If you read back, I did say I commented you for making a video that was different in concept than the same old watch me stomp newbies videos that many people do post.
The thing I do have issues with is where people on here some how think they are better than others based on the load out skills they choose heck even when people come on here claiming so and so is a noob for playing a different game.
I hear people calling players out for even wearing covert training...yep appearently to some thats noob play as well.
You use what keeps you playing, telling other players their play is less skilled just makes you look intolerant.
Look how Nd veiws this arguement, at one time SA was for noobs, ND said LOL we gonna givebit to every one.
INCANGENERAL wrote: ^DO NOT make the FT 3 loadout points it is not as good as SG nor el diablo leave as is.
Akyemeni wrote: I don't know. I got burned pretty bad by you yesterday.
Lol akyemeni yea the flamethrower is fun they stay trying to nerf things I use the SAR , the 2x4 , brawler etc now flamethrower.
Sandudde is right it has limitations it is not Op I never think any weapon is Op . I just use whatever is fun for me to use.
^DO NOT make the FT 3 loadout points it is not as good as SG nor el diablo leave as is.
Swiftavenger wrote: But is is. I would say its better than el diablo. Its ammo cost is cheaper too. You get 30 fuel compared to shotgun 2 shots. Also I have seen a lot of times shotgun miss, but with 30 fuel you can down more than 2 people for sure, or burn them simultaneously. As for shotgun 2 shots are good but against armour, its 2 shots for one down, while flamethrower just blows through armour. Also FLT doesnt down, it executes right away.
Flamethrower is strictly close quarters, el diablo more versatile and almost has cheap ammo. Shotgun more powerful than flamethrower. I RARELY burn more than 2 ppl w 30 ammo. So I contend FT is not as good as these 2 other purchaseables.
speed and damage to be precise. these are pretty much the most important things when it comes to melee. why would i care my plank has 4 durability if im gonna die? itll be gone anyway.
again, its way more reliable. yes, plank does work well. still there are often situations when it will not suffice while machete will do the job just fine - mentioned earlier range/dmg with shorty 'combo' (dmg altogether - revolver, 2 burst bullets instead of 3 etc. etc.) or a possibility of enemy having hp on melee/headshot and so on.
if you consider machete useless then you probably need to try it a bit more. i doubt ppl consider military sniper useless even though it costs 4 pts, quite a bit of parts to maintain, needs to be scoped and its effectiveness is severly reduced by armour.
going by your logic: machete can beat every close quarters weapon, while at the same time you dont need to spend parts all the time just to be able to use it. thats an exaggeration of course, upgrading machete gets quite difficult if youre doing well enough, but you get the point.
the reason why you dont see machete too much is because people try to use it as 1hko plank. and its not working too well like that. also, other options are easier. this doesnt mean theres no room for machete. like i said, not everything has to be, or can be for that matter, perfectly balanced. its impossible.
btw. i see few machetes here and there every time i play.
if you want it buffed because you consider it useless then it shouldnt be because its not. if you want it buffed to make it more appealing to a larger number of players then why not. thing is, the last purchasable buff was quite frankly way too much then it was required or deserved especially without adjusting the costs. machete can very well stay as it is if that would be the case.
vanilla was good, current version is still good mainly due to very subtle buffs/nerfs. subtle machete buff - sure. FTlike machete buff? no, thanks.
lol comparing it to the military sniper? If you compare the 3 snipers, they are actually pretty balanced out, all kill in 2 shots, yet the faster firing one can blow off a head and still easily go through armour and down a person, albeit getting costly, it is superior to the hunting rifle but much more costly and if you have subpar aim isn't worth it. Tha sniper isn't useless because imagining a perfect scenario where you are a crackshot, 1 purchase lets you kill the entire team once at varying distances, pull that off with the machete at close range where many things are just as if not more deadly than it, not worth the cost there...
if you're far enough to where a shorty doesn't do full damage but the plank/machete is in reach then I don't know how you pull that off. The combo works slightly better with the machete, so if you combine it with other weapons it is decent and other melee can still do that, so it's good if you use other things with it and not standalone?
the reason I don't see the machete to much is because it isn't much better than the 2x4. People much rather have 2 guaranteed downs and then some rather than a weapon you have to go through hoops with to make effective. Not everything has to be balanced, true, but leaving the machete as a useless novelty isn't the answer which is what the flamethrower was. If you're one of the ones who think the flamethrower is OP now well aww well, it is a purchaseable weapon and should have significant killing potential to regular means like other purchaseables. Flamethrower was in the same boat as machete, novelty used for laughs weapon that may get you a kill or 2 but more often than not, get you killed yourself.
In short, the machete has very few things over the 2x4, and really does not compete with other purchaseables considering the cheaper flamethrower/shotgun are around. when modded, the 2x4 lasts longer and is more lethal, when unmodded, the 2x4 has more durability and can down 2 guys as opposed to 1 with machete, if you use a gun combo, than that's 4 with 2x4 and 2 with machete; when competing with other purchaseables that take less loadout points than it, the machete can barely swing once before being killed/downed by a flamethrower/shotgun.
I have used it, quite a bit actually, time after time has the modded 2x4, which isn't all that rare, won over the machete when I used it, when I saw others use it, when someone used it against me. Never have I seen someone in-game just slap it on and do significantly better in melee range since it is literally at the lowest tier of effectiveness, beating out...fists, and slightly tieing with unmodded 2x4 in certain aspects. It's useless, can it be used for some kills? sure, doesn't mean it is ok and worth the cost of 4 loadout points, some parts, and constant use of scissors and tape OR for you to be losing badly and get one out of a cache.
nearly everyone agrees there is something needed on it, a ND person themself said they are looking into it since they notice the lack of effectiveness on it as well. It needs something, and plenty of people have thought of decent suggestions in making it a bit better, yet still being within range of a "purchaseable melee weapon"
that comparison was intentionally blow out of proportion for the sake of argument.
military sniper is good. machete isnt bad either. its better than other melee weapons aka plank. the problem being availability of the latter.
before ND made changes to the plank from what i remember it wasnt guaranteed for everyone (supply) like it basically is now (mind you i dont play supply anymore, im assuming its the same as int) and in survivors it was placed in the middle box during first two rounds (if you were doing well enough you wouldnt get it anyway). that placement in survivors was imho great as it encouraged ppl to fight for the middle box. its a shame its gone from the mode.
and yes, military can kill entire enemy team. so does upgraded machete - i did that yesterday on bus depot at enemy lockbox (then got roflstomped by them 3 secs later, but hey. gotta love these respawns). dont get me wrong, military is a better purchasable altogether - thats why it costs more.
that situation shouldnt be hard to imagine. for example when you have to shoot the legs (shorty deals less than 50 to the legs afaik, prolly due to spread) or when youre being rushed by 1hko plank - you need to shoot em before they can melee you. combo works the best with the machete simply because theres only machete and the plank. it works better with the better weapon. also, replace shorty with revolver and its getting way trickier to pull of with plank.
im not so keen on calling things op or up just like that. that said its definitely imbalanced atm.
its a purchasable so it should have a significant killing power? yeah. except other purchasables are more expensive. FT costs the same as long arms (which are not silent btw, FT is), its cheaper than shotty and offers very similar killing power with much higher killing efficiency.
iirc the op in the recent FT thread was a FT user who claimed it was ok before the patch. you call it a pre patch novelty, many want to buff burst vs armour and the same applies to machete. multiple players that actually use(d) these a lot are fine with how they are/were. just something to think about.
but ok, lets say FT buff was needed and machete needs one as well.
look at current ND tweaks - 8% here, 10% there. nothing major, quite frankly hardly noticeable changes which i personally find very good because:
A) they dont really change the balance from what vanilla was, but...
B) they do something and so the criers are satisfied
what FT got was an elevation to the staus of a cheaper shotty. all this while being insta-execute and silent to boot. again, vanilla was good. not perfect, and thats why tweaks are a good thing. FT shouldve been rebalanced entirely or get a buff similar to the others - subtle one.
as an example, yesterday surv w/ a friend. we ran into a group of 2 or 3 FT. lost.
the next game my friend decided to use a FT just to try it/give em the taste of their own medicine. he went 10/11/3 and we won easily. with just 1 FT. its a game changer. even more so than a shotty or military sniper or whatever.
ive seen a lot of 'stop asking for nerfs, adapt' going on here. maybe ppl should stop asking for buffs? i imagine it would lower the amount of nerf requests.
in general: yes, machete could use a buff. a small, subtle buff. or a complete rebalance. or the plank spawns could be altered. or it could become 1/2pts, 200 parts 4 base durability 1hko melee with shiv option. or not. you choose. im ok with how it is, even if its slightly up.
The flamethrower was consistently beaten by unmodded 2x4 and modded 2x4s through it's flame, unless you had a guy cornered in an enclosed space without a melee weapon, you weren't killing him with it or at the very least, wasting most of the 30 fuel purchased for the one kill. Just seeing, a fully modded machete has 5 hits, and that is 2 1/2 downs, should you pair it with a gun, that is 5 downs, with a 2x4, the same case would be 4 downs, if paired with a gun, 6 downs.
I'm not saying the machete sucks exactly, just that compared to the 2x4 which is fairly abundant (exempt survivors) it is on par with it. You have a 2x4 and machete attack at the same time, thanks to latency issues, even if machete is faster, chances are they will still down each other at the same time quite often. When you have 2 weapons that are fairly similar with slight edges above one another but with a significant difference in cost, most people will settle for the cheaper one...It has no significant qualities over the 2x4, that is what it needs, if not at least make it cheaper. Unlike the other purchaseables have over their counterparts, such as the assault rifle having significant RoF, the military sniper having significant RoF and insta-kills, the shotgun having significant range damage and RoF, the El Diablo having decent RoF and no forced scope, and the flamethrower most likely being the ideal weapon for close quarters, machete doesn't really have that and being one of the more expensive purchaseables just further opens the wound.
as for the flamethrower, it is insanely effective at close range, yes like it should be, unlike other purchaseables though, it can't physically hurt you after a certain range, like the shotgun can, and besides the shotgun can down faster than the flamethrower can kill, pre-buff, this made it virtually worthless despite it being the cheapest one, running out and saying oh I got a kill with it here and there isn't saying much either (much like with the machete now). It has significant killing power yes, but so do all the other purchaseables and at varying ranges and effectiveness as well. Flamethrower needed it, machete needs it. Just because it is possible to do good with a flamethrower now doesn't mean it is OP now... just because you can kill people with a machete doesn't make it good. I would personally say that yea, it's biggest problem is the 2x4 though.
I've used the machete for a while now, and I'd have to agree with it being on par with a 2x4 and inferior to a modded 2x4 on a straight up melee fight. It especially sucks on those oh crap moments when you just happen to stumble upon your opponent and your 4 loadout points purchasable gets beaten out by something everyone has easy access to.
For me, the best thing the machete has going for it is its speed and mobility. Doing the slash shot combo - which is the way I personally get the most out of the machete - is more covenient and effective with it compared to a plain 2x4 because: you can get the machete the second you have parts for it as opposed to relying on supply box drops, modding it doesn't change the way it works, and it takes fewer shots before a hit can cause a down. At its best, it feels like having a modded 2x4 with five hits, and you're hitting people on the stairs all the time (no two seconds of being a sitting duck).
With that said, the slash shot combo only works really well when used with a revolver (which is the only gun I use it with). There's no difference between a 2x4 and a machete when it's used with a Shorty, but it's 2 shots vs. 1 shot before slashing with a revolver which is pretty huge, considering the fact that if you've gotten two shots in you might as well go for a third anyway. Not to mention that you're sticking your head out there long enough for people to actually do serious damage to you. A 9mm on the other hand will need two shots (three for a 2x4) for it to be a one hit down, since a machete doesn't really take 4 full bars of health; it's more like 3.75 or something. I'd probably use the machete with a 9mm if it did 4 full bars of damage instead, to be honest. Only probably because the revolver is pretty gdlk, being a mini-SAR and all.
Now, I could go on about how well the machete works for me (kinda did ramble up there), but that just proves your point that just because someone can kill with it doesn't make it good. I agree. Regarding the machete vs. 2x4, I think the best way to fix that is to allow the machete to hit two times in a row quickly, kinda like how Joel swings the machete when hitting nothing. If at that speed the modded 2x4 can still beat the machete i.e. modded 2x4 hits you before the second slash hits him, then have it so that each hit with the machete cancels the melee swing the way gunshots do. With that setup, the machete will beat the 2x4 in pure melee but it'll break more quickly, which means you'll have to use up materials if you wanna keep using it. The only problem is that the flamethrower might become too vulnerable to the machete if it can swing that fast (shotgun has some range to it, is insta-down, and stops melee so I don't think it'd be a problem). Probably increase its durability to three too to justify the 4 LO point cost and to not make Brawler a must.
Also, one thing that would be really nice is to make it so that it takes one hit to execute someone with a machete. A modded 2x4 has it and it's pretty fast. The shorty, bow, and hunting rifle have it and those do less damage than the machete. So yeah... Oh, I mainly play Supply Raid so everything I wrote is based on using the machete on that mode. On Survivors it's pretty awesome already, and I haven't really tried in in Interrogation.