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Splicer
Registered: 06/26/2013
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Re: Radical discussion about Joel. Spoiler and ruiner warning.

Jul 9, 2013

I want to compare and contrast Joel to other characters:

 

Joel and Tommy

1.  In the very beginning Joel comes off as being a little forceful with his brother on the phone.  We don't hear what Tommy says, but knowing Tommy, he was probably just trying to assure his brother that everything is under control.

 

2.  While escaping in the car with Tommy Joel starts a big argument demanding that he moves back or forwards to get out of there, even if it means running people over.  Something that even Sarah backs up Tommy with, as he downright refuses to hit anybody.

 

Joel and Marlene

 

1.  In the end Marlene had a gun pointed right at Joel's head; she could have easily blown his brains out.  We all know that Marlene can shoot accurately from a distance even under fire, how much more could she have hit Joel point blank in the forehead right up close.  She didn't, instead just begging and reasoning with Joel to do the right thing.  

 

      a.  Not to forget that the solders do not play around: they knock you right on your back and blow your brains out with out even a word.

 

2.  Joel, on the other hand, did shoot her.  Yes, the first shot can be argued as self defense, but what about the second?  He states that she will just keep looking for her, but obviously the situation will change.  

 

Ellie will wake up from her coma, and Joel will tell her that they have to kill her to find the cure.  Joel well knows that Marlene is not going to force her own adoptive daughter to give up her own life.  He heard just earlier on the voice recordings how the fireflys coerced her into making that very harsh decision.  Now, with Ellie about to wake up, it will clearly be her decision what she wants to do.  And for Joel to think that Marlene will actually sponsor the kidnapping herself?????  If anything, she would've tried to stop the Fire Fly's from their bounty hunt, and persuaded them to let her do it herself.  Her only trying to find Ellie and give Ellie the choice to make the decision for herself.

 

Now that Marlene is a martyr, who's to stop the Firefly's now?  They are now on a all sought girl hunt.  And you better believe they will treat anyone who gets in their way even worse than the government, now that they don't have the Marlene good hearted buffer.  Yes, that includes Tommy Ville; their rifles are no match for AK-47s and and bazookas.

 

I think Joel knew that she was not going to kill her.  More so, he thought she would just try to take her away from him; that his lie could not be kept confidential with Marlene alive.

 

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Splicer
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Re: Radical discussion about Joel. Spoiler and ruiner warning.

Jul 9, 2013
You are very right cannon fodder: my poor writing abilities is actually the downfall of what could be potentially good ideas. KISS: Keep It Short and Simple is a law I really need to learn.
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Monster Hunter
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Re: Radical discussion about Joel. Spoiler and ruiner warning.

Jul 9, 2013

semper_fi_1999 wrote:
Falcon i think your also fooling yourself if you dont think that Ellie knows Joel lied to her.

I just reread that, my mistake. I definitely think Ellie knows Joel lied to her. My comment was intended to be about the fact that we'll never know if she could have been instrumental in developing a cure, but I failed to articulate it properly.

 

I haven't really analyzed her closely enough to determine how she's going to handle that lie, but based on a cursory review of Ellie's character I'd maybe argue that she's going to start slowly withdrawing from Joel. She's definitely a character who doesn't trust people easily and being aware of Joel's lie would definitely put her on guard, especially considering how betrayed she would feel. And probably uncomfortable about being his "replacement" daughter.

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Monster Hunter
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Re: Radical discussion about Joel. Spoiler and ruiner warning.

Jul 9, 2013

WinterEdit wrote:

Good points, falcon, good points... 

 

I'd suggest the tl;dr version to be:

 

"Joel does bad things/is a bad guy, but the world is bad also."

 


Anyway, my favorite character in the game was Ellie anyway, so I don't need to argue about Joel's character that badly. Your thoughts could well be true. :smileyhappy:


Thank you! 

 

And yes, one thing I did forget to emphasize is the fact the world definitely plays a big part in Joel's transformation.

 

I have a strong desire to expand on that part of it, but I am exhausted. :\

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Monster Hunter
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Re: Radical discussion about Joel. Spoiler and ruiner warning.

Jul 10, 2013
**bleep** Jove you put what I've been thinking into words. Everyone said Marlene was so horrible. But she didn't have to watch over Elli.
I recently replayed and the way she looked after her after she left broke my heart
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Splicer
Registered: 06/21/2013
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Re: Radical discussion about Joel. Spoiler and ruiner warning.

[ Edited ]
Jul 10, 2013

Great post, I am pleased someone else realizes the fact that Joel is a cold blooded killer, a murderer. He went back to murder Marlene, and showed no mercy as he blew her head off, Ellies adopted mother/guardian. What makes it easier to accept is we are not given the background info in any serious form, Also , Marlene didn't realise that the surgery would be fatal until right at the end either when she had to make the call, Ellie or "Yumanidy" but unfortunately for Ellie Marlene was a Liberal. If Ellie ever finds out, Joel is in for some hurting as Joel may have lied about the fireflies, but he sure didn't tell her he killed Marlene.

effyou
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