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Aug 22 2011
By: jason_ac Gaming Beast 2277 posts
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No video in SH, how about logging game commands?

14 replies 17 views Edited Aug 22, 2011

Lightbox says SH won't be doing video recording due to memory constraints (RAM).

Ok, a single frame of HD video with some audio data is a chunk of data to buffer in RAM & write 30-60 times/sec., so how about this...

Log all the controller input (from the player) and all relevent 'Net traffic input, so later, the player can choose to re-run the game engine against that small recorded log file, re-create the game, and have it then generate a video file?  Maybe a slow-motion "God" view mode, etc.

Those commands are a tiny amount of data, and they're already RAM-resident, so....  Those 2 sources of commands are all the data the game needs to render your view, either in real-time at play time, or later.

These log files might be on the player's HD, or maybe the data is streamed to a central dedicated recording server and that's where the log files are written to/retrieved from.

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Sackboy
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Re: No video in SH, how about logging game commands?

Aug 18, 2011

I nebver bothered to think about what you wronte until now.  These would be my thoughts:

-are all the server settings saved?

-where is the input from all (potentially 32) players stored?

-what about lag? -that could throw things off as it may not be exactly reproducible.

These are just some thoughts from a non-programmer perspective.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: No video in SH, how about logging game commands?

Aug 19, 2011

Writing data to the hard drive takes about 5MB of RAM. Considering developers only have about 200MB to start with, this is a fairly large chunk. That being said, it think it would be at possible to implement. But I don't see it happening.



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Gaming Beast
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Re: No video in SH, how about logging game commands?

Aug 19, 2011

Sharp_Dagger wrote:

-are all the server settings saved?

-where is the input from all (potentially 32) players stored?

-what about lag? -that could throw things off as it may not be exactly reproducible.

Server settings they could record at the start.  Input...well, it's streaming-in, to the main server host, and to each player. They'd have to write it to a log file on the hard disk. Lag...to account for that, the real solution would probably involve having only the main server save the data. I didn't want to make my suggestion too complicated, just wanted to get their wheels turning with the idea. In actuality, the server would probably have to record it all, and you'd have to have an interface (web or in-game) where you looked-up your game and could reference the command recordings you needed.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: No video in SH, how about logging game commands?

Aug 19, 2011

Sonic42 wrote:

Writing data to the hard drive takes about 5MB of RAM. Considering developers only have about 200MB to start with, this is a fairly large chunk. That being said, it think it would be at possible to implement. But I don't see it happening.


5 of 200 would be a lot. Where do you get your numbers from? And are you sure that 5 comes out of the RAM they're allowed to play with, as opposed to being memory that's already reserved for the use of the O.S. alone?

Maybe the Sony servers could be hacked PS3s with extra RAM so they could spare it?

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: No video in SH, how about logging game commands?

Aug 19, 2011

jason_ac wrote:

Sonic42 wrote:

Writing data to the hard drive takes about 5MB of RAM. Considering developers only have about 200MB to start with, this is a fairly large chunk. That being said, it think it would be at possible to implement. But I don't see it happening.


5 of 200 would be a lot. Where do you get your numbers from? And are you sure that 5 comes out of the RAM they're allowed to play with, as opposed to being memory that's already reserved for the use of the O.S. alone?

Maybe the Sony servers could be hacked PS3s with extra RAM so they could spare it?

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Is Warhawk out of date? No, it's the HawkJunkie's training ground for Starhawk! Pwn Starhawk newbies from day 1! :smileywink:

That number comes from the PS3 SDK, but it's an older number, and probably approximated. Game memory and system memory never cross; the XMB gets 40 MB and games get the rest.



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Sackboy
Registered: 09/22/2009
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Re: No video in SH, how about logging game commands?

Aug 19, 2011

jason_ac wrote:

Sharp_Dagger wrote:

-are all the server settings saved?

-where is the input from all (potentially 32) players stored?

-what about lag? -that could throw things off as it may not be exactly reproducible.

Server settings they could record at the start.  Input...well, it's streaming-in, to the main server host, and to each player. They'd have to write it to a log file on the hard disk. Lag...to account for that, the real solution would probably involve having only the main server save the data. I didn't want to make my suggestion too complicated, just wanted to get their wheels turning with the idea. In actuality, the server would probably have to record it all, and you'd have to have an interface (web or in-game) where you looked-up your game and could reference the command recordings you needed.

______________________________________________________

For Warhawk documentation & gameplay tips visit the Warhawk Wiki

Is Warhawk out of date? No, it's the HawkJunkie's training ground for Starhawk! Pwn Starhawk newbies from day 1! :smileywink:

Yeah Jason.  I was thinking the same thing that it would have to be recorded as recived inputs to only one server...the host.  This way all the timeing of how the signals are finaly implimented could be accounded for (lag).

Cheers

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Sackboy
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Re: No video in SH, how about logging game commands?

Aug 19, 2011

Sonic42 wrote:

jason_ac wrote:

Sonic42 wrote:

Writing data to the hard drive takes about 5MB of RAM. Considering developers only have about 200MB to start with, this is a fairly large chunk. That being said, it think it would be at possible to implement. But I don't see it happening.


5 of 200 would be a lot. Where do you get your numbers from? And are you sure that 5 comes out of the RAM they're allowed to play with, as opposed to being memory that's already reserved for the use of the O.S. alone?

Maybe the Sony servers could be hacked PS3s with extra RAM so they could spare it?

______________________________________________________

For Warhawk documentation & gameplay tips visit the Warhawk Wiki

Is Warhawk out of date? No, it's the HawkJunkie's training ground for Starhawk! Pwn Starhawk newbies from day 1! :smileywink:

That number comes from the PS3 SDK, but it's an older number, and probably approximated. Game memory and system memory never cross; the XMB gets 40 MB and games get the rest.


Thanks you two for talking over my head.  LOL

Cool Site: http://starhawkradio.com/blogs/
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: No video in SH, how about logging game commands?

Aug 19, 2011

The only way I can come up with to record a game match without taking much space.

During a match the game records the players movements(since input takes less space than video and sound, right?), at the end of the match the game will ask the player to save the match if "YES" is selected the game saves the input data along with the map and the players(name, customizations ect.).

When the player chooses to replay the match the game starts an offline match selects the map, fills it with the appropriate amount of bot(along with names and customizations), then the game places the recorded player inputs to the right bots and starts the match. There the player can view the match in a 3D false-recording.

Well that's what I think will take much less space then trying to record in HD in a 3D recording.

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Sackboy
Registered: 09/22/2009
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Re: No video in SH, how about logging game commands?

Aug 19, 2011

TrekieII wrote:

The only way I can come up with to record a game match without taking much space.

During a match the game records the players movements(since input takes less space than video and sound, right?), at the end of the match the game will ask the player to save the match if "YES" is selected the game saves the input data along with the map and the players(name, customizations ect.).

When the player chooses to replay the match the game starts an offline match selects the map, fills it with the appropriate amount of bot(along with names and customizations), then the game places the recorded player inputs to the right bots and starts the match. There the player can view the match in a 3D false-recording.

Well that's what I think will take much less space then trying to record in HD in a 3D recording.

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Oh...you just found another issue with Jason's plan...player customizations.  All these would need to be recorded too in some signal sent to the server.

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