Joel is a little **bleep**. Instead of trying to get a cure for all of mankind he decides to be selfish and save Ellie. Now she goes on living knowing that Joel lied to her and that he really isn't such a great man afterall. I believe Ellie would have made the choice to sacrifice herself for the greater good.
Naughty Dog should have given the player the choice to either save Ellie or let the Fireflies go through with the operation. Since we didn't get a choice I would have perfered it if Joel would have told Ellie something along the lines of "I think we can still find a cure without you having to die in the process" instead of just straight up lying to her. This would have also set up a possible sequel.
The way it ended makes the whole game pointless.I just trekked across the U.S killing hunderds of people and zombies for no reason at all Nothing was accomplished. Everything the player did was for nothing since Joel wouldn't let the Fireflies go through with their original plan.
I think this is more a moral dilema ending.
How I percieve it is that Ellie gets to live her life, so in a sense Joel did it for her, not for actual selfish reasons. But yeah you can argue that he did it since he did not want to lose another "daughter" again.
Perhaps Joel actually believed the world was already too **bleep**ed for it to even matter anymore, so saving this girl was more meaningful to him.
When all comes to all I enjoyed the twist on the ending, how Joel refused to tell the truth, and told a lie, in a way to protect Ellie, as ignorance is bliss. To let Joel stay with her, and protect her, thats all he ever wants to do, no matter the cost.
i kinda agree with you, however. i understand Joel s decision , and its not making him a bad or good man, hes just a man that does what ever necessary to survive and protect Ellie . maybe its a little bit selfish in that decisions, but i understand it, he lost hes little girl one time, as he grew attached to Ellie how can he loose one again? she maybe not blood related but he kinda sees the daughter he couldn't never had in her.And in hes shoes i would had done the same thing, honest. saving the humanity at what cost? sacrificing an amazing little girl for what? no one is 100% sure it will do anything.
Im kinda selfish like that. if you told me i need to kill someone i love in order to save humanity.. chance are were doom cus i wont do it
Choice? It is Joels story not yours .
I disagree completely with you though and that is why the ending is brilliant. I personally felt what Joel felt so ND succeeded in making the story feel natural. Joel moved on from the death of his daughter and Ellie found someone she could count on. They found each other and that was the point of the story. Here's what pretty much sums up my thoughts on it =>
"Saw nothing wrong with Joel and his actions, he definitely isn't a psychopath as some claim him to be.
That "maybe" cure wouldn't fix the disease that's in people's hearts. If humanity were to survive then the best option would be like what Tommy and his wife are doing.
The infected weren't the real evil ones in this game, the majority of the human race that is left was.
The fireflies weren't the good guys, nobody is in that verse.
Marlene makes it clear in her final recording that her men did ask for permission(to sacrifice Ellie), she knew it was merely a formality. They were going to do it with or without Marlene or Ellie's permission.
Ellie was not in the right state of mind especially after all she had just been through. She just went on a road trip and finally realized the awful truth that yes it is worse out there.
And by the end she did consider him as her father and she was his daughter. He didn't replace Sarah, he was finally able to move on and accept her death.
Small examples of these were him finally talking about Sarah, him accepting her picture from Ellie(which he violently rejected from his brother). And Ellie of course saving him without a moment's hesitation on the floating bus.
The thing is even if the fireflies got the sample from Ellie, there was no guarantee they would get a cure. If they -somehow- got a cure, how about even spreading the cure? Convincing people they have a cure. All that **bleep** would have happened countless times over the years. People wouldn't believe it."
And don't forget that it was a human that shot Sarah, a human who followed orders because he thought he was doing the right thing. If Joel gave Ellie to the Fireflies, he would be no different. Is the life of one innocent girl whose humanity is still present worth the shot of saving the remains of mankind who'm we all see throughout the game to be awful, cannibals, murderers (Joel is no different). I'd say no. And so would Joel. You might not agree though and thats why it's a great story. And don't forget that the cure would still not eliminate the current infected either.
Joel: Lived his life. His life was hard and full of sorrow and couldn't take it anymore and sacrificed his life for Ellie. He had a chance to develope a bond with her and see her live to grow and to great things for mankind.
You can think of Ellie as his daughter in a way. Joel's actually daughter didn't have a chance to live and so he gave that chance for her to live. Who knows she might spread the cure if she's in the sequel to TLOU
I think someone summed it up best that why should Joel even care for humanity? His relationship with his brother is rocky, at best, his daughter was killed by the military, he's been shot at on sight in a brutal dog eat dog world and Tess is dead. Bill hates his guts, Ellie is the last shred of humanity the man has left. Even when he knew Ellie was a cure he still tried to put her onto Tommy. He never cared about finding a cure. For a chapter or two, sure, he showed concern about how important she is though that can be aruged as him trying to not show his personal feelings towards her.
He already lost one daughter in a brutal fashion, by the end of the game they both feel a father/daughter dynamic. After twenty, twenty long years, he finally has something worth living for. It's only natural he wouldn't care two damns about the greater good but himself. It isn't out of character for him to be selfish in those regards.
They're both equally flawed characters, it's why you are meant to care about them. They're not pillars of the greater good, they're written as people. Joel was scared of being alone just as much as Ellie was.
As well as this, there was no 100% guarentee they'd even find a cure. Sure. Ellie was immune but that doesn't mean they'd understand HOW she was immune by dissecting her. The only thing Joel really lied about was that they had stopped looking, there were notes and recorders detailing they'd tried on other immune specimens and found nothing. Unless I read/heard them wrong and misunderstood. Even then, at the end, Joel confirms he has survivors guilt just as much as Ellie... he's not an emotionally stable man; asking him to do what's for the greater good wouldn't register to him, he's a much more personal man than that and, again, what does he owe humanity at this point? Marlene even writes about how he set Joel and Tess up. He was a complete loner bar Tess and Ellie. David, Bill, they were pretty reflective of what Joel COULD have become, heck David even looks pretty similar to Joel.
We had not had a single moral choice up until that point, why would they give us one now? They are telling you a story, doesn't mean it has to end one way another other than the one they decided unless they'd told you different.
So you wouldn't sacrifice one life for the chance to save a billion others? Even if there is no guarantee it will work you at least HAVE to try. Yes it would be a hard choice to make, letting someone you love die, but it also the right choice.
Also I didn't get the sense that the Fireflies were doing this for money. Marlene was doing this to help try and find a cure for the disease.
No they didnt mention money in the game. but do you truly believe they would give it for free? i personally dont.
ofcourse thats something to debate and its entirely different on the subject but its just my opinion.