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Wastelander
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Re: Some Gamespot BS from a TG

Jul 8, 2013

HPVale wrote:

Hey, read this arcticle about TLOU. Feels opposite of Carl's. Lol...Carl!Smiley Very Happy

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-05-the-last-of-us-isnt-the-solution-to-sexism-in-games-but...


Nice find. I read it, and I agree with it. I'll show you why;

 

That is something I can identify with, as someone who lived through the Catford riots. But also as someone who has fought to be defined by what I do rather than what I am. I don't want to play games featuring women I'm expected to feel sorry for or aspire to be. I want to play games featuring women I can relate to, because they are complex and flawed and believable, and don't live on a paradise island where there is nothing to do but waggle your poorly pixellated perineum at the camera.

 

While I am a young man(20), I can not agree more with the author. I absolutely love video games where I can relate to the characters. It just so happens that I am somewhat sexist. I don't like playing as female characters, at all. Playing as Ellie was awesome, though, and it was so much fun to do so. For myself, I love Gears of War. I can relate to Marcus Fenix a lot. The way he acts, what he says, how he handles situations. I think the reason why I loved his story and the games so much is because I can relate to him. I think that that is better than just having a cool looking player character, or a bouncing tittied space babe to play as. Games like Lollipop Chainsaw, to me, are absolutely ridiculous. Want a better way to obectify women? After Lollipop Chainsaw comes porn. It's almost that borderline, if you know what I mean. An I'm not saying that women can't be sexy and strong, it's just that a game like that can send the wrong messages to certain groups.

 

Another thing I hated, was in Batman Arkham City. I don't want to play as Catwoman. I bought the game to play as Batman. It's not that Batman has a **bleep**, and Catwoman has **bleep**, it's just the simple fact that I like Batman more than Catwoman. I think she's an awesome character who can hold her own, but if I'm forced to play as someone, it really takes away from my experience. I'd prefer two seperate campaigns that tie into each other so I can play the whole story as Character A, and then Character B, instead of A, B, A, B, A. (insert contra code here)

 

There is a problem with sexism in games and The Last of Us does not solve it. But that's an impossible task for a single game, and I'm not sure casting Ellie as the main character would have made much difference. This is never just Joel's story. The fact he gets more hours of playtime should not detract from Naughty Dog's efforts to represent women in a realistic, intelligent way.

 

More games have been including women. Gears Of War for example, has included several women within it's story. Anya was always in the game, but never playable until Gears 3. Along with Anya, there was Sam, Bernie made a nice cameo, and became playable later on as DLC. The final DLC released a short campaign(roughly 5 hours) with a new female Gear, Alicia Valera. She's in the DLC the whole time, up until the final 20 minutes.

 

Gears of War Judgment's campaign featured another new female Gear, Sophia Hendrick. Unfortunately, she is the stereotypical "dumb broad" who is getting tried for war crimes, and yet still defends "her" military to the end. She is annoying, and extremely dumb in that game. And to think EPIC had something going for them with Gears of War 3. At least they had proportionate, strong, AND sexy female leads in their game, and there was only a 40 minute stretch where an all-male cast was playable. Other than that, at least 1 female was in the squad.

 

I think Games like Mass Effect, and Fable, but to a lesser extent, are good at giving the player the option of choosing who you want to be. Male or female? Well, it doesn't really make much a difference, it's a character model and voice actor. The choices you make don't change. The Elder Scrolls series, (i've only played Oblivion and Skyrim) don't make any difference as to who your charcter is, wether male or female, soldier or scout. Could that be a good thing? I mean, really, if they don't make any noticeable difference to your gender, does that mean it's equal?

 

I think, in all honesty, that games need to be more realistic in how they portray both genders. There are men out there who definately couldn't go toe to toe with some women. And some of the women couldn't play the heroin, or become the "chosen one". It all comes down to makin interesting characters in an intersting story. Who cares if they have **bleep** or a **bleep**. If they're interesting on their own, players will love them for who they are, not what they look like.


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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Some Gamespot BS from a TG

Jul 8, 2013

HPVale wrote:

mujahein66 wrote:

You lost all credibility when you compared women to African slaves. Were women forced to pick cotton all day? Did women get bombed by the KKK and other racist groups? I dont think so. So you are saying feminism is not extreme? Dont make me laugh. When foudning feminists say things like men are al rapists and good for nothing and evil you think that is not extreme. Good intentions mean jack when the movement destroys families and gives record high divorce rates and criminals raised by single moms. PS dont reply with a condescending attitude because I wont lean over for you like your boyfriend.


1. Don't be mean, i didn't offend you did i?

 

2. I didn't compare women with African slaves. I compared slavery, meaning no freedom and being told what to do. There are different types of slavery and i said that people tend to rise when they were deprived from their rights and freedom. Black people earned their rights, women did too. Simpe as. If you don't believe women were repressed back then, and a lot still are, you should study some more. I'm not saying they "picked cotton all day". But i'm saying being forced to stay home, being forced to raise children, being forced not to work, being forced to do what they were told is a form of slavery.

 

3. Feminism was founded for equality of rights in every aspect of women's life, meaning what you can do, we can. Again- simpe as. It started with a simple request: "we want to work". Wow now that's is extreme! It didn't mean being superior, it didn't say anything offensive for men. No rapists, no evil no nothing. I have studied this you know. You are just speaking with...i don't know anger?

 

4. As i have stated, the word "Feminism" is corrupted, for the general population. Feminism does not have that rapist-evil-animal-hate men feeling to it and does not support it. Let me explain. I can give you a knife. What can you do with it? You can use it to take someone's life by stabbing them, or you can use it to save someone's life by performing surgery on them. It's a tool. So is feminism. Some women are using it as an excuse to make themselves superior and talk **bleep** about men, and some can make a real difference for women. The difference has been done by true feminists. The rest of the women are not feminists.

 

5. Have you studied sociology, psychology, anything about education or history? Any human studies at all? Yeah well feminism is not making criminals. So you say that we have more criminals now because of divorces caused by feminism? Hey, hey did you hear? Video games make people violent too! Ha, yeah, no really!! (sarcasm). You are saying a similar thing. Divorces aren't at higher rates. Statistics will show you that they are. Sociology will explain that they are not. Back in the day did you know that a man could leave their family, just disappear, and women could not divorce them. They could only do so 7 YEARS after the disappearance of the husband. So what did husbands do? They appeared once in a while. Don't believe me-study. Well i'm actually kinda glad that is not allowed now. That's just ONE example of being unfair. So sociology explains that divorces would be at very similar rates, if they were allowed back in the day. Now, we just have a way to a)do them, b)trace them, c)talk about them, which makes them much more "visible". Imagine a curtain being opened and behind are the divorces. Media and transportation of people and data now is so fast, that divorces 'seem' to be more than usual. There is no usual. There is allowing one to divorce.

 

6. My attitude is and was fine. Yours wasn't from the very begining. You have already leaned.

 

 

P.S Sorry for getting out of context!


You shouldn't be apologizing at all, you had a very valid point.

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Splicer
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Re: Some Gamespot BS from a TG

Jul 8, 2013

Everytime one group wants to speak about rights et al there is always going to be another group that suddenly wants to play the "who was more oppressed game" The game that even when you win you still freaking lose! Smiley Very Happy

 

Anyway, imo, race and feminism are two different things. Feminism is a white woman's movement so that they can gain equal status to white men. So I doubt she was comparing it to slavery. Anyway, trying to squeeze all of this back to TLOU and that article. Maybe this could blow up in my face but whatever, I like controversial topics and I'm an easygoing person so here I go.  I sort of wonder that if more and more video games like this featured only white female protagonists would "Carl" proclaim a happy mission accomplished in her so called movement for change in video games? Maybe I'm adding a lot of assumptions on her, I admit that I am but a part of me thinks she would see no issues if that suddenly began happening.

 

If I were to think up other topics to discuss relating to this type of article I have a few more.

 

If the game featured Henry and Sam would she had still written her article or would she consider it a "no no" topic?

 

What if Ellie was switched with Sam instead of Tess being switched with Joel? Not just the part in the game where that happened but from the very start. Would she write an article about the brooding violent white man who has to take care of the timid black boy? Actually, I think someone else would write that article LOL!

 

What if Ellie was a boy (inspired by the what if Ellie was a boy thread)? I bet her head would just explode.

 

Would she had been happy if all the men were walking shadows and we only saw the female characters?

 

What if all the characters in TLOU were women, you think she would find that strange?

 

More ramblings Woman Happy

 

 

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Re: Some Gamespot BS from a TG

Jul 8, 2013

FUIVT0PLAY wrote:
While I am a young man(20), I can not agree more with the author. I absolutely love video games where I can relate to the characters. It just so happens that I am somewhat sexist. I don't like playing as female characters, at all.

 I agree with that article and I don't find it sexist at all to admit that you don't like playing a female character. I actually find it a bit refreshing to the opinion of "I wanna look at a nice **bleep**" that most men use for rolling female characters. I'm a woman but I don't even like playing female characters most of the time.  The article sums up a good protion of my reasons why when she states that she wants characters she can relate to not aspire to be. Who the heck wants to play a female you have to look up to as this perfect woman? I know I'm not perfect. The only time I don't mind playing a female is in an mmo and that's only if she can wear clothes that don't look like she's about to get a yeast infection at any moment.

 

What surprised me about myself though is that I love playing a man far more than a woman overall. I discovered this about myself while playing games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age...or maybe it's just Bioware games. I love my male Shepard far more than my female Shepard. I tried playing both as a renegade and the male came across more genuinely a badass rather than "sexy badass".  I have multiple male Shepards that I've played all three games with and only one female shepard that I finished the first game and only half the second game with. As for Dragon Age 2, well I guess it's my turn to think I'm being sexist here, but I loved the Male Hawke's voice and making him a gay man was awesome cause you don't see many gay male protagonists in video games. 

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Wastelander
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Re: Some Gamespot BS from a TG

Jul 8, 2013

sparkleus wrote:

FUIVT0PLAY wrote:
While I am a young man(20), I can not agree more with the author. I absolutely love video games where I can relate to the characters. It just so happens that I am somewhat sexist. I don't like playing as female characters, at all.

 I agree with that article and I don't find it sexist at all to admit that you don't like playing a female character. I actually find it a bit refreshing to the opinion of "I wanna look at a nice **bleep**" that most men use for rolling female characters. I'm a woman but I don't even like playing female characters most of the time.  The article sums up a good protion of my reasons why when she states that she wants characters she can relate to not aspire to be. Who the heck wants to play a female you have to look up to as this perfect woman? I know I'm not perfect. The only time I don't mind playing a female is in an mmo and that's only if she can wear clothes that don't look like she's about to get a yeast infection at any moment.

 

What surprised me about myself though is that I love playing a man far more than a woman overall. I discovered this about myself while playing games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age...or maybe it's just Bioware games. I love my male Shepard far more than my female Shepard. I tried playing both as a renegade and the male came across more genuinely a badass rather than "sexy badass".  I have multiple male Shepards that I've played all three games with and only one female shepard that I finished the first game and only half the second game with. As for Dragon Age 2, well I guess it's my turn to think I'm being sexist here, but I loved the Male Hawke's voice and making him a gay man was awesome cause you don't see many gay male protagonists in video games. 


Well that's good for you. Honestly, I haven't met any women like you(who prefer playing as a male character). Personally, I'm somewhat shy around others, mostly 'cause I can't stand a lot of people, so I enjoy my video games and make my character "me' as much as I can. So games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Skyrim, I make myself on how I am now, and how I would be faced with those situations. I usually get my brother to create how I would look within the game to further improve my involvement within the game, it's characters, and universe.

Like I said, I don't particularily enjoy playing as females, ie. Gears of War I will never play as Anya, Sam, Bernie, or Alicia, always Marcus, Dom, Cole or Barrick, mostly Marcus, but it was a very enjoyable experience playing as Ellie in The Last Of Us. I felt as though I wasn't playng as her, but more along the lines of watching her story, like a movie or TV series.

 

Off topic, I hated Dragon Age II cause I couldn't be a dwarf. If I can be a dwarf, I'll be one. I like the beards, the gruffness, axes, and power houses that are dwarves.


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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Some Gamespot BS from a TG

Jul 8, 2013

FUIVT0PLAY wrote:

I think, in all honesty, that games need to be more realistic in how they portray both genders. There are men out there who definately couldn't go toe to toe with some women. And some of the women couldn't play the heroin, or become the "chosen one". It all comes down to makin interesting characters in an intersting story. Who cares if they have **bleep** or a **bleep**. If they're interesting on their own, players will love them for who they are, not what they look like.


Oh man, agree, agree! I try to see people, not categories, even in my everyday life. If they are interesting or just real at least (cause people are just so fake sometimes) i'm into them. I hate it when a man talks to me and assumes "hey she has facebook, she dosen't know how to drive, she loves Justin Beaver!". No, no please, i'm not a fking computer. Meaning you can't duplicate an image from something/someone else, and paste it onto me. (for all the computer wiz out there Smiley Wink )

Just...whatever.

The Last of Us was excellent in, well everything, but especially in women portrayal. Neil said it himself in an interview. He said this (can't remember the exact words but it was this): "i tried not to think about gender while i was writing it. In the end we wanted to tell a story. If it was Tess the protagonist and a little boy, i'd still be the same story, with the same impact." He said something like this, making sure he was understood. Huh respect for that guy!

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Re: Some Gamespot BS from a TG

Jul 8, 2013

HPVale wrote:

FUIVT0PLAY wrote:

I think, in all honesty, that games need to be more realistic in how they portray both genders. There are men out there who definately couldn't go toe to toe with some women. And some of the women couldn't play the heroin, or become the "chosen one". It all comes down to makin interesting characters in an intersting story. Who cares if they have **bleep** or a **bleep**. If they're interesting on their own, players will love them for who they are, not what they look like.


Oh man, agree, agree! I try to see people, not categories, even in my everyday life. If they are interesting or just real at least (cause people are just so fake sometimes) i'm into them. I hate it when a man talks to me and assumes "hey she has facebook, she dosen't know how to drive, she loves Justin Beaver!". No, no please, i'm not a fking computer. Meaning you can't duplicate an image from something/someone else, and paste it onto me. (for all the computer wiz out there Smiley Wink )

Just...whatever.

The Last of Us was excellent in, well everything, but especially in women portrayal. Neil said it himself in an interview. He said this (can't remember the exact words but it was this): "i tried not to think about gender while i was writing it. In the end we wanted to tell a story. If it was Tess the protagonist and a little boy, i'd still be the same story, with the same impact." He said something like this, making sure he was understood. Huh respect for that guy!


Mad props to Neel for saying that. Hey do you have a facebook? Smiley Tongue I'm kidding

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Wastelander
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Re: Some Gamespot BS from a TG

Jul 8, 2013

HPVale wrote:

FUIVT0PLAY wrote:

I think, in all honesty, that games need to be more realistic in how they portray both genders. There are men out there who definately couldn't go toe to toe with some women. And some of the women couldn't play the heroin, or become the "chosen one". It all comes down to makin interesting characters in an intersting story. Who cares if they have **bleep** or a **bleep**. If they're interesting on their own, players will love them for who they are, not what they look like.


Oh man, agree, agree! I try to see people, not categories, even in my everyday life. If they are interesting or just real at least (cause people are just so fake sometimes) i'm into them. I hate it when a man talks to me and assumes "hey she has facebook, she dosen't know how to drive, she loves Justin Beaver!". No, no please, i'm not a fking computer. Meaning you can't duplicate an image from something/someone else, and paste it onto me. (for all the computer wiz out there Smiley Wink )

Just...whatever.

The Last of Us was excellent in, well everything, but especially in women portrayal. Neil said it himself in an interview. He said this (can't remember the exact words but it was this): "i tried not to think about gender while i was writing it. In the end we wanted to tell a story. If it was Tess the protagonist and a little boy, i'd still be the same story, with the same impact." He said something like this, making sure he was understood. Huh respect for that guy!


I know exactly the interview you're talking about. And yeah, It would essentially be the same story. In my opinion, they would have had to change how it played simply because of the whole gender physical strengths thing(in my mind, but like I said, it's just to be realistic, not saying women can't strangle out people, but you get my point) or, a real cool idea I just had, we played as Ellie, Joel was an NPC and it was more stealth oriented with NPC Joel watching out for us. How would people feel about that? I think people would feel more of a connection to Joel becuase he(even though he wouldn't be real) would be protecting the player, instead of the other way around.

There's really an infinite amount of possibilites with the game.


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Re: Some Gamespot BS from a TG

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Jul 8, 2013

TheNobleSquirrel

Haha! Well no i don't! Smiley Tongue

 

FUIVT0PLAY

No definetely agree with the change of gameplay because of physical strength. Haha i was actually thinking a lot about it. It was cool how the did it with Ellie, but i would have added more like, half-damage with punches, more flawed punches, different steath kill, different punch/fall down/grabbed annimation, a woman would push more, bite, scratch etc I could go on!!!Smiley Tongue

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Wastelander
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Re: Some Gamespot BS from a TG

Jul 8, 2013

HPVale wrote:

TheNobleSquirrel

Haha! Well no i don't! Smiley Tongue

 

FUIVT0PLAY

No definetely agree with the change of gameplay because of physical strength. Haha i was actually thinking a lot abou it. I was cool how the did it with Ellie, but i would have added more like, half-damage with punches, more flawed punches, different steath kill, different punch/fall down grabbed annimation, a woman would push more, bite, scratch etc I could go on!!!Smiley Tongue


No exactly! Oh man. It's nice to have some people who agree for a change. And hey, it could be the SP DLC that's coming out! You never know! Oh and look at the Uncharted women. Elana and Chloe are strong, confidant, sexy, smart. That game wasnt sexist. (I meant sexy not as in sexy like...oh never mind, you know what I mean.)


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