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Fender Bender
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Re: Dagger Interviews Leukoplast on Matchmaking

Aug 22, 2011

leukoplast wrote:

MYSTAIN wrote:

LB is not going to slow down the stat padding or even stop it. It is going to happen. As long as I can group up with my friends or join their game, there is going to be stat padding. A good example of stat padding is, when MAG was still in the last phase of their beta, they had a tournament for the most points in a week, wins. This dude had one buddy on his team and two or three buddies on the other team with low powered sniper riffles. They would shoot his buddy and he would heal him and that got him tons of points per game. The average player would do about 800 points per game. He would do 2000 to 3000 per game. If you did not know this, MAG has matchmaking only and they still stat pad.

Exactly, plus since SH will have perks/skills and real advantageous stuff for ranking up and getting points, people are going to be stat padding like there is no tomorrow.  People did it in WH and it was only for rank/points, just imagine how eager they are going to be to pad when they actually get something useful out of it.

As I mentioned in the interview, the best solution is to have a grief reporting system that actually works and active moderation who are on top of those reports.

I forgot about skills/perks. Now they have a good reason to stat pad now. When I catch them stat padding, I will be reporting them too. I really wish LB would not do skills/perks and have server list. That would make me happy.

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Sackboy
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Re: Dagger Interviews Leukoplast on Matchmaking

Aug 23, 2011

leukoplast wrote:

Sharp_Dagger wrote:

I agree bate 100%.  When you talk to those who say host kicking is not important, often you find out that they have never hosted.  LOL  They don't realize all the things that a good host protects you from.

I have to admit this is the category I fell into, as at the time I did not have the netspeed to host matches.  But after reading the replies in this thread and at SHR, the positives of host kicking abilities sounds like it is extremely important, and the points people made towards keeping host-kick abilities I definitely agree with. 

With that said I am back, the past week I had been on vacation in Seattle, so that is why my comments here (especially relating to this SHR interview) have been absent.  But I am back and am looking forward to getting into SH again and keeping up with the latest news on the game.

BTW, great looking article Sharp!  I like the mixture of pictures in there, and I feel the whole interview went over very well.  I was reading the replies to the interview at SHR and noticed some people mention that when DJ says "unofficial" for server lists they were assuming that PR would fall into this category.  While this may be the case, the fact that LB is trying to lower the stat-padders/cheaters with MM on official ranked, probably means they wouldn't have server lists for unofficial ranked because people could just as easily stat-pad on those.   It wouldn't make any sense to adhere MM on official ranked for purposes of stat-padding prevention when people could simply move over to unofficial ranked server lists to do their stat padding.

LB makes MM out to be if the 'protection' in place for ranked games to prevent stat-padders, so it stands to reason they wouldn't have MM on official and server lists for PR, unless they were intending for PR to be some kind of really big loop-hole to the stat-padding prevention of MM on official servers.

EDIT: Oh and that is VERY interesting about BF3 having server lists for ranked games, I am utterly blown away with that announcement. Who would have known that a third-party game would actually choose server lists over matchmaking.  BF3 just jumped WAY up on my games to buy list.   I just hope there is no pay-to-play going on with BF3 (there probably is, sadly).

Nice post Leuk.  You are coming back from Seattle just when Starhawk is going!  LOL  You should have planned your trip one week later and bought Tix for PAX.  LOL

Yeah.  Host kick is important.

Below (blue) are examples...feel free to skip.  LOL

If you read my "Sony Servers are not for everyone" article, you can get some idea why.  I may do a separate article in the future about host kick vs vote to kick vs friendly fire off in the future.  I remember when I was a noob host.  i was missing so much.  As I got better, my servers were better.  The noob host is often afraid to kick...fall for things like "my stats go erased for no reason" or "I'm good because I spend a lot of time playing unranked"  "Are you calling me a liar" .  He/She ignores pings,  He/She is slow to notice team switching to the good side or clans that won't kill each other (no kill pacts).  The vet sees all of this quickly and can give a warning with confidence and if they don't follow?...BYE.  No guilty text.  LOL The vet also sets a culture for the server.  Like my server has a lot of teamwork but we also joke around and talk a lot ...play hard but relaxed.  I've been to a buddies server where all talk is restricted to game talk.  It's fun (more restrictive than mine) and I respect the rules while in there ...just as the other guys do...when in ROME.  I've also see the other servers where it is basically fights.

I have my own culture rules ...for example, as bate and I were discussing, the felas know when they become undermanned (usually brief...especially when my server was popular...people would be checking continuously to get in) I am not switching and I am not making others lose their bonus or enjoy the good team bond we developed to switch for the last 10 minutes.  What we do is we keep playing the objective...they to end the game in as painless a way as possible...LOL  (min 10 min-for bonus) , avoid baseraping just for KDR, etc. 

Another example is while many hosts brag that they don't allow baseraping, I DO.  I discourage it...especially when they are not trying for the flag.  I may tease the guys at intermission how they had full control of the air but they could only get one flag or that was weak for them not to try.  I'll tease guilt them but I don't get bold in their face and tell them they can't do it or threaten them like I have seen other hosts do.  So basically, in my server baseraping is allowed but not encouraged.  I even say.."Don;'t let them get all the bases or well get baseraped".  To me it is part of the game.  I only really get upset with them when they won't try to pick up the flag.  If they baserape, tank rape, whatever but keep grabbing the flag, more power to them,  LOL

Cursing is allowed on my server.  Some times we'll get a young kid (like 10) and you can tell he is not used to cursing and I ask the guys to try to watch their words while he's on their team and they happily comply.  I've kicked people for repeated racism after they have received warnings.  The fix up, apologize and ask to come back.

I have friends who think my server is too clean.  I have other friends who thing there is too much talking going on and it is too relaxed.  I have other friends who think we are too serious and they don't want to actually try to win.  The best is that with choice, you don't have to deal with complainers.  The people that like it come and stay.  Those who don't go find one that is to their liking.

In MAG...there was never a single time when I asked people to kick the person team killing me that they complied.  Some hear the two of you arguing and they just want to stay neutral and stay out of it.  The "group" is not as smart and honorable as one would imagine.  Some travel in packs.  I remember sometimes they would say right at the beginning "Sharp Dagger, hand over leadership or be kicked"  Then if you refused, you would get kicked.  I've seen some try to kick people to get their friend in or because they are annoyed that they think certain players are not doing enough for the team.  I'd rather put the power in the hands of one person and trust that one person to be honorable.  Once I know he/she is, I don't have to worry about the integrity of the rest of the guys.

Leuk...I'm not sure where you get LB saying the MM was the cure to stat padding.  They could just be advertising this "IN ADDITION".  You could be right though because HSJ did a poll on FB today and he phrased it as if he wanted us to pick no stats for player Created servers.  But STILL the overwhelming majority (83-18 last i checked) said they want stats with player created servers.

In addition your comment about BF3.  I believe the ranked server list will be in addition to matchmaking...so both will be available.  Kudos to them for being the first to commit.  That article I wrote was a huge hit on our site.  The BF3 fans are amazing.  BF3 will let one build a community.

Cool Site: http://starhawkradio.com/blogs/
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Re: Dagger Interviews Leukoplast on Matchmaking

Aug 23, 2011

batenswytch wrote:

Sharp_Dagger wrote:

Yeah...I agree bit.  Losers quit too much.  I want the guys to have fun but I don't want them to take away my fun and bonus points.  To me it is fair because I never complain at intermission that people should have switched to my side.

I always thought it was funny when new visitors would claim they loss because they were undermanned and I would say "No you were undermanned because you were losing".  It is clear the winning came first THEN people on the losing side quit.  Some people think it erases their stats.  Some don't know the server is on random.  SH needs to come up with a way to prevent quitters. Quitting wasn't a problem in COD, MAG etc.  The reason is:

1. The losing team gets a bonus too (just less)...so people want to wait around for that 

2. You lose all XP for the match if you quit early.

3. They make it clear that your stats till count (so you can't scrub poor stats by quitting)

4. They give you an "Are you sure" pop up explaining these things so people can make an informed decision.

If SH does these things, quitting and being forced to balance teams will be a thing of the past. 

I should bring this up on FB.

Sorry for going off topic a bit.

Very good points.  I haven't ran ranked the past few days - inevitably my husband wants to play too when I settle in to set up a server, so I have to go Unranked - but I have been reevaluating my stand on switching.  Will probably still switch in unranked, but no longer in ranked. 

And on my own tangent (feel free to skip), something I've started noticing when the other team is getting beaten badly, but they have equal numbers, or only down by one or two, is that they all usually have a lot of mid-high to high rank players, which would suggest a fair amount of experience, and thus they should be able to hold their own.

I have my own thoughts about that and the causes of the other team just not seeming to be able to get it together, but ultimately, I'm starting to get to the Too Bad, So Sad stage when it comes to sympathy in ranked servers.

Now back to your regular programming.


StarhawkCenter.net  By serious Warhawkers, for serious Warhawkers.

Great post bate,

I agree.  The thing the guys know is my server is on random so after a slaughter I remind them fresh team coming up.  I seeit this way:

-sometimes I get screwed with the bad team

-sometimes the teams are balanced

-sometimes I get the good team

If every time I get the good team I have to swtich then I'm going to have no fun.  I also don't like that feeling of breaking that bond.  Since my server is on random, you only get to guarantee that bond for 20 or 30 minutes...but it is guaranteed.  You are not going to be having fun, doing virtual hig fives, saying nice teamwork...then half way into it because you are doing too well the chemistry iis all changed.  No thanks.  Stay, collect your bonus.  If it is that much of a crush then maybe the game will only take 10 minutes.  The ONLY time I switvch is if I don't recognize any names on the other side and I see them dropping off one by one.  LOL  Then I switch to avoid pregame. 

Ranked is just the way to go.  Until I have reached the highes point, I will feel guilty playing unranked.,  The 2 things I like unranked for  are:

  1. Split screen-but now we won't have to worry.
  2. DM-This way I don't feel guilty and I can die as much as I want.  I'm not obsessed with KDR but ranked DM sometimes is not to my liking (depends on how beastly the players are).
Cool Site: http://starhawkradio.com/blogs/
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Re: Dagger Interviews Leukoplast on Matchmaking

Aug 23, 2011

MYSTAIN wrote:

I think I would not mind if matchmaking would have some choices. Like if I could just play with my friends in my region. You can have 2 choices world wide, were everyone gets matched up or regional , were I can play with only people in my region and lock it out so only people in the region can play.

But, that is not going to happen. You have a friends list that anyone in the world can be on it and it would not be fair to them to not be able to play with their friends because it is region locked. That is why I want server list. I like the choice of playing in my region and not having to worry that someone else has the lag advantage over my team, and your friends can join in at any time there is room.

LB is not going to slow down the stat padding or even stop it. It is going to happen. As long as I can group up with my friends or join their game, there is going to be stat padding. A good example of stat padding is, when MAG was still in the last phase of their beta, they had a tournament for the most points in a week, wins. This dude had one buddy on his team and two or three buddies on the other team with low powered sniper riffles. They would shoot his buddy and he would heal him and that got him tons of points per game. The average player would do about 800 points per game. He would do 2000 to 3000 per game. If you did not know this, MAG has matchmaking only and they still stat pad.

I really do not want Starhawk to punish the good players that do not stat pad, just to try to stop the bad ones. I really, really hope the are server list in Starhawk. I do not want to see them fail too. I know I am not going to buy another game with matchmaking only. So I hope you realize it and hope you do put both in it for all game modes.

PS. I do not like EA games and BF3 does not interest me at all. I do not care that BF3 has server list or not.

I can't even fake threat like I won't buy it.   I'll wait and see.  Most likely without PR, I would be bored after 2 months.  I would probably hold on to my copy to see if they would offer it in the future.  If not...I would just play it less.  There are a lot of good games coming out in the next year.  I'll find my new fun team game.  I won't stay loyal just for name.  I loved the original Legend of Zelda but I hated "The Adventures of Link".  Sometimes they mess up.  If they botch this, I gurantee when Starhawk 2 comes out, it will have PR servers.  They'll say something like returning back to the original spirit of what made Warhawk great." 

Cool Site: http://starhawkradio.com/blogs/
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Re: Dagger Interviews Leukoplast on Matchmaking

Aug 23, 2011

leukoplast wrote:

MYSTAIN wrote:

LB is not going to slow down the stat padding or even stop it. It is going to happen. As long as I can group up with my friends or join their game, there is going to be stat padding. A good example of stat padding is, when MAG was still in the last phase of their beta, they had a tournament for the most points in a week, wins. This dude had one buddy on his team and two or three buddies on the other team with low powered sniper riffles. They would shoot his buddy and he would heal him and that got him tons of points per game. The average player would do about 800 points per game. He would do 2000 to 3000 per game. If you did not know this, MAG has matchmaking only and they still stat pad.

Exactly, plus since SH will have perks/skills and real advantageous stuff for ranking up and getting points, people are going to be stat padding like there is no tomorrow.  People did it in WH and it was only for rank/points, just imagine how eager they are going to be to pad when they actually get something useful out of it.

As I mentioned in the interview, the best solution is to have a grief reporting system that actually works and active moderation who are on top of those reports.

The best thing to do is to have the Obs cam arbiters AND undercover members of the community that LB can trust who keep an eye out.  LOL  Starhawk-5-0

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Re: Dagger Interviews Leukoplast on Matchmaking

Aug 23, 2011

Sharp_Dagger wrote:

Nice post Leuk.  You are coming back from Seattle just when Starhawk is going!  LOL  You should have planned your trip one week later and bought Tix for PAX.  LOL

Leuk...I'm not sure where you get LB saying the MM was the cure to stat padding.  They could just be advertising this "IN ADDITION".  You could be right though because HSJ did a poll on FB today and he phrased it as if he wanted us to pick no stats for player Created servers.  But STILL the overwhelming majority (83-18 last i checked) said they want stats with player created servers.

Yeah it seems I have just missed them, but last I heard PAX was already sold out weeks ago (before I left).

As for LB saying MM is the cure to stat padding, they mention this in the same PS blog entry that we have been linking to.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/05/23/your-starhawk-questions-answered/

"In Starhawk you have both. Matchmaking is good for casual players that just want to be put into a game quickly, or for when we need to enforce that players are not “cheating” or stat padding or whatever you want to call it. It lets the Starhawk servers control which players get put into which games. That said, our fans LOVE it so we let you browse the custom “non-official” games through a server list. This gives you the best of both worlds."

This is their way of saying MM is the way to stop stat padding.  I believe they have mentioned it again a few more times since this entry.  Plus from what I remember, this was also the same reason GG gave when they implemented MM on KZ3, so I know what it means when a developer says this.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Dagger Interviews Leukoplast on Matchmaking

Aug 24, 2011

Sharp_Dagger wrote:

MYSTAIN wrote:

I think I would not mind if matchmaking would have some choices. Like if I could just play with my friends in my region. You can have 2 choices world wide, were everyone gets matched up or regional , were I can play with only people in my region and lock it out so only people in the region can play.

But, that is not going to happen. You have a friends list that anyone in the world can be on it and it would not be fair to them to not be able to play with their friends because it is region locked. That is why I want server list. I like the choice of playing in my region and not having to worry that someone else has the lag advantage over my team, and your friends can join in at any time there is room.

LB is not going to slow down the stat padding or even stop it. It is going to happen. As long as I can group up with my friends or join their game, there is going to be stat padding. A good example of stat padding is, when MAG was still in the last phase of their beta, they had a tournament for the most points in a week, wins. This dude had one buddy on his team and two or three buddies on the other team with low powered sniper riffles. They would shoot his buddy and he would heal him and that got him tons of points per game. The average player would do about 800 points per game. He would do 2000 to 3000 per game. If you did not know this, MAG has matchmaking only and they still stat pad.

I really do not want Starhawk to punish the good players that do not stat pad, just to try to stop the bad ones. I really, really hope the are server list in Starhawk. I do not want to see them fail too. I know I am not going to buy another game with matchmaking only. So I hope you realize it and hope you do put both in it for all game modes.

PS. I do not like EA games and BF3 does not interest me at all. I do not care that BF3 has server list or not.

I can't even fake threat like I won't buy it.   I'll wait and see.  Most likely without PR, I would be bored after 2 months.  I would probably hold on to my copy to see if they would offer it in the future.  If not...I would just play it less.  There are a lot of good games coming out in the next year.  I'll find my new fun team game.  I won't stay loyal just for name.  I loved the original Legend of Zelda but I hated "The Adventures of Link".  Sometimes they mess up.  If they botch this, I gurantee when Starhawk 2 comes out, it will have PR servers.  They'll say something like returning back to the original spirit of what made Warhawk great." 

I am waiting for the beta to see how the tournament side of it is. We know that matchmaking is the only way to get in a rank game right now. I am hoping that changes. But, I can tell you that if there was no tournament, I would not even bother with even coming here. As you can tell, I do not like matchmaking at all, in any game.

I have to justify spending $65 on Starhawk. It is a lot of money to play the game part time or one section of the game. I really want to love this game like I love Warhawk. Especially, since Dust514 is coming out about the same time as Starhawk. I will have a online shooter to play one way or another.

Another thing is too. I will not buy Starhawk and hope it gets fixed and if it does not get fixed, I will wait for Starhawk 2 or whatever they call it.

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Re: Dagger Interviews Leukoplast on Matchmaking

Aug 24, 2011

batenswytch wrote:

I would like to add:

In defense of PR Servers - right now many of the officials are either intolerably laggy, or not even recording stats.  By being able to set up a PR Server, we can at least play ranked that way.

In defense of kicking:  Yes, stripping the ability to kick or ban is like taking a gun away from a cop.  Kicking for pwnage is wrong, yes it gets abused, yet for those of us wanting to host a legitmate server - kicking for going under the map, abusive language, targeting and other douchery is a necessity, and in these instances its necessary to be able to kick  without having to get 'votes', before major damage is done and you start to lose legitimate players.


Can't tell you how frustrating it is to play in the official servers and some ***** is under the AA map, hosing people down with WH MG fire... and there's no. way. to get rid of him and there's no host to message.


StarhawkCenter.net  By serious Warhawkers, for serious Warhawkers.

as a 1200 hour warhawk server hosting general I 100% agree with and support the opinions in this post!

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