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First Son
Registered: 03/24/2013
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Re: Let's talk Listen Mode

Mar 24, 2013

Yes but how good this game looks to me just went down a lot. I'm still buying it but I hate implimentations like this in tactical games that take thinking and planning. Makes it way to easy and I don't want a survval/horror type game made easy because I can all ways look at where people are through walls.  To me this sounds like we made the game hard so lets add in X-ray vision because that's exactly what it is to make it easier for players.

 

All I'm hoping is I can unmap it off my controller turn it off all together. Because when somethign like this on all the time on my controller I tend to use it in sticky situations and I don't want that. I want to not be able to use it at all to make it harder for myself forcing me to think off different and better ways of playing.  I just want to be able to turn it off and not have this forced.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Let's talk Listen Mode

[ Edited ]
Mar 24, 2013

Lt_K4RL0S wrote:

What I'd prefer (to keep the realism aspect in) Would for there to only be glowing footsteps or what they have alread done, a rippling effect of sound waves, rather than a perfect outline of what is behind the wall. If you ask me it'd be better without the outline, therefore I'd only know what I'm up against if I payed attention to the sounds they make or I actually looked at them from a distance. Having a "rough" idea of their location would make it somewhat scarier too.

 

Maybe this could e determined by difficulty?

 


The glowing footsteps idea is kind of strange since he's listening and doesn't have an high-tech eyepatch like Snake,I wouldn't mind the ripple sound wave actually though,that's pretty neato and if the AIs really are smart they would use that advantage against you therefore making the game harder. Joel shouldn't be the only one allowed to throw bottles or bricks to trick people/infected.

 

On the other hand I plan on playing the game on the hardest difficulty possible Smiley Happy so I'll probably be using this feature a lot and don't care what people say,haters gonna hate.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Let's talk Listen Mode

Mar 24, 2013

Personally, I don't like it at all. I think it's completely out of the ordinary to have it in a game like this. It removes SO much tension it's not even funny. I was watching the demo, and I had no idea there was an enemy beside the guy right down the hallway until he activated listen mode. Well, without listen mode, I would have been stupid to make that mistake of not noticing the enemy, and I would have gone tense after I noticed he was there. Listen mode just basically said..."hey, he's right there you moron." It made me feel both stupid AND cheap. It did not add any tactical value. 

 

Plus, I don't think a game like this should require tactics. I think it should require improvsation. This whole game is built around tension and suspense. Having a feature like this completely rids that because you no longer are like..."where's the enemy, should I go down here?" There's no fear of movement. Actually, there's no fear at all. Once you know where the enemy is, it becomes..."how do I take him down?" That's NOT the feeling I want in this game. I don't want to be the predator. I want to be a survivor. 

 

Plus, what's the point of this when they have perfectly reasonable sound effects? To me, it seems like ND is cheating themselves out because instead of allowing their sound to do everything for them, they are just like..."here, you can see them instead." Basically, you could play this game on mute and still get past the combat sequences. That should NOT happen. 

 

In my honest opinion, they shouldn't make this a default setting in the game. Since they are not taking it out, that's the way I think they should handle it. Let the player turn it ON, not off. I don't want to start the game knowing I have this dumb feature deafaultly activated that pretty much defeats EVERY emotional response ND is trying to create in combat scenarios. Don't know what's around the corner? Listen mode. Don't know how many enemies you're up against? Listen mode. In a game like this, those two things should NOT be given to you. They should be discovered and figured out by the player. That is tactics. You figure out what you're up against, then you figure out how to do with it. They're basically doing step 1 for you. Stupid.

 

But that's just me. I would completely get rid of this feature if I was ND, but I'm not, and they want money by making it more accesible. I would laugh so hard if this game was docked because of it, as I'm nearly positive critics are going to say the exact same thing I am about how it removes tension from the game and goes against what the game is about. Highly doubt they're going to praise it for being "tactical." I mean, imagine the E3 demo with listen mode, how much different it would be! How much less tension you'd feel! You would have already known there were three guys in the hallway, already known they were coming around to hunt for joel. Joel would have completely avoided the pipe to the face by running into the room after starting the gunfight. Just activate listen mode and it's all there for you. 

 

I mean seriously, just imagine that whole entire demo played over with listen mode, and how much differen't you'd FEEL towards the game. Getting off on a tangent now, but seriously, does anybody realize how greatly this kills all the tension out of fighting?

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Let's talk Listen Mode

[ Edited ]
Mar 24, 2013

Rogue_Eagle wrote:

Personally, I don't like it at all. I think it's completely out of the ordinary to have it in a game like this. It removes SO much tension it's not even funny. I was watching the demo, and I had no idea there was an enemy beside the guy right down the hallway until he activated listen mode. Well, without listen mode, I would have been stupid to make that mistake of not noticing the enemy, and I would have gone tense after I noticed he was there. Listen mode just basically said..."hey, he's right there you moron." It made me feel both stupid AND cheap. It did not add any tactical value. 

 

Plus, I don't think a game like this should require tactics. I think it should require improvsation. This whole game is built around tension and suspense. Having a feature like this completely rids that because you no longer are like..."where's the enemy, should I go down here?" There's no fear of movement. Actually, there's no fear at all. Once you know where the enemy is, it becomes..."how do I take him down?" That's NOT the feeling I want in this game. I don't want to be the predator. I want to be a survivor. 

 

Plus, what's the point of this when they have perfectly reasonable sound effects? To me, it seems like ND is cheating themselves out because instead of allowing their sound to do everything for them, they are just like..."here, you can see them instead." Basically, you could play this game on mute and still get past the combat sequences. That should NOT happen. 

 

In my honest opinion, they shouldn't make this a default setting in the game. Since they are not taking it out, that's the way I think they should handle it. Let the player turn it ON, not off. I don't want to start the game knowing I have this dumb feature deafaultly activated that pretty much defeats EVERY emotional response ND is trying to create in combat scenarios. Don't know what's around the corner? Listen mode. Don't know how many enemies you're up against? Listen mode. In a game like this, those two things should NOT be given to you. They should be discovered and figured out by the player. That is tactics. You figure out what you're up against, then you figure out how to do with it. They're basically doing step 1 for you. Stupid.

 

But that's just me. I would completely get rid of this feature if I was ND, but I'm not, and they want money by making it more accesible. I would laugh so hard if this game was docked because of it, as I'm nearly positive critics are going to say the exact same thing I am about how it removes tension from the game and goes against what the game is about. Highly doubt they're going to praise it for being "tactical." I mean, imagine the E3 demo with listen mode, how much different it would be! How much less tension you'd feel! You would have already known there were three guys in the hallway, already known they were coming around to hunt for joel. Joel would have completely avoided the pipe to the face by running into the room after starting the gunfight. Just activate listen mode and it's all there for you. 

 

I mean seriously, just imagine that whole entire demo played over with listen mode, and how much differen't you'd FEEL towards the game. Getting off on a tangent now, but seriously, does anybody realize how greatly this kills all the tension out of fighting?


You raise a very valid point,however they're not forcing you to use it. I agree there should be an option to turn it off though similar to Left 4 Dead's realism mode there's no outline either.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Let's talk Listen Mode

Mar 24, 2013
As I said, I would rather have the option to turn it on rather than off. I think it should be off from the start, and they should let you know it exists, but is essentially a cop-out. Having it on already makes it seem like this is the way they intend for you to play it. I don't think it should be, though, so I would have it off default with the player able to turn it on if they want.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Let's talk Listen Mode

Mar 24, 2013

Rogue_Eagle wrote:
As I said, I would rather have the option to turn it on rather than off. I think it should be off from the start, and they should let you know it exists, but is essentially a cop-out. Having it on already makes it seem like this is the way they intend for you to play it. I don't think it should be, though, so I would have it off default with the player able to turn it on if they want.

My only worry is if it'll be in multiplayer

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Naughty Paw
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Re: Let's talk Listen Mode

Mar 24, 2013
I saw people complaining on youtube that this feature is a deal breaker for them and, as a result, will not buy the game. Should I be worried?

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Let's talk Listen Mode

Mar 24, 2013
Yeah, I don't want it there, but for me it's more tolerable because your enemy is MUCH smarter than an AI. So, simply knowing where a human player is doesn't have AS much advantage as knowing where an AI is. AI behavior is predictable, so once you know where they are, you already know how they'll act. Human players aren't like that. Even though you know where they are, they could still surprise you. Either way, I don't want it, but it's much more tolerable to me in multiplayer because humans are smarter than computers. It's just cheap, though, for the person who gets jumped by it. Basically situational awareness all over again.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Let's talk Listen Mode

Mar 24, 2013

Rogue_Eagle wrote:
Yeah, I don't want it there, but for me it's more tolerable because your enemy is MUCH smarter than an AI. So, simply knowing where a human player is doesn't have AS much advantage as knowing where an AI is. AI behavior is predictable, so once you know where they are, you already know how they'll act. Human players aren't like that. Even though you know where they are, they could still surprise you. Either way, I don't want it, but it's much more tolerable to me in multiplayer because humans are smarter than computers. It's just cheap, though, for the person who gets jumped by it. Basically situational awareness all over again.

The Listen Mode will ruin the intensity of epic stealth battle on Multiplayer so even if they are smarter still don't want it. Also I wish  they would change it to a ripple effect as a person said on another thread since if they really wnted to make the game harder and AIs smarter,they could make the AIs throw bottles/bricks to trick you,because you shouldn't be the only one allowed to do that type of stuff and it seems like they'll never try to trick the main character because obviously you'll just see their outline,I'm actually debating if I should use it or not and wish there is an option to turn it off along with a trophy for beating the game without using it.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Let's talk Listen Mode

Mar 24, 2013

AKyemeni wrote:
I saw people complaining on youtube that this feature is a deal breaker for them and, as a result, will not buy the game. Should I be worried?

Honestly, I just REALLY, REALLY want to know why ND even considered implementing this feature. Seriously, I'm not joking. I wish they'd make a whole video about it just so we can see what their mindset was. The only thing I've ever heard them say about it is that it's supposed to be used for tactical reasons. However, reading my long post above kind of shows how this feature actually defeats that purpose A LOT, especially for a game like this. 

 

It was just a really, REALLY dumb feature to ad in my opinion. Optional or not, the fact that it exists, to me, is just stupid. You don't need it to play the game. It doesn't add any value to it. It changes the experience...but the problem with that new experience is that it is COMPELTELY different from the original experience tone-wise and suspense-wise. It changes the attitude of the game, all with just a press of a button. 

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