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Jun 29 2013
By: EndureNSurvive Splicer 32 posts
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***SPOILERS *** STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

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118 replies 1784 views Edited Jun 29, 2013

sacrificed herself if she knew Joel was lying. She definitely knew, saying that she didnt know dumbs down the impact of the game&message ND is giving and sh*tting on all of Ellie's character developement. The purpose of the whole last scene was to show that she knew Joel was lying. I believe I wrote a good explanation in another post so i am copying it here too. Feel free to read it if you have a bit of time in your hands because i feel i did a fairly good job explaining the ending:

 

I completely believe that Ellie wouldn't sacrifice herself if she knew the whole thing . And the thing is SHE KNEW THE WHOLE THING AND STILL DIDNT SACRIFICE HERSELF& CHOSE TO LIVE WITH JOEL. People above has aggreed upon the fact that she didn't know she had to die in order to find the vaccine. However some people are saying that she would have sacrificed herself if the fireflies asked her. I believe that this is completely wrong, and if you believe this it takes away from the emotional impact of the end. The whole ending part was suggesting that Ellie knew what she had to do but she refused to do it, just like Joel.

 

Ellie is crazy smart. To survive for that long you have to be smart. She is definitely smarter than the 20 year olds of now. So to suggest that she didnt know Joel was lying is bs. After she wakes up she immediatly realizes that she is wearing a surgery cloth thingy. After that she starts talking about her friends that died. Do you really think that she talks about them just for the giggles. No she understands that something went wrong, she left without changing her clothes, she left without saying her goodbyes to Marlene, who is as close as a mother to her. She certainly knows Joel did something bad to the fireflies otherwise why would have they left in such a hurry after all the effort to come to that place. To suggest that she didnt see through Joel's lies and his shady explanations is ignoring all of ND's efforts to create a mentally and physically strong character in Ellie and also saying that she is dumb. Anyone could have seen through those lies let alone Ellie.

 

She talks about her friends that have died. She tells Joel that she feels guilty because everyone around her dies, and by talking about them she tells Joel that maybe she needs to die, maybe this is the purpose of her life, dying in order to find a cure. And Joel tells her that she will find new things to fight for. That is what he did. And Ellie aggrees with her. She accepts Joel's lies, she CHOOSES to believe him, so that she can be with Joel. And this is why the ending is so powerful. From the start of the game, Joel was never a real hero. He was a damaged guy, who did what he had to do to survive. He even was a hunter once. Just like Tess said, they were **bleep** people. So to see him save Ellie and sacrifice the human race in the process is an understandable thing. It shocks you but still it is understandable. You expect this from a father. However Ellie doing the same thing with Joel is emotionally impactful. If Ellie lived in our world, she would been a sweet sweet kid. But in TLOA's world she is a survivor just like Joel. By choosing to believe his lies, Ellie did what Joel did, she sacrificed humanity. And this is why the ending is very strong. Seeing a kid, who is supposed to be innocent, making the "selfish" decision (in todays societies morality of course, in TLOAs world there are no morals) is the big punchline of the game. By doing this ND gives the message of the game, which is that there are no morals, no selfless decisions in this world, you have to do what you have to do to survive.

 

So i say Joel and Ellie are both selfish, they both chose to sacrifice human race to be with each other. However we cannot judge them and say that they made the right or wrong decision because they live in a completely different reality from us. These are my 2 cents hope it helps someone.

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Splicer
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

Just found an article on Kotaku, Neil Druckmann writer of the game says the exact same things with me in this article .

http://kotaku.com/the-last-of-us-climactic-moments-could-have-been-very-600685013

 

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Wastelander
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

*SPOILERS*

 

 

Ummm...she would have sacrificed herself. The whole point of bringing up her friend Riley, Tess and Sam was her way of showing survivor's guilt. And she's been waiting her 'turn' to die since Riley did. The only thing is, her turn had a chance to produce a cure -- something she wouldn't have passed on at that point. Now, going in, no, she didn't know she'd die. That was made obvious after all her comments on what'd they'd do after their journey was over.

 

Now, tell me this, if you believe so strongly she wouldn't have sacrificed herself, how come Joel, the character who knows Ellie more than any of us, believe she would have? So much so that he lied to the one person he had left?

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

Amen.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

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Jun 29, 2013

She **bleep** 14 ofc shes going to feel guilty. She wouldnt have sacrificed herself shes still a kid and most likely selfish at heart (like every other teen/kid). She just felt guilty and needed reasurrance. Also Joel lied because hes already lost a daughter, hes a (close) sociopath who doesnt think rationally (due to years of trauma, violence and loss) and he loved the hell out of her so why would he risk it. Also who says he lied to her to stop her from sacrificing herself? Maybe he didnt want to tell her about you know.... Meredith? Seriously were reading too much into the ending here it was a blatant cliff hanger deal with it.

 

EDIT: Lol just read that to myself and i sounded like a right **bleep** haha ah well.

 

DOUBLE EDIT: Oh yea he also lied to her so she didnt think he was a complete D.I.C.K. Also if she knew Joel was lying (its pretty obvious, either shes completely stupid or she knew) why didnt she say

"**bleep** you joel im going back, because im a 14 year old teen who actually wants to through my whole life away to save some rapists, murderers and brutes"

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

Spoilers

 

Ok, to my understanding, I believe Joel feels that regardless of operating on Ellie or not, they are not gonna bring humanity back. In order to save humanity, Marlene can sacrifice a fourteen year old girl, without directly asking for her consent. Well, she just assumed that Ellie would want to do that. So Ellie dies, and then people like Marlene, those cannibals, hunters, they all get to live??? It don't make sense does it? What if they killed Ellie and still can't find a cure? Remember the opening, they said the vaccines failed. So? It can fail again, and nothing is gonna bring Ellie back. That is really gonna be "For Nothing".

 

Joel accepts the world he is living now, he accepts his lifestyle, he accepts that Ellie is gonna be with him. And the journey he took with Ellie changed him. He is not the same man as before. He has a purpose in life now - Ellie. And most importantly like someone said, they are survivors. Smiley Happy

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013
I agree, Ellie is no saint and is just trying to survive... She's not Jesus, she won't sacrifice herself for a bunch of murderers.
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Wastelander
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

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Jun 29, 2013

And thanks for that article link because this piece right here actually proves my point: < EDIT: Blanket statement. It was 4AM. x_x

 

"But as we got closer and closer to shooting that scene, it stopped feeling honest. And Ellie, over the course of the game, initially you're just writing and working with such broad strokes. And as you take it deeper, that's when you really figure out who the character is. She had such a good **bleep** detector that it didn't feel like she would buy it. Or at least not buy it so easily. And then the scene kind of grew out of that, that there would be a kind of final challenge."

 


Ellie knew Joel was lying, you could clearly see that in her face. And she wasn't exactly all smiles at the end, was she?

 

She would have sacrificed herself, because her 'turn' could have saved mankind.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

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Jun 29, 2013

Oh woooow she wasnt smiling because she potentially ruined mankind (srsly.... you expected her to be happy about that?)

 

You said it yourself she knew joel was lying so why doesnt she just say '**bleep** it im off to the fireflies bro'

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

Regardless of Ellie wants to sacrifice herself OR NOT, the thing is Joel believes it makes no difference (operating on Ellie or not is NOT gonna bring humanity back - this is what Joel believes) and he made that decision for her. Yes, you can call Joel selfish but he didn't become a Survivor being nice to everyone.

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