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First Son
Registered: 10/26/2009
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

Lobbies:

- I like having a home to hang out in.. Canada East 2!

- text in lobby que's

-  User Created Rank Rooms.. never going to stop the nerds, their smarter than you. you use need 2 ps3's and your systems is broken so just let them rank up, bring back the butterstick, cookie, eagle ranking system.

- Quick Match system based on your rank, if you just want to jump into a quick game then go to work.

Fluid Movement:

- Able prone/duck/crouch/stand also lean left/right with all options (This was our cover system)

- Pressure sensitive movement (walk/jog/run/sprint) analog sticks were made for this.

- NO RUN BUTTON !!  it's a gimmick

- NO SNAP TO COVER !! it's a gimmick

- Jump to Climb/Dive to Prone, this worked well and saved me so may times.

- Able to shoot/throw while leaning and not hit the wall/tree/car/whatever that you are covering behind

- Classic Thrid Person View/Over the Shoulder options.  I hate OTS with a passion!! I know some like it but I'm not one of them.  Just give both options and everyone is happy, have the able to switch from left/right OTS.

Teamwork:

- Push to Talk communication with proxy open mic. this was awesome. One could call out enemys to the entire team and also talk to your fireteam without taking up the mic. People play music while playing (like me) some have kids in the background, dogs mouthing off, etc. This is very annoying with open mic, PTP solves this prob. Proxy you can just run away and the sound go's away.

- Asymmetrical Maps. Death Trap/Sujo/Enowapi.. these maps took teamwork!! Terrorist had the clear advantage on these maps. Only a team working together would prevail.

Controllers/Mechanics:

- All the other socom games had may types of contoller set ups.. I used precision shooter setup, other's use frogman, can never go wrong with more options.

- NO RUN BUTTON !!  it's a gimmick

- NO SNAP TO COVER BUTTON!! it's a gimmick

- NO DEDICATED GRENADE BUTTON!! it's a gimmick

- What I like about socom was it's simplicity, it was easy to pick up. Analog sticks moved you around the map, L1 shot, R2 switched guns, d-pad left/right lean, d-pad up/down zoom, triangle to toggle between prone/crouch/stand and square to jump. that's about all you needed. You didnt have to hit a 13 button combo just to run or 3 finger button tip behind your back to shoot.

- Random Bullet Spray. There is nothing more annoying when your crosshairs are on someone and you miss or you totally miss the guy yet get a head shot. This is the computer playing the game not you.  Socom used to be about precision not luck. If my crosshairs are targeted on the head, that's a head shot.. if I'm targeted on a torso.. then I should hit him in the chest. Control your gun and become a beast, shoot wildly and kill birds.

- First Person View, zoom.. just like it used to be. OTS was kinda cool, but I still hated it.

Environments:

- I am so sick of rival/desert enviroments. Every single game on this blue planet based in the middle east.  What happen to snow, jungle, beach, woodland, mountain/rocky maps.  Socom used to do this.

Gameplay:

- Custom Taunts!!

- Grenade Arc, I remember I used to be able to throw a grenade at the most obtuse angles and have them follow the path through a window/door/hallway.

- Smoke garenades, why do they last like 2 secs? should be like a minute then they would very tactical.  also I always love getting a kill with a 203 smoke... just somthing about hitting someone then a smoke surrounds them.

- Claymores.. detonation by the player not the computer.

- Modes, demolition, extraction, breach, escort, control points. It's cool to make new mode.. Bomb squad was pretty killer but dont kill off the goodies.

- Hand guns, there was just something sexy about killing someone with a sidearm when they were gunning with a assult rifle.  Why were they removed...

- Knock downs! I used to love this.. pop someone midrange in the chest with a shotgun or knock them down with a near by granade, switch to sidearm and pop twice in the chest.. that was fun.

- thermal scope/nightvision, are awesome for night maps.. but they need to have react to environments. Bright light should blind one with nightvision. Blizzard, Thermal scope should kick ass there see anything with heat.. but somewhere hot like a desert people should become invisible.  Like standing next to a fire or running car. Sandstorm would be a good example. during the day, hot thermal would be kinda pointless, during the night a bit better. Hot/Cold regions. equipment setup based on knowing the map temp/time.

- Tiebreaker round. need odd rounds.. 3 - 5 - 7 - 9 - 11...  This was fun.. very much so. all the other games dont matter all come down to the final.. your team has fully whiped, your the only one left, the enemy is encroaching slowly, 3 deep, what do you do.

Single Player:

- If I want to watch a movie, I will do so.  If I want to watch a movie in a game, I'll play MetalGear or Uncharted. movies cinematics do not belong in socom.  See how simple socom cutscenes used to be... that's how I like.. Bad dudes steal a nuke.. they are in a base in the mountains... jump out of a plane and go kill them, get the nuke back... end of story, next mission.  Socom used to be about planing your missions, different angles. Not a worm's eye view of 50 cent shotting two M60's

- Voice commands, This was sooo much fun!  "Fireteam! Full Attack!!" "Bravo Team! Sleath To Echo!" and they do it! You could talk to the fracking computer and they would understand you.. crazy! fun!

- Just keep the game simple.. all those fancypant cinematics tricks are cool, I just like how game was open, I could just move around when I wanted, attack any direction that I desire. could do objectives out of order. could be a snipeing team or run and gun..

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Sackboy
Registered: 03/18/2009
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

You read my mind McNoob, I remember reading that thread.

ALL of this info has been supplied, recommended, sh!t, even yelled in frustration..time and time again. Way before Zipper started the S4 development.

They knew exactly what we wanted!! How can I say that with a straight face? SOCOM 2!!!!

P.S. In no way am I trying to be negative or start drama...but enough is enough. I appreciate you wanting to make this happen just as bad as we do, Sushi.

I don't know who's worse, Zipper/Sony or the blind/misguided fanbags they have spawned. See what I did there? hahaha I kill me! lol

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Ghost of Sparta
Registered: 06/27/2003
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Hey everyone, quick question for you that I'm curious about.  Essentially, why SOCOM? 

and what are the real core elements in future games that would bring you back.

Thanks in advance guys for keeping it civil and constructive. 

-SP

There you go, I felt like this needed to be stated here, just to be sure:

http://community.us.playstation.com/thread/3483118

r_e_v wrote:

SOCOM 4

A Competitive Player's View

DON'T LET SOCOM DIE SUPPORT VIDEO

FACEBOOK SUPPORT PAGE!

This thread is a dedicated contribution to the ideas, opinions, and overall viewpoint of the "Competitive" Socom player, so let the truth be known on how we feel. We will be discussing different topics each day and this thread will be constantly updating.

Alright boys and girls, sit back, relax and get comfy, because it's time to reveal the key elements in making SOCOM 4 into the competitive natured game it's predecessor's once were, and has since then diminished.

Keep In Mind:

we understand that Socom 4 has been in production for almost 3 years now and we realize many of these ideas and points we want established into the game have a decent chance of not being implemented, but our point is to at least give a representation of what would be worthy additions/subtractions, and with hope perhaps a few ideas could change some opinions upstairs.

TOPIC OF THE DAY: LONGJON's Video Updates


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

MOVEMENT & ANIMATION

One of the key concepts to accomplishing success in Socom 4, would be applying virtually what we have seen in the past from you guys: S1, S2, and S3 basic movements, while of course adding your own spice to the title, as it is 2010 and you (Zipper) have made it clear you are going to tinker in order to fit the need for the current generation.

The list below will show what the obvious wants are as far as movements and animations are concerned

-Reload Speed (make it snappy and quick, unlike confrontation)

-Strafing ( we want to feel loose and free, quick is the key here )

-Run Speed ( FAST, it's obvious we like speed, and Zipper has done that well in the past, so keep it fast!)

 

-Sprint ( keep it out, we'd rather run with our guns-a-blazing, the realism factor doesn't need to be present )

-Prone Dive ( we want the ability to dive down, stay down, or be able to pop back up quick, limitless, like in Socom 2)

-Prone Lean ( this should be enabled regardless how much realism your going for )

-Jump/Climb (boy is this implementation missed, we like to climb objects quickly, and objects that seem climbable too )

-Gun Switching ( Again with the free-feeling factor, fast, fast, fast, in a gunfight we want quick access to other weapons)

-Reload v2 (we'd like to do it fast as mentioned, but uninterrupted and also in mid-air, that limitation failed in S:CON)

-Firing Mid-Air ( Socom 3 was a little carried away, S:CON disabled it, and Socom 2 did it juuuuuust RIGHT!)

-Character ( make him ambidextrous as Zipper always has, it gives a much neater appearance and plays better as well)

-Lean ( make it useful, unlike Confrontation where you virtually had to put your whole body out to fire)

-Gun Hot ( make it like earlier iterations, not Confrontation's style )

-Speed Summary ( overall faster movements cause for more exciting gunfights, hence the addiction we know and love)

So, overall, essentially give us the formula of animation and movement's from your past games on the PS2, but selecting certain elements from each game and their the animations like the ones listed above.


LOBBIES

Ah yes, lobbies, the unique set-up lobbies bring to SOCOM gives us a community felt presence that no other game can resemble. This is one aspect of the game we are not worried about AT ALL when it comes to Zipper's many talents. They have proven to be "experts" if you will, in making superb Lobby Systems that flow and work flawlessly ( for the most part ). They have proven now in MAG that on the PS3 things will be just as soothing as before, with great transitions and quick menu pop-ups with virtually no load times.

So we know what Zipper can do, and we're asking that they replicate, to almost the same degree, a Socom 1, 2, or 3 lobby set-up. Any of these three or elements from each will give us what we're looking for and expecting in Socom 4. But for re-assurance, let's take a deeper dig into sub-elements of the Lobby breakdown.

-Fluid Menus (basically do what you guys have been doing in past Socoms, MAG shows us you can do it on the PS3)

-Text Chat (While Zipper always had text chat, Slant Six did not, keep text chat in the lobbies, we like it and it helps!)

-Single Map Rank Rooms ( hopefully Zipper will stay true to having rooms like "Desert Glory" Ranked i.e)

-Spectating (Socom 2 had the best set-up for this, use that formula and grow from there and we've got a winner)

-Message Boards (Socom 3 introduced this and was actually a great feature, would be nice if able to access them on the game)

-Friend Following (an in-game friends list with several options to choose and the addition to follow a friend - i.e MAG, Socom 3)

-Friend Location ( simply seeing where your friends are is a nice touch - let's not pull a Confrontation style view )

-UCCR ( aka User Created Ranked Rooms, glitchers are going to glitch regardless, so let's see this return )

-Community (Past Socom community features have been great, stick too them, creating clans and all of course )

Like we've touched on Zipper, you guys ROCK at making Lobbies, From all your past games we've seen great and innovative lobbies progress and we love it. Most of these ideas are in all Socom's that Zipper has created and more or less are reminders that we like your way and not Socom Confrontation's way.

Remember, lobbies are essentially a core part of the Socom experience, even if it does sound like a smaller, less important element, it just gives that sense of unity, that we're all out there holding tryouts, recruiting, fighting epic battles, and having some good times, here we see the community in front of us, so make us feel at home! ( maybe a sweet theme song too )


GAMEPLAY

This topic is without a doubt one of the most crucial keys to success, and for Socom is the MAIN attraction. Forget flashy graphics, Socom has never been about that ( not to say Socom 4 won't look very pretty ). When it comes down to it, gameplay is what sucked us all in, the "star" of the show, without it,  Socom would be another fish in the bucket (analogy fail <<).

What exactly is gameplay? Well, we see it as a combination of the "feel" and overall structure of the game, to put it simple. Some features that don't have a particular section we'll be including here.

 

Here we'll discuss our list of crucial factors in gameplay:

-First Person View ( all past Zipper Socom's implemented this as the secondary view, and that's how we like it, simple as that)

-Weapon Selecting ( for the love of mankind this is not GRAW, Socom 1 and 2 perfected weapon selection, don't go changing)

-11 Rounds ( We like this number, ALOT, and we like to earn our tiebreakers via battlefield, not by computer decision; s1,2,3)

-Movement ( see MOVEMENT AND ANIMATION section; movement is another valued "feel" we missed in Confrontation )

-Bomb Respawn ( why Slant Six decided to do this is a mystery, Zipper's non respawning bomb is definitely our preference )

-Bomb Pick Up ( pressing a button to perform an animated pick up just felt like betrayal, a simple walk-over always worked)

-Custom Taunts ( We miss these, badly, it's a small feature we absolutely LOVE, who doesn't like custom taunting? )

-Grenade Taunting ( Again, Zipper had these in all their games, Slant Six went bye bye with it. We want it back! Raheelah! )

-Grenades From Dead ( if a dead player has grenades on them, we should be able to pick them up, i.e Socom 2)

-Bullet Spray ( reduce the bullet spray, put in a system like Socom 1's accuracy set-up in virtually every aspect )

-Scoreboard ( Socom 1's between round scoreboard and Socom 2's in game scoreboard, we'd like to see total kills!)

-Side Switching ( Confrontation tried doing this at the halfway mark, and honestly, it's better off being 1 side per game )

There are many aspects we can associate with gameplay, so if some don't seem to the norm of what you define it's simply because we feel it'd be better here than in a smaller section/topic down the road.

While all of these elements are considered crucial, most of us are going to need to accept the fact that Zipper is going to change a few things, there's nothing we can do. It's 2010 and they want to open up new ideas, we know this. With that being said both new and old should be implemented to complement each other, giving us a fresh taste with the good ole Socom touch.


PERSPECTIVE VIEW

3rd Person

It's rare these days that you see a "true" 3rd person perspective like SOCOM gives us. Well, let me rephrase that, it's rare these days you see a true 3rd person perspective like SOCOM 1, 2, and 3. Yea, that's right, we were a little dissapointed to see the 3rd person view change a tad in Confrontation. The view seems to become "cluttered" at times and is a "closer-up" view in most circumstances.

We always enjoyed the further out "classic" third person view from Zipper's Socom games. Seeing more of your characters body was, I don't know how to put this, more soothing...a "turn-on" perphaps? Regardless, we'd like to see something more along the lines of our "original" TPS view.

Here we have the "classic" 3rd Person View from Socom 2:

Now here's Confrontations average 3rd person view:

Now, this isn't to say the Confrontation view was HORRIBLE, because it wasn't, BUT, for some reason the camera liked to stay closer up to the character rather than farther off.

Bottom line, Socom 1,2,3 "3rd person" view = YES

Confrontation = "3rd person" view = NO

First Person (Secondary)

Let's make this really simple, because we all know what we're going to say here.

Over the shoulder, a view we all wondered why was implemented in Confrontation as the secondary view. While on the other hand, the beloved first person view was completely rid of. again, WHY! The secondary first person view is absolutely superb.

OTS blocked a majority of the screen and gave for a very awkward viewpoint. Again, on the otherhand, first person secondary gave for a very CLEAR and highly visible view that could easily be toggled in and out of. Zipper again got it right in all their games, so keep it.

Optional

If the OTS view is going to be implemented, then a FPS view needs to be as well. Now, with both included, the option to choose which view will be your secondary needs to be included.

This means whichever secondary you choose, is going to be the only one your character can access. Pretty simple and effective for both crowds.

Overall, keep it original like the older Socoms and if you must, use the option suggestion we've come up with.


MAPS/ENVIRONMENTS

Alright now, this subject has been a large issue that has indeed diminished the value of overall experience to a much lesser degree than we once knew. Environments can make or break a Socom game, and we're going to touch on factors that do such a thing when it comes down to the big picture.

Factors and Keys to Success/Failure of Maps/Environments:

-One Mode Per Map

Socom 1 and 2 did it right. Each and every map was designed specifially for the mode assigned to it's formation and structure. Designers could focus purely on the outcomes/scenarios of the single purpose the map was going to give the audience. Socom 3 abandoned this tactic ( along with Confrontation), giving us less appealing environments, where designers essentially "forced" a mode to work on a map that was designed to attempt working for multiple modes, rather than structuring around the sole purpose of 1 mode. We like 1 map per mode, plain and simple.

-Water

Again, Socom 1 and 2 got it right ( hate to keep bringing up these 2 games but they give great examples ). We don't want to spend a full round searching for a guy swimming underwater in 6 miles of ocean water, it's just not fun. We will compromise with you, however. Water is perfectly fine, IF ( and that's a big IF ) you can keep it toned down to something similar to say "Blood Lake" styled water. Keep the largest depth of water "waist deep", and if you do decide or insist on deeper water, i'd be nice to keep that area to a small area.

-Vehicles

This has been a touchy subject for many, but, overall, they just don't work in Socom. The experience completely changes and ruins the effect of what Socom used to bring to the table. We understand some maps are going to be larger than others, but it's just a feature the community overall has rejected. We got around just fine in Foxhunt:smileyhappy:

-Destructible Environments

From the IGN write up, we know they're going to be destructible, however, we must question, to what extent? Heaven forbid this becomes Battlefield Bad Company, it'd be a sad day in the Socom universe. What we're hoping for is a few interactive spots in every map. Shoot a barrel here, explode a wooden crate there, similar to past Socom's. On the other hand, we understand it's 2010, so you're going to spice it up a bit, but there's a line to be drawn and hopefully it's not crossed. Also, don't take Slant Six's path and assume every map is a Terrorist mine field.

-Interactive Environtments

Zipper nailed this quite well in past Socoms, so here is a small list of examples of what they did and should continue doing:

-Doors = many doors were open and closable in all maps that contained them ( worked very well )

-Lights = lights could be flipped on in certain maps ( example : Enwopi Basement ) ( also shooting out lights )

-Objects = could be flipped on with a switch to be moved ( Chain Reaction- large metal plate could move along side the top)


-Breaching/Opening Breaches = ( Death Trap - all fence breaches could opened from the inside and C4'd from the outside)

                                            

-Airstrikes = could be called on certain maps (Enwopi, Sujo and Sandstorm were a few examples )

-Detonators= example - Crossroads ( Red Room Bridge and Bell Tower Bridge )


-Design

What makes a great Socom map? Ask your level designers from Socom 1 and 2. Socom 3 had some creative ideas as well, but something just didn't click to the degree the "classic" maps did. Socom Confrontation on the other hand, destroyed Zipper's classics and proceeded to be very poor at creating a rememberable and original experience on their attempts.

Furthermore, we need maps that are going to "flow". Yes it does sound a bit simple, but basically that's what it comes down to. a design that can create several paths to travel, while not over complicating anything.

Summary

Zipper, we know you're capable of giving us great environments and maps, we've seen it from you. While we worry of the issue, we must also remember these guys have been working on the game 3 years, and that can only mean more quality. Make us proud Zipper.


MUSIC/SOUNDTRACK

Zipper has chosen without a doubt the best way possible to handle their music in previous games. SOCOM is known for bringing a tear to your eye when hearing those memorable harmonies, sending chills down your spine and giving you a feeling you'll never experience in any other video game. The epic sensation that flows through your body when catching the pulsing, yet soothing, symphony is truly an undescribable feeling that we really can't explain, it's just that good! All they have to do is continue this same process and we'll have back a hell of a soundtrack.

So, how exactly did Zipper touch our inner souls time after time? Simple, seek out the best of the best, with expertise in the field. The following videos will show you exactly what we mean:

The Making of Socom's Muisic:

SOCOM 2- MAKING THE MUSIC

SOCOM 3- MAKING THE MUSIC

Zipper knew what they wanted, they set out a guideline, and they seeked out the best to give us something we'll never forget.

From what we've heard of Socom 4's theme music ( from the trailer ), it sounds as if they've done a GREAT job once again. I guess it's a sigh of releif after hearing a "Tribe Man" beat a drum for Confrontation's soundtrack.


WEAPONS/FIRING/AIMING/ETC

Finally, we arrive to the aspect of Socom that has changed up since the beginning of the series, sadly, for the worse, weapons. When we were first introduced to Socom 1, we had simple, balanced weapons, that were for the most part accurate. A bullet followed the exact path your crosshair lay upon, it was beautiful, almost like magic. Then along came Socom 2, the hit detection was seen as the "worst" of the series, it wasn't as perfect as Socom 1, nevertheless we enjoyed it very much. Then along came Socom 3 aka a casual gamer's paradise.

One thing we as a Socom community have always enjoyed about this game, was the constant struggle to become better. In Socom 1 and 2, you always felt as if your skill could improve, that your gun game could use work or practice. When Socom 3 hit, it was an obvious change, the learning curve had decreased down to that of the casual gamer, instead of staying true to the old "feel" of aiming and shooting your weapon.

The following are a mixture of issues having to do with multiple aspects of the weapon relm:

-Recoil ( Socom 3 and Confrontation really reduced recoil and therefore made the game easier, we think SOCOM should be skill)

-Crosshair Bounce ( somewhat related to recoil, but, Socom 1 and 2's crosshairs we're superb, the bounce needs to come back)

-Magnetic Headshots ( Zipper never had a problem with this, but don't make every other bullet a headshot (cough* slant 6) )

-Magnetic Bullets/Rails ( Again, Zipper never had a problem with this, but don't pull a Confrontation on us )

-Run/Shoot ( This is Socom, not real life, we'd like for the most part, to shoot somewhat accurate while running/strafing)

-Grenades ( Socom 1 got it perfect, hands down. from the throwing, to the meter, power, and amount of grenades allowed )

-Sniping ( This could go into deep deep detail, but to simplify = Take Socom 2's sniping system and upscale it for 2010 )

-Armor (Big NO NO. The playing field should be equal for everyone. If you include armor, make it for show and that's it )

-Perks ( This is not Call of Duty, while we understand the game needs to evolve in some ways, this should be left out )

-Knives ( Some hate them, Some love them, honestly we don't like them, but if you must include them, don't overpower them )

-Encumbrance ( Don't make this too realistic, that's all we ask, since we know it's going to be in the game )

-PMN Mines ( Regardless of how annoying these things can get, we miss them, Confrontation left them out, Zipper didn't )

-Gun Spray ( keep it to a minimum, we'd really like to see a Socom 1/2 syle system used here )

-Fire Rate ( We feel that with fire rate being reduced on most guns to simulate Socom 1 and 2's style, spray will reduce as well )

-Scopes ( Thermal scopes are fine, just don't overpower their power in terms of viewing distance, Socom 2 and 3 nailed it )

-Handguns ( All of Zipper's Socoms had great handguns and applied a good system to go along with it, keep it that way )

-Guns ( We like all of the classic weapons from past games, lots were missed in Confrontation! )

-Claymores ( Ideal in earlier iterations, but in Confrontation they rarely worked and detonator was a hassle to pull out )

-RPGS/M203s ( If you're going to include them, reduce their power and accuracy greatly from past games, no one likes um )

To sum everything up, weapons need BALANCE. Ensure the user that one side isn't overpowered with the better weapons, or even for that matter, that one weapon that's always going to be used due to it's ease to kill with. We'd like weapons to take skill to use, but at the same time are accurate when we've got our crosshairs on an enemies *******.

Gives us the goods Zipper...


GDC GAMEPLAY FEEDBACK

We understand the footage seen in the GDC videos are in the Pre-Alpha stages and also solely a demo from the Single Player, but, we'd like to strongly suggest and leave feedback from what we've seen gameplay wise. We'll be telling you guys what we liked, didn't like, and what we feel should not carry over into Multiplayer.

-First Person Secondary View

We've all made it clear we prefer the first person view for our secondary zoom over the OTS view. We see in the gameplay that sadly it's an OTS view. We're hoping this is solely a single player option and that we'll be able to use the beloved FPS secondary in the Multiplayer aspect ( or even optional for single player ).

Here is an example of why we find it more enjoyable and superior:

YES!

YES!

NO!

NO!

-3rd Person Perspective View

SOCOM 4

SOCOM 2

Again, here, we see the SOCOM 4 view being pushed up, closer to the body. It's more enjoyable being able to see the full body, not cut-off halfway. It'd be really nice to have this fixed, unless it was pushed up simply for the motion control demo. It's simply a turn-off, like mentioned earlier, to see our original 3rd person view "tortured".

-Cover System

We're not going to lie to you Zipper, just about every Loyal Socom Fan you've ever had just lost a lot of faith in this game. While we understand this is just single player, this cover system, if implemented in MP, could and more than likely will be the doom of Socom. It really seems like the core gameplay is becoming more "casual" and less like SOCOM. This element just seems to put us in a state where it's going to completely alter the feel we used to love from Socom 1, 2 and even 3. We're asking please not to implement this into MP.

-Visuals

For pre-alpha visuals are looking pretty good. We're not really worried about this aspect, as we know the graphics are going to be decent enough for us, because we're more for the actual gameplay!

-Movement Speed/Running

Like we've been preaching and preaching, and praying and praying, SPEED IT UP! Ever since Confrontation was released we've had to deal with slow/sluggish gameplay. With Zipper we are really hoping you guys can return to another element that made your Socom games so fun!

Take a look at your iterations of Socom Zipper, and realize that we really do prefer fast movements over the slow, sluggish tactical approach that you seem to be putting more "care" into:

WE LIKE THIS

SOCOM 2 EXAMPLE VIDEO

WE DON'T WANT THIS

SOCOM 4 EXAMPLE VIDEO

-Reloading

No complaints here, reload looks to be nice and speedy, which is a GOOD thing!

-Sprint

*Sigh*, well, looks like it's back and that's not good. Ultimately, the whole commnunity wants it gone. This is all i'm going to say on the matter, please consider taking this out ( and speeding up character movements in the non-sprint mode!)

-Firing

We're hoping that recoil animation was just a pre-alpa "thing", because the "slow-motion-like" firing in the "Zoom" with sloppy recoil just really scares us. To be honest, it seems like a single player only type fire-mode, so hopefully, again, this won't be in the final version, or multiplayer for that matter.

-Motion Controller

This has been confirmed optional, so no complaints here, as most of your hardcore fans here will use the Dualshock ( no offense )

SUMMARY

Alright Zipper, this is how we feel, we're being brutally honest, and we're not trying to put you down as a company, we're simply giving you feedback and we're sure you understand this.

What made Socom so great was it's unique style of gameplay that captivated us. Now, it seems like your drifting further and further away from that  forumula and applying all the elements that have made other "shooter" games popluar in the recent years, and it's simply tearing the series apart and only brings it to a less unique feel, a normal generic shooter.

We are your loyal fans, who have given you 100% support, and it seems that the further down the road we go, the further Zipper pushes away from us, and Casual gamers, who are looking for a cool game to play, are the ones your aiding "MORE" to.

We know you want to expand the series to new people, but why take away elements that your loyal fans love from the series. Those casual gamers are going to play the game until the next good shooter comes out, while we wait, and wait,and wait for Zipper to give us what we've been wanting for so long, a great Socom game that implements a core feel, while still evolving a bit to please casuals, not evolve MORE to the casuals.


FACEBOOK SUPPORT PAGE

DON'T LET SOCOM DIE ( A PLEA FOR SOCOM 4 )

To show our support for the ideas accumlated in this thread we have created a facebook page.

Become a fan if you want to help us!


SOCOMISM > REALISM

A large factor that played a role in earlier Socom's was it's ability to balance a sense of realism, to make the game feel authentic, like a true Navy Seal experience, but at the same time have lot's of unrealistic elements that gave the game a "Fun" factor. This fun factor that was inserted into Socom is something we like to call "SOCOMISM", elements of Socom that made Socom, well, Socom.

Let's explore this topic further with examples to show exactly what point we're making:

-Character Speed/Movement

In earlier Socom's we had character who had the ability ( WITHOUT A SPRINT BUTTON <<<) to move at a highly fast past, while his/her weapon was in a shooting manner. We could dive down with ease, pop up or get up at a quick pace, and shoot our weapons will doing most of these actions.

Now, Socom Confrontation and from what we've seen of SOCOM 4, have brought more of a "realistic" feel to these actions, with a MAJOR reduction in run speed. We must now gain speed by pressing a SPRINT button, unable to shoot our weapon while sprinting. We don't know much about the dive prone and stand-up quickness for SOCOM 4 yet, but, in Confrontation it was slow and sluggy. These realistic addtions really alter the gameplay for much a less enjoyable experience for a SOCOMer. More emphasis is now being put on REALISM, than actual SOCOMISM ( The fun factor ).

-Encumbrance

This one's pretty simple. Socom 1 and 2 didn't have encumbrance, just a good ol' simple set-up we loved. But, Socom 3 introduced encumbrance, Socom Confrontation tried it, and neither have really nailed it and is just a hassle to think about. Realism was trying to be added, and honestly took away from the game. Keep it simple and use what worked.

-The Cover System

Again, older SOCOMs did not have this feature, no other SOCOM for that matter (obviously). We understand Zipper is trying to appeal to a larger audience, but this factor is just another addition of REALISM that's going to make the game less like SOCOM and more like a casual gamer's "REAL LIFE" shooter. This almost convinces all loyal fans that Sony and Zipper care MORE for the casual gamer than to it's loyal fans, which is dissheartening, but we won't shut them out just yet, we havn't seen the full game nor have we played it.

This is one "Realistic" factor that hopefully is going to stay in the "single player" portion of the game only.

Summary

it's really simple, the more this game cater's to the casual gamer, the more it's going to cater realism. The outcome is a game that seems to leave behind it's loyal fans and the SOCOMISM that made this series.

SOCOMISM > REALISM


LONGJON'S VIDEO UPDATES (NEW APRIL 23rd)

I've stumbled across a fellow SOCOMER who without a doubt speaks from the heart and soul of a true knowledgeable user of the SOCOM series. Like this thread, his opinions are deep and worthy expressions and examples that I believe we need to take note of (And Zipper ). If there was a SOCOM sermon to attend, he'd be the pastor, so here he shall have his own dedicated section in this thread to give us testimonies of SOCOM that'll have you saying AMEM over and over again! Preach on brotha'.

4/23/2010

LongJon's Podcast Response ( NEW )

3/13/2010

LongJon Responds To Users On A Few Matters

3/12/2010

Video 1 ( LongJon's Thought's On SOCOM 4 )

Video 2 (LongJon's Thought's Continued)

Video 3 ( LongJon's Thought's FINAL )


SUPPORT VIDEO

DON'T LET SOCOM DIE!!


THREADS THAT WE LIKE:

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Why Socom 4 is not a Socom US Navy Seals game

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http://forums.socom.com/socom/board/message?board.id=socom4&thread.id=31038Classic 3rd Person/FPS Secondary ( Actual Animation GIFs)

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http://forums.socom.com/t5/SOCOM-4/Zipper-Please-add-classic-view/m-p/648642/highlight/false#M36468Jeremy, I'd Like To Hear Your Expertise On Something

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SOCOM 4 ( Background Gameplay )  In Move Commercial

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MOVE COMMERCIAL <<<

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Alright, just a few hours after it's release, speculations are already flying around the forums on the debate of the supposed "sped up" character speed in the background gameplay seen in Sony's new "Move" commercial with Kevin Butler ( which by the way is a P-I-M-P).

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At the 1:01-1:02 mark of the video we see the character throw a sideways grenade, which then he proceeds to pick up speed, starting near 1:03-1:04. In the next 2-3 seconds we see the character speed looking to us, "PERFECT", he's running nice and fast just like old SOCOMs, non of that sluggish, slow movement. Then he slows down and comes to a halt and starts "ripping-face" again.

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Anyways, the question is, was this true movement from the gameplay? or an enhanced "fast forward" to speed up the video in the editing process of the commercial?

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Honestly, there seems to be no logical reason why editors would speed up a random 2-3 seconds in a background gameplay portion of a commercial, but, who knows?

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Whatever it may be Zipper, that 2-3 seconds ( from roughly 1:03-1:06 ) is the IDEAL speed we've been asking for ever since you're brief departure, where Slant Six gave us "slug-bug" style movement.

That's a large reason for the series success ( Socom 1, 2, and 3's speed )

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True Navy Seal Vibe 

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Ever since since Confrontation was released, we've really lost the feeling and "vibe" of being apart of a "NAVY SEAL" experience, in our opinion. It seems developers get the idea that SOCOMers want more factions, not just seals and terrorist ( or mercenaries ), and it's obvious, with Confrontation releasing several factions alongside Seals.

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In fact, so many other factions were included, that the Navy Seal "feel" of the game was ultimately lost. Now, we've heard in an interview that more factions will be added to Socom 4, and this is worrisome, knowing that potentially that Navy Seal vibe could once again be lost.

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Here we have a video ( split into 2 parts ) that you guys, (Zipper), included in your very first SOCOM game. Keep in mind, this is the feeling that really gets our hearts pumping:

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SOCOM US NAVY SEALS Documentary Part 1

SOCOM US NAVY SEALS Documentary Part 2

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Remember guys, SOCOM "US NAVY SEALS"

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PUBLIC/PRIVATE BETA FEEDBACK

TO BE ANNOUNCED / DATED

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STAY TUNED FOR DAILY UPDATES!

GTA V FTW !

PSN : Stackcluster
Born young, not dead yet !
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Gaming Beast
Registered: 04/25/2010
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

thats the one stack =) you should also link stormalong's mod system thing to show sushi that we were open to finding a middle ground with the stuff they were adding

derrick,rose,nba,all,star,signature,sig,lol,nbamixeswk
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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

Stackcluster wrote:

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Hey everyone, quick question for you that I'm curious about.  Essentially, why SOCOM? 

and what are the real core elements in future games that would bring you back.

Thanks in advance guys for keeping it civil and constructive. 

-SP

There you go, I felt like this needed to be stated here, just to be sure:

http://community.us.playstation.com/thread/3483118

r_e_v wrote:

SOCOM 4

A Competitive Player's View

DON'T LET SOCOM DIE SUPPORT VIDEO

FACEBOOK SUPPORT PAGE!

This thread is a dedicated contribution to the ideas, opinions, and overall viewpoint of the "Competitive" Socom player, so let the truth be known on how we feel. We will be discussing different topics each day and this thread will be constantly updating.

Alright boys and girls, sit back, relax and get comfy, because it's time to reveal the key elements in making SOCOM 4 into the competitive natured game it's predecessor's once were, and has since then diminished.

Keep In Mind:

we understand that Socom 4 has been in production for almost 3 years now and we realize many of these ideas and points we want established into the game have a decent chance of not being implemented, but our point is to at least give a representation of what would be worthy additions/subtractions, and with hope perhaps a few ideas could change some opinions upstairs.

TOPIC OF THE DAY: LONGJON's Video Updates


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MOVEMENT & ANIMATION

One of the key concepts to accomplishing success in Socom 4, would be applying virtually what we have seen in the past from you guys: S1, S2, and S3 basic movements, while of course adding your own spice to the title, as it is 2010 and you (Zipper) have made it clear you are going to tinker in order to fit the need for the current generation.

The list below will show what the obvious wants are as far as movements and animations are concerned

-Reload Speed (make it snappy and quick, unlike confrontation)

-Strafing ( we want to feel loose and free, quick is the key here )

-Run Speed ( FAST, it's obvious we like speed, and Zipper has done that well in the past, so keep it fast!)

 

-Sprint ( keep it out, we'd rather run with our guns-a-blazing, the realism factor doesn't need to be present )

-Prone Dive ( we want the ability to dive down, stay down, or be able to pop back up quick, limitless, like in Socom 2)

-Prone Lean ( this should be enabled regardless how much realism your going for )

-Jump/Climb (boy is this implementation missed, we like to climb objects quickly, and objects that seem climbable too )

-Gun Switching ( Again with the free-feeling factor, fast, fast, fast, in a gunfight we want quick access to other weapons)

-Reload v2 (we'd like to do it fast as mentioned, but uninterrupted and also in mid-air, that limitation failed in S:CON)

-Firing Mid-Air ( Socom 3 was a little carried away, S:CON disabled it, and Socom 2 did it juuuuuust RIGHT!)

-Character ( make him ambidextrous as Zipper always has, it gives a much neater appearance and plays better as well)

-Lean ( make it useful, unlike Confrontation where you virtually had to put your whole body out to fire)

-Gun Hot ( make it like earlier iterations, not Confrontation's style )

-Speed Summary ( overall faster movements cause for more exciting gunfights, hence the addiction we know and love)

So, overall, essentially give us the formula of animation and movement's from your past games on the PS2, but selecting certain elements from each game and their the animations like the ones listed above.


LOBBIES

Ah yes, lobbies, the unique set-up lobbies bring to SOCOM gives us a community felt presence that no other game can resemble. This is one aspect of the game we are not worried about AT ALL when it comes to Zipper's many talents. They have proven to be "experts" if you will, in making superb Lobby Systems that flow and work flawlessly ( for the most part ). They have proven now in MAG that on the PS3 things will be just as soothing as before, with great transitions and quick menu pop-ups with virtually no load times.

So we know what Zipper can do, and we're asking that they replicate, to almost the same degree, a Socom 1, 2, or 3 lobby set-up. Any of these three or elements from each will give us what we're looking for and expecting in Socom 4. But for re-assurance, let's take a deeper dig into sub-elements of the Lobby breakdown.

-Fluid Menus (basically do what you guys have been doing in past Socoms, MAG shows us you can do it on the PS3)

-Text Chat (While Zipper always had text chat, Slant Six did not, keep text chat in the lobbies, we like it and it helps!)

-Single Map Rank Rooms ( hopefully Zipper will stay true to having rooms like "Desert Glory" Ranked i.e)

-Spectating (Socom 2 had the best set-up for this, use that formula and grow from there and we've got a winner)

-Message Boards (Socom 3 introduced this and was actually a great feature, would be nice if able to access them on the game)

-Friend Following (an in-game friends list with several options to choose and the addition to follow a friend - i.e MAG, Socom 3)

-Friend Location ( simply seeing where your friends are is a nice touch - let's not pull a Confrontation style view )

-UCCR ( aka User Created Ranked Rooms, glitchers are going to glitch regardless, so let's see this return )

-Community (Past Socom community features have been great, stick too them, creating clans and all of course )

Like we've touched on Zipper, you guys ROCK at making Lobbies, From all your past games we've seen great and innovative lobbies progress and we love it. Most of these ideas are in all Socom's that Zipper has created and more or less are reminders that we like your way and not Socom Confrontation's way.

Remember, lobbies are essentially a core part of the Socom experience, even if it does sound like a smaller, less important element, it just gives that sense of unity, that we're all out there holding tryouts, recruiting, fighting epic battles, and having some good times, here we see the community in front of us, so make us feel at home! ( maybe a sweet theme song too )


GAMEPLAY

This topic is without a doubt one of the most crucial keys to success, and for Socom is the MAIN attraction. Forget flashy graphics, Socom has never been about that ( not to say Socom 4 won't look very pretty ). When it comes down to it, gameplay is what sucked us all in, the "star" of the show, without it,  Socom would be another fish in the bucket (analogy fail <<).

What exactly is gameplay? Well, we see it as a combination of the "feel" and overall structure of the game, to put it simple. Some features that don't have a particular section we'll be including here.

 

Here we'll discuss our list of crucial factors in gameplay:

-First Person View ( all past Zipper Socom's implemented this as the secondary view, and that's how we like it, simple as that)

-Weapon Selecting ( for the love of mankind this is not GRAW, Socom 1 and 2 perfected weapon selection, don't go changing)

-11 Rounds ( We like this number, ALOT, and we like to earn our tiebreakers via battlefield, not by computer decision; s1,2,3)

-Movement ( see MOVEMENT AND ANIMATION section; movement is another valued "feel" we missed in Confrontation )

-Bomb Respawn ( why Slant Six decided to do this is a mystery, Zipper's non respawning bomb is definitely our preference )

-Bomb Pick Up ( pressing a button to perform an animated pick up just felt like betrayal, a simple walk-over always worked)

-Custom Taunts ( We miss these, badly, it's a small feature we absolutely LOVE, who doesn't like custom taunting? )

-Grenade Taunting ( Again, Zipper had these in all their games, Slant Six went bye bye with it. We want it back! Raheelah! )

-Grenades From Dead ( if a dead player has grenades on them, we should be able to pick them up, i.e Socom 2)

-Bullet Spray ( reduce the bullet spray, put in a system like Socom 1's accuracy set-up in virtually every aspect )

-Scoreboard ( Socom 1's between round scoreboard and Socom 2's in game scoreboard, we'd like to see total kills!)

-Side Switching ( Confrontation tried doing this at the halfway mark, and honestly, it's better off being 1 side per game )

There are many aspects we can associate with gameplay, so if some don't seem to the norm of what you define it's simply because we feel it'd be better here than in a smaller section/topic down the road.

While all of these elements are considered crucial, most of us are going to need to accept the fact that Zipper is going to change a few things, there's nothing we can do. It's 2010 and they want to open up new ideas, we know this. With that being said both new and old should be implemented to complement each other, giving us a fresh taste with the good ole Socom touch.


PERSPECTIVE VIEW

3rd Person

It's rare these days that you see a "true" 3rd person perspective like SOCOM gives us. Well, let me rephrase that, it's rare these days you see a true 3rd person perspective like SOCOM 1, 2, and 3. Yea, that's right, we were a little dissapointed to see the 3rd person view change a tad in Confrontation. The view seems to become "cluttered" at times and is a "closer-up" view in most circumstances.

We always enjoyed the further out "classic" third person view from Zipper's Socom games. Seeing more of your characters body was, I don't know how to put this, more soothing...a "turn-on" perphaps? Regardless, we'd like to see something more along the lines of our "original" TPS view.

Here we have the "classic" 3rd Person View from Socom 2:

Now here's Confrontations average 3rd person view:

Now, this isn't to say the Confrontation view was HORRIBLE, because it wasn't, BUT, for some reason the camera liked to stay closer up to the character rather than farther off.

Bottom line, Socom 1,2,3 "3rd person" view = YES

Confrontation = "3rd person" view = NO

First Person (Secondary)

Let's make this really simple, because we all know what we're going to say here.

Over the shoulder, a view we all wondered why was implemented in Confrontation as the secondary view. While on the other hand, the beloved first person view was completely rid of. again, WHY! The secondary first person view is absolutely superb.

OTS blocked a majority of the screen and gave for a very awkward viewpoint. Again, on the otherhand, first person secondary gave for a very CLEAR and highly visible view that could easily be toggled in and out of. Zipper again got it right in all their games, so keep it.

Optional

If the OTS view is going to be implemented, then a FPS view needs to be as well. Now, with both included, the option to choose which view will be your secondary needs to be included.

This means whichever secondary you choose, is going to be the only one your character can access. Pretty simple and effective for both crowds.

Overall, keep it original like the older Socoms and if you must, use the option suggestion we've come up with.


MAPS/ENVIRONMENTS

Alright now, this subject has been a large issue that has indeed diminished the value of overall experience to a much lesser degree than we once knew. Environments can make or break a Socom game, and we're going to touch on factors that do such a thing when it comes down to the big picture.

Factors and Keys to Success/Failure of Maps/Environments:

-One Mode Per Map

Socom 1 and 2 did it right. Each and every map was designed specifially for the mode assigned to it's formation and structure. Designers could focus purely on the outcomes/scenarios of the single purpose the map was going to give the audience. Socom 3 abandoned this tactic ( along with Confrontation), giving us less appealing environments, where designers essentially "forced" a mode to work on a map that was designed to attempt working for multiple modes, rather than structuring around the sole purpose of 1 mode. We like 1 map per mode, plain and simple.

-Water

Again, Socom 1 and 2 got it right ( hate to keep bringing up these 2 games but they give great examples ). We don't want to spend a full round searching for a guy swimming underwater in 6 miles of ocean water, it's just not fun. We will compromise with you, however. Water is perfectly fine, IF ( and that's a big IF ) you can keep it toned down to something similar to say "Blood Lake" styled water. Keep the largest depth of water "waist deep", and if you do decide or insist on deeper water, i'd be nice to keep that area to a small area.

-Vehicles

This has been a touchy subject for many, but, overall, they just don't work in Socom. The experience completely changes and ruins the effect of what Socom used to bring to the table. We understand some maps are going to be larger than others, but it's just a feature the community overall has rejected. We got around just fine in Foxhunt:smileyhappy:

-Destructible Environments

From the IGN write up, we know they're going to be destructible, however, we must question, to what extent? Heaven forbid this becomes Battlefield Bad Company, it'd be a sad day in the Socom universe. What we're hoping for is a few interactive spots in every map. Shoot a barrel here, explode a wooden crate there, similar to past Socom's. On the other hand, we understand it's 2010, so you're going to spice it up a bit, but there's a line to be drawn and hopefully it's not crossed. Also, don't take Slant Six's path and assume every map is a Terrorist mine field.

-Interactive Environtments

Zipper nailed this quite well in past Socoms, so here is a small list of examples of what they did and should continue doing:

-Doors = many doors were open and closable in all maps that contained them ( worked very well )

-Lights = lights could be flipped on in certain maps ( example : Enwopi Basement ) ( also shooting out lights )

-Objects = could be flipped on with a switch to be moved ( Chain Reaction- large metal plate could move along side the top)


-Breaching/Opening Breaches = ( Death Trap - all fence breaches could opened from the inside and C4'd from the outside)

                                            

-Airstrikes = could be called on certain maps (Enwopi, Sujo and Sandstorm were a few examples )

-Detonators= example - Crossroads ( Red Room Bridge and Bell Tower Bridge )


-Design

What makes a great Socom map? Ask your level designers from Socom 1 and 2. Socom 3 had some creative ideas as well, but something just didn't click to the degree the "classic" maps did. Socom Confrontation on the other hand, destroyed Zipper's classics and proceeded to be very poor at creating a rememberable and original experience on their attempts.

Furthermore, we need maps that are going to "flow". Yes it does sound a bit simple, but basically that's what it comes down to. a design that can create several paths to travel, while not over complicating anything.

Summary

Zipper, we know you're capable of giving us great environments and maps, we've seen it from you. While we worry of the issue, we must also remember these guys have been working on the game 3 years, and that can only mean more quality. Make us proud Zipper.


MUSIC/SOUNDTRACK

Zipper has chosen without a doubt the best way possible to handle their music in previous games. SOCOM is known for bringing a tear to your eye when hearing those memorable harmonies, sending chills down your spine and giving you a feeling you'll never experience in any other video game. The epic sensation that flows through your body when catching the pulsing, yet soothing, symphony is truly an undescribable feeling that we really can't explain, it's just that good! All they have to do is continue this same process and we'll have back a hell of a soundtrack.

So, how exactly did Zipper touch our inner souls time after time? Simple, seek out the best of the best, with expertise in the field. The following videos will show you exactly what we mean:

The Making of Socom's Muisic:

SOCOM 2- MAKING THE MUSIC

SOCOM 3- MAKING THE MUSIC

Zipper knew what they wanted, they set out a guideline, and they seeked out the best to give us something we'll never forget.

From what we've heard of Socom 4's theme music ( from the trailer ), it sounds as if they've done a GREAT job once again. I guess it's a sigh of releif after hearing a "Tribe Man" beat a drum for Confrontation's soundtrack.


WEAPONS/FIRING/AIMING/ETC

Finally, we arrive to the aspect of Socom that has changed up since the beginning of the series, sadly, for the worse, weapons. When we were first introduced to Socom 1, we had simple, balanced weapons, that were for the most part accurate. A bullet followed the exact path your crosshair lay upon, it was beautiful, almost like magic. Then along came Socom 2, the hit detection was seen as the "worst" of the series, it wasn't as perfect as Socom 1, nevertheless we enjoyed it very much. Then along came Socom 3 aka a casual gamer's paradise.

One thing we as a Socom community have always enjoyed about this game, was the constant struggle to become better. In Socom 1 and 2, you always felt as if your skill could improve, that your gun game could use work or practice. When Socom 3 hit, it was an obvious change, the learning curve had decreased down to that of the casual gamer, instead of staying true to the old "feel" of aiming and shooting your weapon.

The following are a mixture of issues having to do with multiple aspects of the weapon relm:

-Recoil ( Socom 3 and Confrontation really reduced recoil and therefore made the game easier, we think SOCOM should be skill)

-Crosshair Bounce ( somewhat related to recoil, but, Socom 1 and 2's crosshairs we're superb, the bounce needs to come back)

-Magnetic Headshots ( Zipper never had a problem with this, but don't make every other bullet a headshot (cough* slant 6) )

-Magnetic Bullets/Rails ( Again, Zipper never had a problem with this, but don't pull a Confrontation on us )

-Run/Shoot ( This is Socom, not real life, we'd like for the most part, to shoot somewhat accurate while running/strafing)

-Grenades ( Socom 1 got it perfect, hands down. from the throwing, to the meter, power, and amount of grenades allowed )

-Sniping ( This could go into deep deep detail, but to simplify = Take Socom 2's sniping system and upscale it for 2010 )

-Armor (Big NO NO. The playing field should be equal for everyone. If you include armor, make it for show and that's it )

-Perks ( This is not Call of Duty, while we understand the game needs to evolve in some ways, this should be left out )

-Knives ( Some hate them, Some love them, honestly we don't like them, but if you must include them, don't overpower them )

-Encumbrance ( Don't make this too realistic, that's all we ask, since we know it's going to be in the game )

-PMN Mines ( Regardless of how annoying these things can get, we miss them, Confrontation left them out, Zipper didn't )

-Gun Spray ( keep it to a minimum, we'd really like to see a Socom 1/2 syle system used here )

-Fire Rate ( We feel that with fire rate being reduced on most guns to simulate Socom 1 and 2's style, spray will reduce as well )

-Scopes ( Thermal scopes are fine, just don't overpower their power in terms of viewing distance, Socom 2 and 3 nailed it )

-Handguns ( All of Zipper's Socoms had great handguns and applied a good system to go along with it, keep it that way )

-Guns ( We like all of the classic weapons from past games, lots were missed in Confrontation! )

-Claymores ( Ideal in earlier iterations, but in Confrontation they rarely worked and detonator was a hassle to pull out )

-RPGS/M203s ( If you're going to include them, reduce their power and accuracy greatly from past games, no one likes um )

To sum everything up, weapons need BALANCE. Ensure the user that one side isn't overpowered with the better weapons, or even for that matter, that one weapon that's always going to be used due to it's ease to kill with. We'd like weapons to take skill to use, but at the same time are accurate when we've got our crosshairs on an enemies *******.

Gives us the goods Zipper...


GDC GAMEPLAY FEEDBACK

We understand the footage seen in the GDC videos are in the Pre-Alpha stages and also solely a demo from the Single Player, but, we'd like to strongly suggest and leave feedback from what we've seen gameplay wise. We'll be telling you guys what we liked, didn't like, and what we feel should not carry over into Multiplayer.

-First Person Secondary View

We've all made it clear we prefer the first person view for our secondary zoom over the OTS view. We see in the gameplay that sadly it's an OTS view. We're hoping this is solely a single player option and that we'll be able to use the beloved FPS secondary in the Multiplayer aspect ( or even optional for single player ).

Here is an example of why we find it more enjoyable and superior:

YES!

YES!

NO!

NO!

-3rd Person Perspective View

SOCOM 4

SOCOM 2

Again, here, we see the SOCOM 4 view being pushed up, closer to the body. It's more enjoyable being able to see the full body, not cut-off halfway. It'd be really nice to have this fixed, unless it was pushed up simply for the motion control demo. It's simply a turn-off, like mentioned earlier, to see our original 3rd person view "tortured".

-Cover System

We're not going to lie to you Zipper, just about every Loyal Socom Fan you've ever had just lost a lot of faith in this game. While we understand this is just single player, this cover system, if implemented in MP, could and more than likely will be the doom of Socom. It really seems like the core gameplay is becoming more "casual" and less like SOCOM. This element just seems to put us in a state where it's going to completely alter the feel we used to love from Socom 1, 2 and even 3. We're asking please not to implement this into MP.

-Visuals

For pre-alpha visuals are looking pretty good. We're not really worried about this aspect, as we know the graphics are going to be decent enough for us, because we're more for the actual gameplay!

-Movement Speed/Running

Like we've been preaching and preaching, and praying and praying, SPEED IT UP! Ever since Confrontation was released we've had to deal with slow/sluggish gameplay. With Zipper we are really hoping you guys can return to another element that made your Socom games so fun!

Take a look at your iterations of Socom Zipper, and realize that we really do prefer fast movements over the slow, sluggish tactical approach that you seem to be putting more "care" into:

WE LIKE THIS

SOCOM 2 EXAMPLE VIDEO

WE DON'T WANT THIS

SOCOM 4 EXAMPLE VIDEO

-Reloading

No complaints here, reload looks to be nice and speedy, which is a GOOD thing!

-Sprint

*Sigh*, well, looks like it's back and that's not good. Ultimately, the whole commnunity wants it gone. This is all i'm going to say on the matter, please consider taking this out ( and speeding up character movements in the non-sprint mode!)

-Firing

We're hoping that recoil animation was just a pre-alpa "thing", because the "slow-motion-like" firing in the "Zoom" with sloppy recoil just really scares us. To be honest, it seems like a single player only type fire-mode, so hopefully, again, this won't be in the final version, or multiplayer for that matter.

-Motion Controller

This has been confirmed optional, so no complaints here, as most of your hardcore fans here will use the Dualshock ( no offense )

SUMMARY

Alright Zipper, this is how we feel, we're being brutally honest, and we're not trying to put you down as a company, we're simply giving you feedback and we're sure you understand this.

What made Socom so great was it's unique style of gameplay that captivated us. Now, it seems like your drifting further and further away from that  forumula and applying all the elements that have made other "shooter" games popluar in the recent years, and it's simply tearing the series apart and only brings it to a less unique feel, a normal generic shooter.

We are your loyal fans, who have given you 100% support, and it seems that the further down the road we go, the further Zipper pushes away from us, and Casual gamers, who are looking for a cool game to play, are the ones your aiding "MORE" to.

We know you want to expand the series to new people, but why take away elements that your loyal fans love from the series. Those casual gamers are going to play the game until the next good shooter comes out, while we wait, and wait,and wait for Zipper to give us what we've been wanting for so long, a great Socom game that implements a core feel, while still evolving a bit to please casuals, not evolve MORE to the casuals.


FACEBOOK SUPPORT PAGE

DON'T LET SOCOM DIE ( A PLEA FOR SOCOM 4 )

To show our support for the ideas accumlated in this thread we have created a facebook page.

Become a fan if you want to help us!


SOCOMISM > REALISM

A large factor that played a role in earlier Socom's was it's ability to balance a sense of realism, to make the game feel authentic, like a true Navy Seal experience, but at the same time have lot's of unrealistic elements that gave the game a "Fun" factor. This fun factor that was inserted into Socom is something we like to call "SOCOMISM", elements of Socom that made Socom, well, Socom.

Let's explore this topic further with examples to show exactly what point we're making:

-Character Speed/Movement

In earlier Socom's we had character who had the ability ( WITHOUT A SPRINT BUTTON <<<) to move at a highly fast past, while his/her weapon was in a shooting manner. We could dive down with ease, pop up or get up at a quick pace, and shoot our weapons will doing most of these actions.

Now, Socom Confrontation and from what we've seen of SOCOM 4, have brought more of a "realistic" feel to these actions, with a MAJOR reduction in run speed. We must now gain speed by pressing a SPRINT button, unable to shoot our weapon while sprinting. We don't know much about the dive prone and stand-up quickness for SOCOM 4 yet, but, in Confrontation it was slow and sluggy. These realistic addtions really alter the gameplay for much a less enjoyable experience for a SOCOMer. More emphasis is now being put on REALISM, than actual SOCOMISM ( The fun factor ).

-Encumbrance

This one's pretty simple. Socom 1 and 2 didn't have encumbrance, just a good ol' simple set-up we loved. But, Socom 3 introduced encumbrance, Socom Confrontation tried it, and neither have really nailed it and is just a hassle to think about. Realism was trying to be added, and honestly took away from the game. Keep it simple and use what worked.

-The Cover System

Again, older SOCOMs did not have this feature, no other SOCOM for that matter (obviously). We understand Zipper is trying to appeal to a larger audience, but this factor is just another addition of REALISM that's going to make the game less like SOCOM and more like a casual gamer's "REAL LIFE" shooter. This almost convinces all loyal fans that Sony and Zipper care MORE for the casual gamer than to it's loyal fans, which is dissheartening, but we won't shut them out just yet, we havn't seen the full game nor have we played it.

This is one "Realistic" factor that hopefully is going to stay in the "single player" portion of the game only.

Summary

it's really simple, the more this game cater's to the casual gamer, the more it's going to cater realism. The outcome is a game that seems to leave behind it's loyal fans and the SOCOMISM that made this series.

SOCOMISM > REALISM


LONGJON'S VIDEO UPDATES (NEW APRIL 23rd)

I've stumbled across a fellow SOCOMER who without a doubt speaks from the heart and soul of a true knowledgeable user of the SOCOM series. Like this thread, his opinions are deep and worthy expressions and examples that I believe we need to take note of (And Zipper ). If there was a SOCOM sermon to attend, he'd be the pastor, so here he shall have his own dedicated section in this thread to give us testimonies of SOCOM that'll have you saying AMEM over and over again! Preach on brotha'.

4/23/2010

LongJon's Podcast Response ( NEW )

3/13/2010

LongJon Responds To Users On A Few Matters

3/12/2010

Video 1 ( LongJon's Thought's On SOCOM 4 )

Video 2 (LongJon's Thought's Continued)

Video 3 ( LongJon's Thought's FINAL )


SUPPORT VIDEO

DON'T LET SOCOM DIE!!


THREADS THAT WE LIKE:

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Why Socom 4 is not a Socom US Navy Seals game

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http://forums.socom.com/socom/board/message?board.id=socom4&thread.id=31038Classic 3rd Person/FPS Secondary ( Actual Animation GIFs)

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http://forums.socom.com/t5/SOCOM-4/Zipper-Please-add-classic-view/m-p/648642/highlight/false#M36468Jeremy, I'd Like To Hear Your Expertise On Something

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SOCOM 4 ( Background Gameplay )  In Move Commercial

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MOVE COMMERCIAL <<<

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Alright, just a few hours after it's release, speculations are already flying around the forums on the debate of the supposed "sped up" character speed in the background gameplay seen in Sony's new "Move" commercial with Kevin Butler ( which by the way is a P-I-M-P).

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At the 1:01-1:02 mark of the video we see the character throw a sideways grenade, which then he proceeds to pick up speed, starting near 1:03-1:04. In the next 2-3 seconds we see the character speed looking to us, "PERFECT", he's running nice and fast just like old SOCOMs, non of that sluggish, slow movement. Then he slows down and comes to a halt and starts "ripping-face" again.

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Anyways, the question is, was this true movement from the gameplay? or an enhanced "fast forward" to speed up the video in the editing process of the commercial?

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Honestly, there seems to be no logical reason why editors would speed up a random 2-3 seconds in a background gameplay portion of a commercial, but, who knows?

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Whatever it may be Zipper, that 2-3 seconds ( from roughly 1:03-1:06 ) is the IDEAL speed we've been asking for ever since you're brief departure, where Slant Six gave us "slug-bug" style movement.

That's a large reason for the series success ( Socom 1, 2, and 3's speed )

_________________________________________________________________________________________

True Navy Seal Vibe 

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Ever since since Confrontation was released, we've really lost the feeling and "vibe" of being apart of a "NAVY SEAL" experience, in our opinion. It seems developers get the idea that SOCOMers want more factions, not just seals and terrorist ( or mercenaries ), and it's obvious, with Confrontation releasing several factions alongside Seals.

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In fact, so many other factions were included, that the Navy Seal "feel" of the game was ultimately lost. Now, we've heard in an interview that more factions will be added to Socom 4, and this is worrisome, knowing that potentially that Navy Seal vibe could once again be lost.

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Here we have a video ( split into 2 parts ) that you guys, (Zipper), included in your very first SOCOM game. Keep in mind, this is the feeling that really gets our hearts pumping:

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SOCOM US NAVY SEALS Documentary Part 1

SOCOM US NAVY SEALS Documentary Part 2

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Remember guys, SOCOM "US NAVY SEALS"

_________________________________________________________________________________________

PUBLIC/PRIVATE BETA FEEDBACK

TO BE ANNOUNCED / DATED

_________________________________________________________________________________________

STAY TUNED FOR DAILY UPDATES!

What an excellent post. ZIPPER TAKE NOTE.

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Sackboy
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

Why Socom.....


*didn't want to register avs just to edit that part of the movie so sorry about the advertisement in the middle.

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Splicer
Registered: 10/06/2009
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

I'd say the clan community in socom ll did it for me. That and clutch gameplay (playing out numbered on the final round and winning). The maps were awesome- I could disappear and stealth kill like a seal.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 2, 2011

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Big_Fred18 wrote:

DEADEYEZ wrote:

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Thanks for the constructive feedback so far everyone, it's appreciated.  Keep'em coming. 

-SP

So whats going to come out of this thread? Are you going to pass this on to zipper or sony? Or is this just more writing on the walls of the forum to be ignored.

PSN:PRE_-CISION-_Thanks for killing SOCOM zipper

I am wondering the same thing.  Is this going to be for the next Socom,Remake of an old, or for a new game that we don't know? 

I'll be sending it over to Zipper along with a report on the community as well as up the food chain on my end.  I've already chatted about it with my manager and a few of my co-workers and shown them the community responses in both this thread and the one Luk (I'm also sending his) created.

One of the worst things that can happen from our point of view is for a fanatic/evangelist of a game to become disenfranchised, and if we can learn from that and get to the core of the issue, and what were the core items/things which caused it, then at very least progress can be made and a lesson learned.

-SP

BEST POST I'VE EVER SEEN A MOD MAKE.

Now let's see some action from Zipper/ Sony.

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I Only Post Everything
Registered: 11/26/2007
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 3, 2011

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Big_Fred18 wrote:

DEADEYEZ wrote:

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Thanks for the constructive feedback so far everyone, it's appreciated.  Keep'em coming. 

-SP

So whats going to come out of this thread? Are you going to pass this on to zipper or sony? Or is this just more writing on the walls of the forum to be ignored.

PSN:PRE_-CISION-_Thanks for killing SOCOM zipper

I am wondering the same thing.  Is this going to be for the next Socom,Remake of an old, or for a new game that we don't know? 

I'll be sending it over to Zipper along with a report on the community as well as up the food chain on my end.  I've already chatted about it with my manager and a few of my co-workers and shown them the community responses in both this thread and the one Luk (I'm also sending his) created.

One of the worst things that can happen from our point of view is for a fanatic/evangelist of a game to become disenfranchised, and if we can learn from that and get to the core of the issue, and what were the core items/things which caused it, then at very least progress can be made and a lesson learned.

-SP

All i can say is, WOW! I am finally impressed by a mod on these forums.

And in all honesty, it's not a remake that we really want, it is a SOCOM game that sticks to its roots, that we have been promised with the last two installments, which fell short. A new socom that embodies the essence of the classic socoms is what we really want.

Upon realizing zipper was making S4, almost all of us salivated. Upon seeing the first images and videos, almost all of us knew we were not getting what we expected to see. Upon the release of the beta, our fears were even more realized, and while a few of us defended it and tried to like it, that too soon went out the window. And I will go out on a limb and say that any dlc released, will flop. I will not buy it, nor do I even care about it. Hell I don't even expect the patch to do anything successful.

The sooner Sony realizes that their golden egg went they way of humpty dumpty, and no amount of kings men, horses, super glue or patches will put this version back on the wall the better. Just make it easy, remake/remaster all the old maps. Do an initial release of 20 maps or even all the S1/S2 maps, Then release the S3/CA maps 6 months to a year later. and then work on new ones to release every 6 months and make it all available through PS store, and the game will stay fresh and become a steady revenue generator for sony for years to come.

Installment 1 = $30.

Installment 2 = $30.

Map pack 1 = $15

Map pack 2 = $15

Map pack 3 = $15

Map pack 4 = $15

Thats up to 4 years worth of sales, which will equal an amount that will easily exceed what zipper made on spending 4 years to develop socom 4. Plus, its all done through the store which will reduce the cost of packaging an d shipping, and since the basic ideas are already there, design time will be greatly reduced which should make putting this out a less time consuming operation.

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PlayStation MVP
Registered: 04/22/2003
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7837 posts
 

Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 3, 2011

You have touched on the tangables for sure, but there are the intangables that take more to discribe.

Where to play???...the room name said it all.  The begining of like minded experience!

Wanting to play a game with your friends. You knew some would be online and you knew where to find them.

Looking for a war with your friends and being able to pick a fight, weather the other group were willing or not, open room = kills for the taking.  Taking over another clans room and beating them so bad they all leave...priceless

Making new friends...these bonds are not formed through a "game last played" with "random X" user, they are formed over time with repeated connections.  Reference finding friends and knowing where to find them.

"My House"  This is my house, you can come in and play. If you think you can take it from me you are free to try...bring some friends, you'll need them.

This is my house, I have the key and I'm locking the door.  Public room to private match...when it's good it tends to stay good.  Time to close the door.

I have done many wrongs, I can do no right.  I must shoot digital stuff. "going rouge"  It's not pretty but it was an option.

The #1 intangable.  Provide the tools and allow the community to play the game, don't try and "do it for us" or control it for any other nefarious purposes.  You just can't do it better than we did.  We didn't have a road map or a plan, we just did what came natural for us.  Make SOCOM HD and give it to us.  We will take care of the rest.


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