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Jan 10 2010
By: White_oyster PlayStation MVP 3472 posts
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Do new games have to have new graphics?

45 replies 38 views Edited Jan 10, 2010

For a while now I have been feeling that the video game publishers need to seriously change their business models.  Spending Millions upon millions of dollars for a game is not cost effective unless it goes on to be a million copy seller.  For games it seems a large number of the budget seems to be doing top of the line graphics.  Now I'm not saying I don't love drop dead graphics in RPG's I do, but at the same time with RPG's in particular I respect a unique art style more so than perfect HD graphics.  And when using unique art style you can get away with less it seems.

I still hope companies like Square enix will continue their big budget RPG's but those companies are never going to take serious risks with those games.  If a different business model was used, where if they were to only sell a few hundred thousand copies were to be profitable then the niche and cult market opens up to them and becomes a profitable business model.  Atlus seems to do well enough after all.  And then we could see companies allowing their creative staff to be more creative with ideas and plots instead of being dictated too.  

RPG's seriously need some drastic new plot ideas of which I have some which I'd love to see made.  But whos going to spend millions and millions of dollars on something so different and untested?

 

So would you guys buy and enjoy RPG's with more last gen graphics?  Or do you need creamy HD graphics?  Actually in my mind it would be more inbetween last gen and this gen.  But I know a lot of people complain about the graphics in that instance.  So if this fabulous new business model was adopted what would the reaction be for RPG's?  I might be wrong but it seems people might accept this more with RPG's, but freak out if it was another genre.  

 

I think possibly at some point the video game industry is going to seriously have issues with the cost of making games continuing to go up.  And they will be forced to change.  Right now if a game does not sell at least a million copies it is considered a failure.  But Atlus shows you can be profitable in other ways.   I'd like to see both high and low budget RPG's with the low budget being more like independant hollywood, where some of the more interesting non main stream stuff comes out.  As far as I can see there is nothing like that for RPG's right now.  

 

Now I'm not giving an excuse here for sloppy and bad graphics.  Graphics can still be good without being high end.  There are some games that still stand up today that were on old systems.  It seems to just come down to the art direction.  

So do games have to have new graphics to sell?  And do you think affordability due to graphics is why it has taken so long for Atlus to make a game for the PS3?  Would Persona 4 have been accepted on the PS3 if it had the same graphics it has now?

 

This isn't really a thread about graphics, I just can very easily see the industry coming to a head if things continue the way they are now and RPG's continue to get more and more expensive to make.  What I have said may be a way of cutting costs and giving us games that we want.  I just want to gauge how risky it would be if RPG's were to be released without current gen graphics.  And without the high budget gleaming cut scenes. 

And as I said it may also be a chance to refresh the genre with truly new and interesting plots and scenarios.  I think RPG's still have the majority of their growth in front of them, rather than behind them.  But I can't see them growing if it takes millions upon millions to make them.  I also am disliking this trend of having most RPG's heading to handhelds.  But its not surprising, its so much more cost effective.  

It is a little dissapointing that even though it is so much more cost effective that developers have still not really tried anything new with the RPG. There actually have been a couple of games that have broken out of the mold and been reall interesting, but you can count those on a couple of fingers.  I don't get why, since financially they have the chance they aren't expanding their imagination.  

But my point is they have the opportunity, and a few games have tried it.  I want to see that same opportunity given to console RPG's, but a serious shift in thinking and gaming philosophy would have to happen first.  So would we be able to change the way we thought about RPG's?

Yes! No! wait...what was the question again?

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I Only Post Everything
Registered: 12/12/2007
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Re: Do new games have to have new graphics?

Jan 10, 2010

Hmm I definitely bought some of the new not so HD rpgs like Disgaea 3 and X-Edge.   But i do enjoy lookin and the beautiful scenery in Eternal Sonata and Valkryia Chronicles.  hmm i think i do prefer it to be at least hd sharp even in top down views just because the technology is here now, and it just doesn't seem like it will take that much more time ( though it probably does).  Though i won't mind them doing something on purpose like 3D dot hero with giant pixel blocks.

 

So um yea i would prefer nice sharp hd graphics, but having less won't prevent me from buying it as long as its not just lazyness.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Do new games have to have new graphics?

Jan 10, 2010
Would cell-shading graphics be less expensive than the current HD computer renderings that many RPGs have now (I'm thinking Final Fantasy XIII)? Because if so, I'd recommend more developers use cell-shading. I have heard from a couple people that cell-shading is a "lazy" method of creating graphics. I don't know about that but what I do know is that cell-shading is awesome. I believe that cell-shading allows the developer to easily give their games a unique artistic style to them. Take Tales of Vesperia for example. The game looks like a work of art with all of its colorful environments and characters. Borderlands scrapped the HD look and went for the cell-shading one and now there is no other game like it. It caught more attention when it brought out this wacky new look and I think that helped boost the game's sales. And I think the critics love cell-shading too. Valkyria Chronicles was highly praised for its graphics. And rightfully so. It looks like a water color painting. How many other games can you think of that look like a water color painting. Simply beautiful. Well I'm going to end my post here because I think I've typed cell-shading too many times by now.
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Splicer
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Re: Do new games have to have new graphics?

Jan 10, 2010

I am not a graphics maniac so I would buy games with worse graphics!

 

Hera comes another question! Would you buy a low priced 2D RPG with topdown view?

Message Edited by tpsioulas on 01-10-2010 07:32 AM
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Do new games have to have new graphics?

Jan 10, 2010

tpsioulas wrote:

I am not a graphics maniac so I would buy games with worse graphics!

 

Hera comes another question! Would you buy a low priced 2D RPG with topdown view?

Message Edited by tpsioulas on 01-10-2010 07:32 AM

I would. Cross Edge did a good job doing it.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Do new games have to have new graphics?

Jan 10, 2010

no but there are devs who've proven that

 

they can work on both graphics, story, gameplay, multiplayer and even co-op department all at once

 

while pulling off an over-the-top experience for the user; i'm sure people already know what game i'm talking about.

 

so saying that one can deal with awful graphics with good gameplay is questionable.

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Survivor
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Re: Do new games have to have new graphics?

Jan 10, 2010

a lot needs to change in companies buisness strategies. for one why do they cost millions of dollars in the first place? you have your employees (probably around 50-100 idk just pulling as random number), you have your programmers, story board designers, character desginers, music, etc on 50,000 a year. and then you buy your dev kits, and the only thing that should ever cost extra is disc duplication, and getting the box art to the box (so box duplication?) and your voice actors. and thats it not millions of millions of dollars just around a million at the most ever because of your team an how big it is. the video game companies should run a buisness model as the same as regular jobs not running it as a hollywood. that alone could save them a crap load of money.

 

but if they take the route of using older grpahics then they should stick with psn/xbl/wiiware, or make games for psp/ds/wii/ps2. if they're going to go with ps3 or 360 then yes the should use hd graphics. if the don't want to spend a lot then they should consider instead of using ultra realism like ffxiii/lo/so4/i-u, then how about using the anime cell shaded that eternal sonata/ar tonelico 3/ artilier rorona/tov/tog uses. or how about an inbetween like enchanted arms or wkc.

 

there are many directions they can go with but using ps2 graphics i don't think thats viable unless they design it for ps2 or wii and if they do use that then they will get scrutany and the game will get shuned and ignored. people wouldn't want to spend 40 for a ps3 game that looks like ps2 they rather buy it for 20 and play it on a ps2. or make innovated controls and push it to the will where they could get 50 for the game.

 

mo games should ever really be costing developers/publishers that much in there first place. the only things that should ever change in price is the subcontracting for the va, disc/box duplicators and thats it every think else should be salried and the dev kits should have been a one time buy. a million at most but i really think they could get away with 200k -750k at the max.

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PlayStation MVP
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Re: Do new games have to have new graphics?

Jan 10, 2010

  Well, I'm now a multi-system owner for the first time, and the other current gen system that I own isn't an HD console.  And when I play games, including rpgs on it, I don't do so for the graphics.  I certainly don't play handheld rpgs for the graphics, nor do I play ps2 rpgs for the graphics.  Every once in the while I play one of the rpgs in The Ultimate Genesis Collection(right now I'm still working on Phantasy Star II), and I certainly don't play any of them for the graphics.  And I don't even play ps3 rpgs for the graphics.  Sure, games like VC and Demon's Souls are really pretty, but that's not why I play them.  One day they will look outdated too. 

 

  So even if an rpg doesn't run at 1080P with jaw dropping realistic visuals, I'll still enjoy it if the game itself is good.  And if a developer chooses to release a game with an art style that doesn't push the capabilities of a certain system, I don't think they should be criticized for it.  I mean, if a developer really puts their heart into their creations for the sake of their art, shouldn't they be granted enough creative freedom to produce the game they want to produce?  The advantage of the Cell, and blu-ray discs only allow more room for creativity, and in my opinion, that fact should not be used to limit it.  

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Splicer
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Re: Do new games have to have new graphics?

Jan 10, 2010

densetsu86 wrote:

a lot needs to change in companies buisness strategies. for one why do they cost millions of dollars in the first place? you have your employees (probably around 50-100 idk just pulling as random number), you have your programmers, story board designers, character desginers, music, etc on 50,000 a year. and then you buy your dev kits, and the only thing that should ever cost extra is disc duplication, and getting the box art to the box (so box duplication?) and your voice actors. and thats it not millions of millions of dollars just around a million at the most ever because of your team an how big it is. the video game companies should run a buisness model as the same as regular jobs not running it as a hollywood. that alone could save them a crap load of money.

 

<snip>

 

 

 

mo games should ever really be costing developers/publishers that much in there first place. the only things that should ever change in price is the subcontracting for the va, disc/box duplicators and thats it every think else should be salried and the dev kits should have been a one time buy. a million at most but i really think they could get away with 200k -750k at the max.


You're really overestimating how much the people who work on games get paid. It's not that great, and during the 'crunch' nonsense the hours per dollar ratio is pathetic. Many are contractors too, not employees. And it's not always straight forward work either. You don't go in and work on Asteroids 7 every day. You might be contracted to work on Asteroids 7, and that project gets shelved by the publisher, or repurposed into Centipede 4, by another developer. The business is chaotic, poorly run and unkind to dev companies and developers themselves. If you think you can run a business better, I don't doubt you, but you're welcome to try.

 

There's not really such a thing as "HD graphics" HD is the resolution the graphics are displayed at. Fat Princess is in 1080p and I wouldn't call the graphics revolutionary. And to my knowledge there aren't any PS3 games lower than 720p.


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Wastelander
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Re: Do new games have to have new graphics?

Jan 10, 2010

I think they should at least have to have sharp hd images.

If you're going to make 2d sprites, make it sharp, not pixelated. Just my opinion

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