneous human reactions? Does it kick in after someone says "stop" for the fifth time or the tenth? What if they're not being harassed? What happens when griefers find out how it works and abuse the system to punish others?

While what you say is, in theory, true, in practice it creates an incredible storm of unintended consequences. I've worked with filters like this in a community environment. They cause far more problems than they cure.

Ah, the typical lazy excuse answer of a software engineer.  I know, I've done that myself too.  I also didn't become a $200K a year software engineer believing everything is impossible just because someone said it was impossible.

Has it been tried here?  I am curious.  The beauty of a 3D environment such as this, is proximity can be determined as well as the words detected.  Pattern detection works for spam as well as it can here.  Granted, it's not perfection, but perfection is not the point.  The point is assisting the mods with the simple work and leaving them to handle the serious stuff.

Seriously, detecting abusive patterns of "speech" is not hard to program for.  Detecting it happening frequently within a certain period of time also isn't hard to program for.  Such Baysian algorithms are trainable and tweakable.  Punishment can be set only after a set number of warnings.  It's not like the Master Control Program or Skynet here.

Real life policing isn't perfect, but it gives a fairly civilized society as could this do for Home.

Heck, want to avoid false positives?  Simple, only activate the automation if a report is filed on the user.  Easy as pie.  False reports would result in the reporter being warned.

The key here is this software sorting through the crap for the mods.  That alone should be worth it even if it doesn't do any warning or punishing itself.

What I think would be a greater help is simply personal space barriers for those you have blocked or set to Ignore.  No more face humping, unwanted gynological exams or Running Man punching etc.  It would essentially de-troll the trolls from their physical obnoxiousness.

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Fender Bender
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Re: When is enough - ENOUGH Sony?

Aug 13, 2011

SuperShops wrote:

Ah, the typical lazy excuse answer of a software engineer.  I know, I've done that myself too.  I also didn't become a $200K a year software engineer believing everything is impossible just because someone said it was impossible.

Has it been tried here?  I am curious.  The beauty of a 3D environment such as this, is proximity can be determined as well as the words detected.  Pattern detection works for spam as well as it can here.  Granted, it's not perfection, but perfection is not the point.  The point is assisting the mods with the simple work and leaving them to handle the serious stuff.

Seriously, detecting abusive patterns of "speech" is not hard to program for.  Detecting it happening frequently within a certain period of time also isn't hard to program for.  Such Baysian algorithms are trainable and tweakable.  Punishment can be set only after a set number of warnings.  It's not like the Master Control Program or Skynet here.

Real life policing isn't perfect, but it gives a fairly civilized society as could this do for Home.

Heck, want to avoid false positives?  Simple, only activate the automation if a report is filed on the user.  Easy as pie.  False reports would result in the reporter being warned.

The key here is this software sorting through the crap for the mods.  That alone should be worth it even if it doesn't do any warning or punishing itself.

What I think would be a greater help is simply personal space barriers for those you have blocked or set to Ignore.  No more face humping, unwanted gynological exams or Running Man punching etc.  It would essentially de-troll the trolls from their physical obnoxiousness.

LOL SuperShops said Skynet... I coulnt help but laugh, good one, I liked that referance... I agree with you, it would not be impossible to impliment a better program for safety and comfort for HOME customers/beta testers... same was true 5 years ago when they could have implimented a descent translation program and Monitary system instead of going region bassed... it might have brought the world one step closer to each other... the problem I see is simply time consumption on building the program vs developing, games, and clothing in HOME that make big bucks... they probibly see it as too costly and aggrivating, when in the long run it might save them money they would have to pay real people to do stuff not to mention a happier fan base means happier customers... yet for some reason they like the way its going... I dont blame them, they seem to make good money, yet I would really like to see some real numbers on how happy people really are with HOME and not some mass survey that has multiple accounts per person posting... anyway.. I loved the Skynet comment... it honestly made my day... I think I might have smiled for the first time today when I read it...

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: When is enough - ENOUGH Sony?

Jan 24, 2012

Thread locked after being necro'd. -M.S.

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