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Sackboy
Registered: 12/28/2009
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Re: The AI is nothing like they showed us.

Jun 7, 2013

Honestly it does still look better than Uncharted AI, maybe not E3 like AI, but still... better. The game will still be good no doubt. I've watched about 2 hours of gameplay and it's pretty good, and the very beginning of the story where you meet Ellie, I won't spoil it, but I can say I wasn't expecting it. I've still seen guys say stuff like flank him, he's in the alley, he's behind the counter, and when one of they guys with a shotgun pointed at joel was moving in, joel took one of his friends hostage and pointed the gun at him so he ran out the building and took cover, then joel shot the gun, but it was empty, so he ran around and tried to get joel from behind.

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First Son
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Re: The AI is nothing like they showed us.

Jun 7, 2013

I-Like-Pie45 wrote:

Lt_Roken wrote:

 

cvbxsta wrote:
I must say that AI and combat in the new dev diary look just as impressive as the E3 footage

I thought the same until i noticed it was the E3 build (Same melee prompts as E3 not the same as the new demo)


Except the weapon interface is from the newer builds of TLoU and not the E3 version...


Yeah i noticed after watching it again, in one of the clips it showed the old sqaure counter in the bottom left corner like Uncharted.

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: The AI is nothing like they showed us.

Jun 7, 2013

Rogue_Eagle wrote:

studio35 wrote:

LEO_BRAWL wrote:
I tried to tell people this days ago....but people tried to convince me otherwise, probably worked for ND

So did I...

 

But when I told people that the AI is unimpressive, the Naughty Dog Activist came to my house with pitch forks...they wanted to hang me & set my body on fire


But they ARE impressive. That's the thing. I'm replaying all the uncharted's right now. You want to know how the AI reacts to anything? Move around so slow between cover so it gives me time to shoot them. The satisfaction comes from taking down a whole army of them.

 

I replayed Halo combat evolved. What's so special about that AI? That have a boatload of health so I can't kill them in 1-3 hits, and they are greater in numbers. Plus they roll and take occasional cover. Again, though, it just boils down to shooting them while not getting hit yourself and hoping that they don't charge when your shields are down or reloading. There's really no strategy except take out grunts first, elites second, and dodge grenades. 

 

Basically, all AI has ever been is overpowered. You give them a bunch of health, or you give them greater numbers. TLOU seems to be pitting you against maybe 3-4 human enemies at once. That's not a lot of numbers, so already ND is not taking the easy route. Then, ND is NOT giving them as many weapons as all the other games do. Heck, some don't even have weapons. How often do you see AI in games NOT have weapons? Especially when YOU do. ND is again stepping out of the comfort zone. 

 

This is the FIRST time they have used this AI system, as they redesigned it for this game specifically, and you're complaining about it. It's not going to be PERFECT right away, but gosh darn it's innovative and you can bet in the next games ND releases it will be even better.

 

It's WONDERFUL for how it is right now. E3 demo was scripted to let you know those are all the possible options the AI can do if it is contextualized right. Instead of giving the AI the ability to do something other than charge you when you ran out of ammo, they made the guy recognize it so they could demostrate Ellie's ability to attack them. They scripted the guy to beg when you had the shot gun so that it could come to a climatic ending. The AI still DO that in the game, but not when you expect them to, and you shouldn't EXPECT them to do it. It will just happen, that's the thing. Like Skyrim's dragons but for regular AI.

 

You are just so pessimistic about this claiming that E3 was a hoax and lie. It wasn't. It was scripted in terms of allowing you to know what options the AI can perform in, and what options the AI can do to react, and how Ellie can contribute. If they would have played non-scripted, we might have been saying that Ellie doesn't do anything, or the enemies don't run away, because the situation could have played out entirely different.

 

That's another thing. You replay the combat scenarios, and the AI constantly reacts differently. Maybe one time they won't beg for their life, but the next time you play it on new game+, they do. Your over-critizing ND's first attempt at this intricate AI system. Maybe if this was their second time with it, I'd be more critical, but it's not. And they've done a gosh darn good job with it for their first outing considering all the variables that are in it. 


It's the intelligence.

 

People are saying the the intelligence is not there. The AI is not as smart as the E3 demo advertised.

 

They're dumb...they do stupid things. 

 

People on this board are getting wet over the fact that the AI flanks you.....uh, okay?

 

so what? They flank you like complete idiots. 

 

 

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I Only Post Everything
Registered: 11/20/2010
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Re: The AI is nothing like they showed us.

[ Edited ]
Jun 7, 2013

What are you guys on about? I'm currently 4 hours into the game :smileyvery-happy:. No spoilers below but regarding the AI =>

You can punch humans down and aim at them just like the E3 demo. They will beg for their lives and if you wait for a while or stop aiming, they will stand back up and rush you for a last attempt.

You can take hostages and everyone are all "Take it easy!"

You clean a room and two people come searching going all "I know you're here! Show yourself!"

The AI will flank you and surprise you constantly.

The only thing that I haven't seen that was in the E3 demo was the very last moment with the cutscene like play where one guy jumps on Joel, Ellie stabs him in the back, and it all seemingly blends.

But Ellie still does stab people in the back to save you when you're struggling which is pretty much the exact same thing.

The struggle tap square also create those mini cutscenes and the whole context sensitive melee gameplay is amazing. You can't counter as far as I can tell. But in midst of Square square square, the opponent might dodge, and THEN you are presented with the chance to block and push him back by the usage of Triangle.

In short =>
The AI is like the E3 demo from what I feel. And I am only 4 hours in. If you take your time and play the same scenario over and over, you will be able to capture some really amazing moments and eventually make your own "E3 video". It really feels like you're taking lives.

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 09/13/2011
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Re: The AI is nothing like they showed us.

Jun 7, 2013

studio35 wrote:

Rogue_Eagle wrote:

studio35 wrote:

LEO_BRAWL wrote:
I tried to tell people this days ago....but people tried to convince me otherwise, probably worked for ND

So did I...

 

But when I told people that the AI is unimpressive, the Naughty Dog Activist came to my house with pitch forks...they wanted to hang me & set my body on fire


But they ARE impressive. That's the thing. I'm replaying all the uncharted's right now. You want to know how the AI reacts to anything? Move around so slow between cover so it gives me time to shoot them. The satisfaction comes from taking down a whole army of them.

 

I replayed Halo combat evolved. What's so special about that AI? That have a boatload of health so I can't kill them in 1-3 hits, and they are greater in numbers. Plus they roll and take occasional cover. Again, though, it just boils down to shooting them while not getting hit yourself and hoping that they don't charge when your shields are down or reloading. There's really no strategy except take out grunts first, elites second, and dodge grenades. 

 

Basically, all AI has ever been is overpowered. You give them a bunch of health, or you give them greater numbers. TLOU seems to be pitting you against maybe 3-4 human enemies at once. That's not a lot of numbers, so already ND is not taking the easy route. Then, ND is NOT giving them as many weapons as all the other games do. Heck, some don't even have weapons. How often do you see AI in games NOT have weapons? Especially when YOU do. ND is again stepping out of the comfort zone. 

 

This is the FIRST time they have used this AI system, as they redesigned it for this game specifically, and you're complaining about it. It's not going to be PERFECT right away, but gosh darn it's innovative and you can bet in the next games ND releases it will be even better.

 

It's WONDERFUL for how it is right now. E3 demo was scripted to let you know those are all the possible options the AI can do if it is contextualized right. Instead of giving the AI the ability to do something other than charge you when you ran out of ammo, they made the guy recognize it so they could demostrate Ellie's ability to attack them. They scripted the guy to beg when you had the shot gun so that it could come to a climatic ending. The AI still DO that in the game, but not when you expect them to, and you shouldn't EXPECT them to do it. It will just happen, that's the thing. Like Skyrim's dragons but for regular AI.

 

You are just so pessimistic about this claiming that E3 was a hoax and lie. It wasn't. It was scripted in terms of allowing you to know what options the AI can perform in, and what options the AI can do to react, and how Ellie can contribute. If they would have played non-scripted, we might have been saying that Ellie doesn't do anything, or the enemies don't run away, because the situation could have played out entirely different.

 

That's another thing. You replay the combat scenarios, and the AI constantly reacts differently. Maybe one time they won't beg for their life, but the next time you play it on new game+, they do. Your over-critizing ND's first attempt at this intricate AI system. Maybe if this was their second time with it, I'd be more critical, but it's not. And they've done a gosh darn good job with it for their first outing considering all the variables that are in it. 


It's the intelligence.

 

People are saying the the intelligence is not there. The AI is not as smart as the E3 demo advertised.

 

They're dumb...they do stupid things. 

 

People on this board are getting wet over the fact that the AI flanks you.....uh, okay?

 

so what? They flank you like complete idiots. 

 

 


They flank you WITHOUT weapons. Why? Desperation. The AI knows there are no weapons around for them to use, or it might be better to flank you while you're distracted, and then use melee to take you down. That's good programming. In any other game, when an enemy doesn't have a weapon, they do nothing. Absolutely nothing, unless they are a melee built character. Fight an AI in halo who DOESN'T have a gun.

 

Fight an AI in ANY SHOOTING game that DOESN'T have a gun. Tell me what they do. Absolutely nothing, except maybe bum rush you...maybe, if they've been programmed to do that. They're not just going to leave the fight. That's not a programmed option. That's human intelligence, yes, but it wasn't programmed in. It was a design decision that ND chose to not implement that for story reasons. They wanted you to fight whether you wanted to or not because that's the tone they wanted to get across.

 

You're not getting the fact that you're versing AI who are programmed to fight WITH and WITHOUT weapons. You're not fighting melee + weaponized enemies. You're fighting enemies who can switch back and fourth acording to circumstances.  

 

How can you say they act like complete idiots when you don't even know what the AI is thinking? This isn't multiplayer. It's not a freaking human being. It's acting on code, not intelligence. We just call it intelligence to make understanding it easer, but it's programmed actions based on data. That's what YOU'RE not understanding. We're not even close to having "artificial intelligence" in ANY science field let alone video games. So, don't expect REAL INTELLIGENT THOUGHT. Be impressed by how ND has programmed these AI to react according to mathematical variables that are AFFECTED by us, REAL humans.  

 

For pete's sake, if you want real actions, then just play the multiplayer. It's the exact same as singleplayer but with real human beings so you don't have to complain about the AI. If you're not a fan of multiplayer because of OTHER PLAYERS, then you're hypocritical, because that's what you want the AI to be like. A real human being with human thought. So, if you get mad that people spam a certain gun, or will hop around like morons to avoid gunfire, then you're hypocritical to not want that in singleplayer, because that's human thought and intelligence. You avoid dying with all the nesccesary options available, including exploiting game mechanics. 

 

You need to be the conqueror somehow in singleplayer, and that is achieved by being more MINDFUL than your opponent. If your opponent had human intelligence constantly, and it was always 1-4, you'd always lose, or at least lose more often than not. 

 

That's why I can't stand people who complain about AI, because then they complain about others in multiplayer, but those are actual human beings using the intelligence of a real human being. How can you like one in one mode and not one in the other?

 

Oh, and another thing. The E3 demo was 15 min. The entire game is 18 hours. You're not going to get perfect AI 100% of the time, but you'll get it more often than not. That's another thing you're not understanding.  

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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 02/03/2010
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Re: The AI is nothing like they showed us.

[ Edited ]
Jun 7, 2013

Aldro wrote:

What are you guys on about? I'm currently 4 hours into the game :smileyvery-happy:. No spoilers below but regarding the AI =>

You can punch humans down and aim at them just like the E3 demo. They will beg for their lives and if you wait for a while or stop aiming, they will stand back up and rush you for a last attempt.

You can take hostages and everyone are all "Take it easy!"

You clean a room and two people come searching going all "I know you're here! Show yourself!"

The AI will flank you and surprise you constantly.

The only thing that I haven't seen that was in the E3 demo was the very last moment with the cutscene like play where one guy jumps on Joel, Ellie stabs him in the back, and it all seemingly blends.

But Ellie still does stab people in the back to save you when you're struggling which is pretty much the exact same thing.

The struggle tap square also create those mini cutscenes and the whole context sensitive melee gameplay is amazing. You can't counter as far as I can tell. But in midst of Square square square, the opponent might dodge, and THEN you are presented with the chance to block and push him back by the usage of Triangle.

In short =>
The AI is like the E3 demo from what I feel. And I am only 4 hours in. If you take your time and play the same scenario over and over, you will be able to capture some really amazing moments and eventually make your own "E3 video". It really feels like you're taking lives.


Thank you, put my fears to rest

 

One last question: you know in the extended E3 demo, there's one guy left, he sees Joel with the gun, runs away and hides. There's an intense cat and mouse, you can hear what sounds like rummaging and then the last guy ambushes Joel with a Molotov and rushes him.

 

Have you seen the AI do things like that? Everything else in your response sounds fantastic, this is the last thing I'd like to know and then I'm be satisified

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 02/24/2010
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Re: The AI is nothing like they showed us.

Jun 7, 2013

cvbxsta wrote:

Aldro wrote:

What are you guys on about? I'm currently 4 hours into the game :smileyvery-happy:. No spoilers below but regarding the AI =>

You can punch humans down and aim at them just like the E3 demo. They will beg for their lives and if you wait for a while or stop aiming, they will stand back up and rush you for a last attempt.

You can take hostages and everyone are all "Take it easy!"

You clean a room and two people come searching going all "I know you're here! Show yourself!"

The AI will flank you and surprise you constantly.

The only thing that I haven't seen that was in the E3 demo was the very last moment with the cutscene like play where one guy jumps on Joel, Ellie stabs him in the back, and it all seemingly blends.

But Ellie still does stab people in the back to save you when you're struggling which is pretty much the exact same thing.

The struggle tap square also create those mini cutscenes and the whole context sensitive melee gameplay is amazing. You can't counter as far as I can tell. But in midst of Square square square, the opponent might dodge, and THEN you are presented with the chance to block and push him back by the usage of Triangle.

In short =>
The AI is like the E3 demo from what I feel. And I am only 4 hours in. If you take your time and play the same scenario over and over, you will be able to capture some really amazing moments and eventually make your own "E3 video". It really feels like you're taking lives.


Thank you, put my fears to rest

 

One last question: you know in the extended E3 demo, there's one guy left, he sees Joel with the gun, runs away and hides. There's an intense cat and mouse, you can hear what sounds like rummaging and then the last guy ambushes Joel with a Molotov and rushes him.

 

Have you seen the AI do things like that? Everything else in your response sounds fantastic, this is the last thing I'd like to know and then I'm be satisified


This, and also, you know people are going to ask, but if you put a pic of your copy of the game with a note saying your username it could save you the time of people whining saying you dont have the game etc.

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