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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

Soufdawg wrote:

Number one was a logical answer.

 

However explain how number 2 wasnt? You seem to be dismissing claims and simply saying

"Its not"

or

"It was implied"


With no examples. Which makes you look like a fool/bafoon/moron/turdsplash

 

Also i said its 100% certain? Ok quote me. Dont say:

"It was implied"

 

Also tell me WHY my reasons are bad? Tell me why dont just say they are explain it to me so I can furthur better myself and understand this story because clearly you understand it alot more than me..... (sarcasm for the retarded)

 

Come at me


It is implied that she doesn't see the world just as scum by how she tries to befriend other people like Tess, Henry and Sam and then when they die she wants to talk about it. You can't just say all humans only consist of scum because even though a huge part are, not all are like that (e.g. Tommy and his people). If anyone believes mankind is not worth saving then it's Joel.

 

The entire thread you went like "why do people think she would agree to it? lolol" or something like that. 

 

And your reasons are bad because you try to explain story related things with: "Because they wanna make a **bleep** game."

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

Reread my edit btw Infact ill repost it:

 

"Know what here are my questions (feel free to offer me any in return and I shall answer)

 

1. Why doesnt Ellie leave Joel if she is so passionate about getting a cure (she clearly knows hes BS'ing)

2. Why WOULD Ellie Sacrifice herself for a world that has done nothing but bring her pain?

3. HOW does a 14 year old potty mouthed teenager who gets annoyed when Joel tells her to stay back (so she doesnt kill people) want to sacrifice her self for the good of mankind? She hasnt seen ANY good in the human race because she was born into this **bleep**ed up world.

 

Answer those 3 and I will acknowledge a real debate otherwise leave it."

 


Also to answer your post:

 

You implied she wanted to befriend Sam and Henrey. Why? Lemme state:

1. Shes a teenage girl (naive and forgiving)

2. Sam didnt blow Joel and Ellies heads of meaning they werent the bad guys....

3. Joel also befriends Henrey, Sam and Tess so that point you made about Ellie doesnt view the world as scum because she befriends people is invalid (however unlike you i stated why)

 

Yes I do have a hard time finding why people believe it so I challange them in hopefully broadening my knowledge on this subject however so far nobody has managed to. So yes you were wrong again I never said i was '100% SURESSSS'

 

Also I have made multiple points yet you choose the one that was clearly a joke because of how LOGICAL it was..

 

Again come at me

 

 

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

[ Edited ]
Jun 29, 2013

Vranklin I agree with your points and not Soufdawg

 

Soufdawg your logic doesn't stand whether what you say it's true or not.

 

Vranklin  counterpoints are more logical and valid. You seem to divide it into black and white and makes things sound shallow and easy:

"I think if someone was really that passionate of saving the world one simple lie isnt going to take away that passion. Also lol at where is she going to go. Haha she previously ran away because of an argument and ended up at a cabin. If she doesnt run away because she 'doesnt know where to go' thats suggesting she is not that passionate about her 'destiny' of offing herself."

 

Destiny of offing herself? Seriously? What do you think this is? The 300? Who wants to off themselves?

 

You don't like to repeat yourself so i will repeat myself since you are wishing for " examples" and "explain it to me so I can furthur better myself and understand this story because clearly you understand it alot more than me"

 

This is what i said previously WITH FACTS-EXAMPLES:

 

"The word sacrifice doesn’t fit here. It doesn't fit with Ellie. It only fits with Joel because he knows the complete truth. Ellie doesn't. She can just guess, and she knows that Joel is lying about something. She knows that the Fireflies were gonna do something to her because she sees the surgery clothes, because they left in a hurry, because there is something in Joels tone that isn't right. But she doesn't know exactly what. She wants to live definitely, we can see that through the Spring chapter, making plans for the future, but she also wants to end this thing and go to the hospital. When Joel asks her "we don't have to do this, you know that right?" she thinks about it and then says in a tone "lets just end this and then we can leave and go wherever you want to". She keeps on going because she has survivors guilt, seeing so many people close to her die while she is still alive, and also because "it can't be for nothing". She wants to end this, she wants to help find a cure and THEN she wants to go home. When Joel lies to her (before the final scene) she knows that Joel is lying about something. She knows that the Fireflies were gonna do something to her because she sees the surgery clothes, because they left in a hurry, because there is something in Joels tone that isn't right. But she doesn't know exactly what. I said it before i'll say it again just to make it fit with the previous. So at the end while she walks through the forest she is thinking all of this.

 

At the final cutscene she mentions Riley, Tess, Sam because she feels guilt that she is alive from the bite and they are not. She wants to HELP. That's why she fights hard to get to the hospital (although she gets tired and just wants to end this like i mentioned), because she can actually help, her life has a meaning! She may or may not wanted to sacrifice, we can't know for sure, but she definitely wanted to help! Marlene said "that's what she would have wanted". Maybe, maybe not. She surely wanted to help though, about sacrificing we don't know.

 

Her life had a good purpose. If you read the comics Riley says to Ellie "do you ever think about the future?" and Ellie says "not much to think about really." So we can obviously see that she didn't have any plans, nor had any purpose or anything. Riley kept on by saying "that's what they want us to think..." and etc. In the game though we see Ellie fighting for her life's purpose. She found one to live for which is pretty powerful since she can actually help others. Also since we know that Riley dies, Ellie probably feels kind of "obligated" to her. We can understand that in the end-that's why she mentions her-she remembers her. We can see that in our everyday life actually. Someone we know dies or gets sick, and we all say "i wish i did that with them, or said that to them". Ellie wishes to take back what was taken away from her friend. Riley was a firefly (check her pendant in Ellie's backpack). Fireflies fought for finding a cure. That's what Riley was probably fighting for too or wanted to fight for. Once Ellie saw that she is immune and her best friend dies because she isn’t, plus the fact that she fought for the fireflies cause which is about finding a cure, Ellie immediately feels like she can help her cause. Do something for her friend who died. That's why she struggles to talk about Riley in the end. That's why she mentions it in all the climax of the ending and not before. Because that's what she had in mind through all of her journey but in the end her "cause" slipped away.Throughout their journey we can she her fighting for that but coming closer to the end after all she has been through she feels less for humanity, more tired and she wants to just end this. She wants to live and at the same time help. So that's why Joel lies to her. Because he believes that telling Ellie the truth might be a risk. Also because by lying to her means she doesn’t need to feel responsible anymore, her survivors guilt might be entirely gone and he can take all the burden.

 

Ellie says “okay” not because she believes Joel (she has a bullsh*t detector), but because she trusts him. Because she found one person that didn’t leave her, and one person that she cares about and vice versa. Because she found an excuse in Joels lie to live for. Because in her mothers letter, her mother urges her to live. “Life is worth living for”, that’s what she tells her. Ellie wants to live. But I’ll keep saying, despite that, we see her being sad and a bit quiet towards the end cause she still wants to help but chooses to say okay and accept the situation."

 

Now, I have given evidence and valid points of argument for what is everybody saying, or not, because everybody here is just expressing opinions only. I used facts-the exact words that the characters said in both comics and game and just connected the lines. Especially my point with Riley which i noticed no one else thought of in any forum. The comics give background story to what drives Ellie later in the game. Which is what our argument is about guys! Her decision in the end, origins from her beginning.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

[ Edited ]
Jun 29, 2013

Can you please summerize your points rather than forcing us to read the Lord of the rings Part 4..... i summerized my points why cant you?

 

Infact I have skimmed through your post. Whos side are you on? You seem to be agreeing with me? You share the belief that Ellie wouldnt have sacrificed herself while the guy you agree with thinks she would have. Im confused?

 

Also well done your so call 'facts' are just you describing the last 10 minutes of the game in text. Glad i skimmed through that waste of time of a post.

 

EDIT: You say my points are simple and shallow. Why is that not allowed? Are there some rules saying that all amazing games have to have Metal gear solid levels of complexity (plot wise) why cant the game be simple? You make no sense at all. Your post was basically 8+ paragraphs of fail and reciting the ending of the game. Good job.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

Because summarizing points removes the impact of what i'm trying to say and transmit to you.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

What are you transmitting? You basically turned into wikipedia and told me what happens during the final moments of the game. You also agreed with me alot yet you say you agree with the other guy who thinks Ellie would have sacrificed herself?

 

I am still waiting for you and the other **bleep** to answer my questions.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

Not the 10 last minutes. I even talk about the comics and things many people clearly missed. Like Riley You clear don't want to talk about it at all. You don't want to see what others are saying.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

Did Naughty dog state that the comics coorelate with the main story? No they did not so that is hardly fact.

 

Also I do want to see what others are saying I just dont want to read 8+ paragraph long posts online. I made my points easy to read why cant you? Also why the F*CK can nobody answer my questions!

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

 The "other guy" said Marlene may have convinced her to sacrifice, not that she would sacrifice. And no i don't agrre with either of you. Btw I clearly stated that it's the way and logic you put down, that make your points not valid whether what you say it's true or not.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: STOP SAYING THAT ELLIE WOULD HAVE ...

Jun 29, 2013

@HPVale

This man understood the ending and the whole story in its entirety.

 

In the end we don't know if she would have sacrificed herself but Joel saw it at least as a strong possibilty, that's why he never gave her the choice to decide but rather made the decision himself to not put anymore guilt into her.

 

@Soufdawg 

It's funny how you criticise other peoples writing style when your posts are pretty much a chore to read.

I'm not even gonna bother with arguing anymore. There is no proof she would have sacrificed herself but there is also no proof that she would definitely not have done it.

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