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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 10/26/2010
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 1, 2011

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Hey everyone, quick question for you that I'm curious about.  Essentially, why SOCOM? 

I feel that many who post on the SOCOM forum are evangelists for the series either good or bad, with roots stretching back nearly a decade, as such I want to get to the core of what made you fall in love with the franchise in the first place, and what are the real core elements in future games that would bring you back.  From brainstorming a bit here are some of the keys I came up with:

-3rd person shooter

-Tactical

-Realistic

-Sense of Community

-Sense of Teamwork

-Roots/ties

-Gameplay (specifically what aspects)

-Fast paced nature

-Stealth

-Variable tactics and ever shifting gameplay/matches

There are many more I'm sure, but what I'd like to ask you is, what are the top three core things about SOCOM for you that made the game and franchise what it is?  Also why are they important?

Thanks in advance guys for keeping it civil and constructive. 

-SP

Sony had me at the very first SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs. Voice Command was one of my most favorite SP features of the franchise. The A.I. of the team was impressively on point. When I put my crosshairs on a door and gave the command for Bravo to "BREACH, BANG, CLEAR", the team's execution was step by step, text book true to life procedure. The PS2 series in single player gave a close feeling of what it's like to be a U.S. Navy SEAL. The cinematics were realistic in a sense that yes, Navy SEALs would do high altitude sky diving from a C-130 at night and land near the target area undetected. Or, yes, a helicopter would fly in at low altitude, deploy the high speed rubber raft into the water as the SEALs dive in after it. And in brief cinematics after lazing a target, watching Navy F-18's soar in to take out your target. Everything was about as realistic as it could get with PS2's graphics and technological limits.The single player missions were so much fun to play. You weren't stuck in one global region the entire game and each region you were up against a new enemy faction with a new threat in each region. The best part of the missions was how True-to-Life they were, as in the real life Navy SEALs could or actually have encountered these threats and scenarios. Hostage rescues and extractions we're the best missions because it involved even more quick thinking and strategy to get package out of there without costing his or her life. Then the final best part of single player was after the pre-deployment briefings, you were given the commanding choice to equip your AI teammates with a desired weapon and attachment. With all of these features, it evolved the game into how YOU wanted to play it, unless ordered in the briefing or narrorator to carry out a portion of the mission undetected or the entire mission would be a failure. The game made you think of strategies.  You could send Bravo team stealthly to higher ground to provide you and Able silenced sniper cover while emerging from the water or bush to stealth kill sentrys. Once the sentrys were down, command bravo to open fire to take down anyone missed or out of range. I loved that. I miss that. The PS2 series was breath taking, and by the time I joined the military, I appreciated the series even more.

I'll admit I never set foot into the PS2's online play. Mainly for the reason I failed to convince my close friends to try. I never attempted the PSP series, mainly because of the lack of the voice commands and PSP limited graphics, let alone never owned a PSP.

So then we get to the Playstion 3 era, and Confrontation is released. My main disappointment was the lack of a single player game to it, but for what it's worth, I'm glad it was set up as an online multiplayer game after all. If it had a single player, it would have taken me longer to try out the multiplayer rather than just dive into it. I got addicted to Confrontation though and I still am. I love the fact that you have so much customization for your character and you can change it anytime, and change your weapon attachments and layout in lobbies or inbetween death and spawning. In respawn, I love the fact you have control over the map size, game mode, time of day, spawn counts, kill counts, round time, and so on. Though most players I find are picky and avoid rooms with night maps or Cold Front maps. I can understand their beef though. I'm personally comfortable playing any map, any time of day because just by being in the military myself, I can appreciate that we have no control over where we deploy and what time of day we take action. We just suck it up and get the job done. The nice thing was the maps aren't overly cluttered with things to hide behind. Snipers have a good open view in most cases, and on large maps, long range kills. Run and gunners have room to move and ground to cover, while campers had corners, vehicles, and crates to still hide behind. Some maps have water to swim and submerge under for avoiding fire, taking alternate routes, or sneaking behind enemy lines. I like how clans are factions featuring Special Forces from different countries and each faction has additional weapons, armor skins, head gear, camos, and voices. It adds a certain diversity and true-to-life coalition fighting, as I too deployed and worked with forces around the globe to fight against a common enemy. As far as the side switching after rounds, I'm fine with it. You're not stuck playing from just one perspective. It's fair to share the role with the opposing team as well. Push/HOLD to talk has always been my preferred mode of communication. It keeps out most of the background noise from other players as opposed to an open mic, and the game isn't cluttered with overlapping conversations. The proximity mic is just brilliant especially for taunting an enemy personally, having to stay silent to avoid detection, or finding the enemy who isn't smart enough to keep his mouth shut. "Gun Hot" has got to be the best DANGER CLOSE indication when looking for a camper or a sniper who was called out by a teammate. It's as close to what we in the military would call "situational awareness". It's a shame it never made it into SOCOM 4. Any shooter game that allows me to customize my controller layout will always make me a happy player, and Confrontation does this. I realize most players oppose the OTS cam, I honestly prefer to use it, so having the choice between OTS and CLASSIC cams in the options menu is benefiting for everyone. The recoil mechanics is on point for each weapon, but I will agree with most critics that some weapons are either over powered (DE.50) or too accurate (F90) over a great distance. The sound effects are amazing. The ear ringing, deafening sound of being to close to an explosion is so true-to-life. Reloading is close to what it really should be (ejecting and replacing magazine/clip then charging/cocking weapon while spended magazines/clips retain unspent ammo) ...except when it comes to the speed of reloading. In real special forces standards, you would never make the cut if you reloaded that slow, especially in critical stress situations. Camping is an issue, but when you can out smart them by taking different routes and take them by surprise. Then there are the cheaters/glitchers/lag switchers. They purposely make they're own respawn rooms (usually titled "GLITCH NO KILL") to find ways to take advantage of legit players. And sadly the only way to punish them is by getting enough votes from the team he's on to kick him out. Then he just returns under a different PSN ID, or is smart enough to leave the room before the vote count kicks him, and he jumps right back in. This is the #1 disappointment I find in this game? This PS3 has more customization options than any shooter game out there, which is why I'm still addicted to it today.

Then we get to SOCOM 4. I can see why some say it's a great shooter game and from my own playing experience I can say it's decent, but it should have never been titled SOCOM. There are so many changes to this game from single player to multiplayer that it's difficult for most of us die hards to call it a SOCOM. As far as multiplayer goes, I can honestly say BOMB SQUAD (or EOD as we military personnel call it) and UPLINK "Capture the Flag Intel" game modes was new, different, and kind of fun. Although BOMB SQUAD would have been more fun if the defending team actually planted the bombs rather than the bombs have preset game-start locations. Unfortunately that's where good additions end. LAST DEFENSE is a the most camper orientated game mode ever designed. There's no longer Escort, Extraction, Breach (although Breach in Confrontation was a bit lame), and the original Demolition. The map layouts are small and feel too similar to Call of Duty at times, and just overly cluttered with objects to hide behind in essence to use the cover system as much as a player would like to. I personally am not against the "idea" of the cover system, but for run and gunners, it's their worst nightmare and it's a camper's wet dream. There's just too many objects in the maps that it's used to a point where those who lack skill abuse the system. If CLASSIC mode didn't have the propelled explosives and the claymores were remote detonated like they once used to be, it'd be one step closer to earning the SOCOM title. However that's only one step out of a mile's worth of travel. I don't get why even the cross hairs had to be changed. Everything is now "play to unlock"  which was never a SOCOM requirement while has been the requirement for Call of Duty. The addition of adding Air Strikes for an individual's kill streaks is nothing more than a Call of Duty's kill streak perk. Single Player is no U.S. Navy SEALs game. Just because of single player alone, it should have been properly titled "SOCOM: NATO Ops", or more so "SOCOM: This Shouldn't Have Been Titled SOCOM". It steps away from Navy SEAL believablity by giving it a corny story line and tying the Ops Commander and 45 into it. It steps away from Navy SEAL reality with health regen and AI teammates who pile up over each other as they are downed, one by one, for stepping out into open fire to miraculously revive one teammate. It steps away from Navy SEAL procedure when I put crosshairs on a doorway and command my team to advance and they walk right in and are suddenly taken down because BREACH, BANG, CLEAR no longer exists. It steps away from Navy SEAL ethics when it comes to sending in 1 operative on a stealth mission without sniper support.  All and all, by now you should get my point that this game doesn't deserve it's title when you compare it to it's predecessors and that my fellow fans, is why I can't love this game. It's a complete downgrade of the PS2 series and a down right insult to the real life U.S. Navy SEALs

What the Forum really needs now is FUTURE SOCOM GAME IDEAS DISCUSSION on the Forum main page. Formatted so the idea discussions with most "likes" is saved into a bank where the future developers can read into for brain storming. The die hard fan complaints in SOCOM 4 DISCUSSION can be shifted into more progressive discussions in the FUTURE SOCOM GAME IDEAS. A great SOCOM: U.S. NAVY SEALs game for PS3 is still possible if the right people out there are listening.

PLAYSTATION 3 NEEDS A SERIOUS SOCOM GAME
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I Only Post Everything
Registered: 01/28/2011
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 1, 2011

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Hey everyone, quick question for you that I'm curious about.  Essentially, why SOCOM? 

I feel that many who post on the SOCOM forum are evangelists for the series either good or bad, with roots stretching back nearly a decade, as such I want to get to the core of what made you fall in love with the franchise in the first place, and what are the real core elements in future games that would bring you back.  From brainstorming a bit here are some of the keys I came up with:

-3rd person shooter

-Tactical

-Realistic

-Sense of Community

-Sense of Teamwork

-Roots/ties

-Gameplay (specifically what aspects)

-Fast paced nature

-Stealth

-Variable tactics and ever shifting gameplay/matches

There are many more I'm sure, but what I'd like to ask you is, what are the top three core things about SOCOM for you that made the game and franchise what it is?  Also why are they important?

Thanks in advance guys for keeping it civil and constructive. 

-SP

The biggest thing you left out was One Life. That in and of itself was what made me into a Socom junkie. Face it, there are enough Ranked Respawn games out there. In order to play a game that was One Life, that took skill and there was a huge learning curve. Anyone can do Ranked Respawn, Spawn, die, spawn, die...thats easy. Try playing a game where you get 1 life per round, Where you HAVE to rely on your Team to complete objectives,  you Have to use the Mic for call outsand be able to carry your own weight. That is what, among other things, made Socom such a strong Franchise at the beginning. Add in round based modes, unbalanced in some maps, weapons that actually kill what you hit, and the Lobbies where you could either hold Clan Tryouts or shoot the **** with people and make new, long lasting friends and you have a recipe for a great game.

Socom 4 has none of these. Yeah it has a Classic Mode, but if you have played any of the previous Socoms, especially Socom 1 or 2, then you would understand how Socom 4's Classic Mode is a slap in the face. Considering it is based on Ranked Respawn, like almost every other game out there, then maybe you can understand why the "Hardcore" Socomers are ticked off. If they would of named this anything else but socom 4, then there wouldnt be so much hatred for it and may of even had decent sales, but slapping the Socom name on it, and then failing to deliver, once again, a Real Socom, this game was doomed for failure from day 1.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 1, 2011

I believe you summed up everything that needed to be said...done!

"Once your expectations are reached, never be satisfied."
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Thanks for the constructive feedback so far everyone, it's appreciated.  Keep'em coming. 

-SP

Sushi:

Please tell us you actually going to do something with this information besides again building up foolish hope that Zipper may be listening - again. If in fact this may come of something useful, here are a few suggestions off the top of my head...

  1. This is the thread that you need to sticky, not the poll you just created.
  2. A summary of all common themes needs to be done (and polled on for 'keep' or 'kill')
  3. Keep the thread troll free and totally focused on what the community feels about what made socom

Side note: IMO #2 above is the most important part of managing the feedback so that the community actually has a voice as to what they want.

In order for this to happen, it may take awhile since people that post content may need to clarify what they meant.

I would also suggest a list of all members present within the threads to show Zipper that there are a lot more too the community as apposed to just those that post here from time to time. A list of signatures (petition) if you will. If you do so, I guarantee old names that haven't visited these forums in years will come back to be counted (thanks to word of mouth by the community members).



Anyone feel free to add or suggest otherwise, as I said prior... these are basic concepts that I am trying to suggest. Refinement and alternative concepts are welcome.

P.S. as for my feedback, I agree with S1 & S2 as the core design with S3's UI (with ping indicators) & what Wolf said (on pg. 2) & shifty said (above) works for me...

Even Boomer could get headshots in this game...

Socom Creed / The Unspoken Rules

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011
  •      1. Classic maps
  •      2. Classic gametypes (demo/supp/breach/extraction)
  •      3. Objective-based maps
  •      4. Classic gameplay
  •      5. Pistols
  •      6. Classic camera
  •      7. New maps built w/ the same spirit.
  •      8. Custom taunts
  •      9. Classic Controls
  •      10.  Lobbies
  •      11.  I'd also like Rainbow 6: Vegas-esque outfit customization. (Hey, I liked Con's customization. Vegas had the best custom camo ever).
  •      12.  Ranks that rewards skill, not XP. Like Socom 2, eg:
  •           1. ADMIRAL = Top 10 Players
  •           2. CAPTAIN = The Next 5% of Players
  •           3. LT. COMMANDER = The Next 25% of Players
  •           4. LIEUTENA NT = The Next 55% of Players
  •           5. ENSIGN = The Remaining 15% of Players
  • A working clan system.
  • 8v8 gameplay (16v16 is too much, diminishes "socom" gameplay)
  • Option to mute in-round music, but still have post-round music and menu music play.

You've all heard the same story before. People want SOCOM to play like SOCOM.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Hey everyone, quick question for you that I'm curious about.  Essentially, why SOCOM? 

what are the top three core things about SOCOM for you that made the game and franchise what it is?  Also why are they important?

Thanks in advance guys for keeping it civil and constructive. 

-SP

Fixed 3rd person camera

  I've played other TPS' like Warhawk, GTAIV, and Uncharted, and the fixed 3rd person camera just feels better to me. I don't really know how to explain it besides that.

SOCOM shuffle "hip-fire"

    SOCOM's hip fire is more accurate by strafing quickly (shuffling) back and forth (more so pre-1.04). The gunplay dance that takes place due to it takes skill and a kind of sixth sense when a player tries to predict where the enemy is going to shoot.

Fast movement speed

     It keeps the gameplay fast, but the SOCOM shuffle kept it in check and not making it a "twitch shooter".

Those 3 things together keep me a fan of SOCOM.  S4 has them! I can't wait for the DLC!

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Wastelander
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

It seems everything has pretty much been covered... But to reiterate (for Zipper/Sony)

MY TOP 3:

  1. Hardcore Gameplay 
    • Round-based, 1-Life per round.
    • Friendly-Fire is ON by default.
    • No Respawn (respawn is optional but unranked).
    • No Health-regeneration.
    • No Air-strikes.
    • No Kill-streaks.
    • No XP-based progression.
    • No Weapon unlocks.
    • Rewards skill/winners, not KDR.
    • No Sprint button.
    • No Cover-system.
    • Fast-paced, yet tactical to its core.
    • Guns are recoil-centric with minimal spray, except for a few SMGs and MGs (adjusted for balance).
  2. Map/Level Design
    • A vast array of map variety: Jungle, Snow, Desert, Urban, Rural.
    • Symmetrical and/or asymmetrical maps.
    • Wide, mountainous-open spaces (a sniper's paradise), but with valleys, plateaus, caves and/or corridors. Also, tight or indoor, choke-point filled maps (conducive to closed-quarter battles) - or a mixture of both.
    • Maps designed around one game mode. No supposed team-based objectives (ala CTF, Domination types).
  3. Lobbies
    • Builds communities.
    • A place for clan-tryouts, clan-practices and friend hangouts.
    • User-created rooms (preferably ranked).
    • Rooms are private or public and can be password protected.
    • Limitless Game Customization. A few examples: No-Boom rooms, Snipers Only, Pistols Only, Paint-ball, etc-etc.

Zipper Interactive, go back to who you were. A hardcore developer for hardcore gamers.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

The core things are still there in Socom 4, people just refuse to say it. If these things were not there I would not be playing this game.

3rd person shooter (even though camera is overly sensitive)

Tactical non respawn gameplay (even though XP ranking system is crap)

The community..No other shooter has a better community than Socom (even though mics are dodgy)

Clan battling (even though party system is disfunctional at times)

That is the core to Socom in my opinion. It is there with with gashes, but it is there. And this is why I know for a fact people who say they're leaving for BF3 or any other shooter are lying because I know this stuff is what makes Socom and you cannot get this stuff in other shooters like you do in Socom.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

SunavaGun82 wrote:

The core things are still there in Socom 4, people just refuse to say it. If these things were not there I would not be playing this game.

3rd person shooter (even though camera is overly sensitive)

Tactical non respawn gameplay (even though XP ranking system is crap)

The community..No other shooter has a better community than Socom (even though mics are dodgy)

Clan battling (even though party system is disfunctional at times)

That is the core to Socom in my opinion. It is there with with gashes, but it is there. And this is why I know for a fact people who say they're leaving for BF3 or any other shooter are lying because I know this stuff is what makes Socom and you cannot get this stuff in other shooters like you do in Socom.

SOCOM 4 nothing like SOCOM.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

Dominator94- wrote:

SunavaGun82 wrote:

The core things are still there in Socom 4, people just refuse to say it. If these things were not there I would not be playing this game.

3rd person shooter (even though camera is overly sensitive)

Tactical non respawn gameplay (even though XP ranking system is crap)

The community..No other shooter has a better community than Socom (even though mics are dodgy)

Clan battling (even though party system is disfunctional at times)

That is the core to Socom in my opinion. It is there with with gashes, but it is there. And this is why I know for a fact people who say they're leaving for BF3 or any other shooter are lying because I know this stuff is what makes Socom and you cannot get this stuff in other shooters like you do in Socom.

SOCOM 4 nothing like SOCOM.

Stay focused people...lets not screw this thread up please.

Even Boomer could get headshots in this game...

Socom Creed / The Unspoken Rules

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