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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Patch 1.06: Networking Changes Discussions - Part 2

Feb 21, 2014

First match since the Part 2 changes and most of my enemies are at 2 bars. Used to be 3-4 bars before the change. I'm in Canada with a 25/5 internet connection. 




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Gaming Beast
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Re: Patch 1.06: Networking Changes Discussions - Part 2

Feb 21, 2014
@ newextreme
Glad to hear your actually looking into your set up for answers.

You could have a bad router causing these issues as well.
Have you tried directly connecting to your modem as well. This will give you nat1 open.
This is the most trouble free way to game.
Though not the best because your cutting out other devices.

Is your routers firmware also up to date?
You may even consider port forwarding your ps3 for this game as well.
Being your in the dmz did you set up a static ip for your ps3?
I shoot you first, I die= you lag. Vice versa not applicable.
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Monster Hunter
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Re: Patch 1.06: Networking Changes Discussions - Part 2

[ Edited ]
Feb 21, 2014

93686016[1].png

Yesterday i got first time a white plug, i had 5 bars but getting every 30 seconds the white plug.

My Feedback Report is on Page 4.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Patch 1.06: Networking Changes Discussions - Part 2

Feb 22, 2014
I don't get it, I have my step dad playing his PS4 downstairs, my mom surfing the web, and little sis streaming, yet I have not seen a single white plug. Either Optimum is the shiz, or you guys are using some back water cable company.
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First Son
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Re: Patch 1.06: Networking Changes Discussions - Part 2

[ Edited ]
Feb 22, 2014

Optimum is very good, number 2 in Netflix ISP rating USA

 

http://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/usa , just behind Google

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Fender Bender
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Re: Patch 1.06: Networking Changes Discussions - Part 2

Feb 22, 2014
I have optimum online also and I have it wired when I play I don't use WiFi .

I've gotten the white plug icon once or twice two different matches 10-15 second duration and I was able to move. Aside from the invisible people which I even encountered in a private match today!! The new update as far as lag goes is a welcomed attempt by Nd.
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Naughty Dog Developer
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Re: Patch 1.06: Networking Changes Discussions - Part 2

[ Edited ]
Feb 22, 2014

INCANGENERAL wrote:
I have optimum online also and I have it wired when I play I don't use WiFi .

I've gotten the white plug icon once or twice two different matches 10-15 second duration and I was able to move. Aside from the invisible people which I even encountered in a private match today!! The new update as far as lag goes is a welcomed attempt by Nd.

 

Did anything happen during the private match before the invisible player bug occurred (e.g. a player dropped out, or got the network disconnect icon), or was it right from match start?

 

If you could try to reproduce the invisible player bug in a private match with the same players that would be helpful.  This bug has been with us for several games now and we've never been able to isolate the conditions to reproduce it.

 

For other people who are getting the network disconnect icon regularly, we're doing some research into the upload bandwidth usage.  Based on some initial numbers I gathered yesterday from our internal playtests, it looks like we may be exceeding the upload bandwidth of some users who have very limited upstream (such as the fellow with a speedtest of 0.13Mbps upload).

 

While an upload even as low as 0.13Mbps might seem adequate, unfortunately the speedtest bandwidth numbers are not a good reflection of the actual bandwidth between players.  A speedtest tests your connection to a fast local server (or one in a location you choose, but they're always going to be fast servers on a high-speed connection).  During actual gameplay though, you may be connected to a player who is fairly distant to you.  Your upstream bandwidth to this player is likely going to be much less than it is to your local speedtest server.  Because there is a lot of peer-to-peer traffic in The Last of Us, your bandwidth to each player matters.

 

If anyone experiencing the network disconnect icon wants to do some bandwidth testing for us, it would be useful to have some real-world numbers on the bandwidth between players.  To do this you would need to find another player willing to help (probably from your friends list).  First test that you have a ping to this player of 200ms or less (google how to ping an IP from your PC if you need info), then upload a sizable file (5-10 megabytes at least) directly to that player - via FTP or a messaging app that lets you see your upload rate.  Then report back with the ping and upload rate.

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Sackboy
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Re: Patch 1.06: Networking Changes Discussions - Part 2

[ Edited ]
Feb 22, 2014

ndi-edaly wrote:

INCANGENERAL wrote:
I have optimum online also and I have it wired when I play I don't use WiFi .

I've gotten the white plug icon once or twice two different matches 10-15 second duration and I was able to move. Aside from the invisible people which I even encountered in a private match today!! The new update as far as lag goes is a welcomed attempt by Nd.

 

Did anything happen during the private match before the invisible player bug occurred (e.g. a player dropped out, or got the network disconnect icon), or was it right from match start?

 

If you could try to reproduce the invisible player bug in a private match with the same players that would be helpful.  This bug has been with us for several games now and we've never been able to isolate the conditions to reproduce it.

 

For other people who are getting the network disconnect icon regularly, we're doing some research into the upload bandwidth usage.  Based on some initial numbers I gathered yesterday from our internal playtests, it looks like we may be exceeding the upload bandwidth of some users who have very limited upstream (such as the fellow with a speedtest of 0.13Mbps upload).

 

While an upload even as low as 0.13Mbps might seem adequate, unfortunately the speedtest bandwidth numbers are not a good reflection of the actual bandwidth between players.  A speedtest tests your connection to a fast local server (or one in a location you choose, but they're always going to be fast servers on a high-speed connection).  During actual gameplay though, you may be connected to a player who is fairly distant to you.  Your upstream bandwidth to this player is likely going to be much less than it is to your local speedtest server.  Because there is a lot of peer-to-peer traffic in The Last of Us, your bandwidth to each player matters.

 

If anyone experiencing the network disconnect icon wants to do some bandwidth testing for us, it would be useful to have some real-world numbers on the bandwidth between players.  To do this you would need to find another player willing to help (probably from your friends list).  First test that you have a ping to this player of 200ms or less (google how to ping an IP from your PC if you need info), then upload a sizable file (5-10 megabytes at least) directly to that player - via FTP or a messaging app that lets you see your upload rate.  Then report back with the ping and upload rate.


I like you. No h0mO.

 

 

(Ok maybe a little bit.)

 

Just curious, what if the ping is a little higher than that. Whether I use my 2/.5 or my 20/20 connection, pings to distant people are always high and quite similar. I get over 20 but not massively, in most cases it goes 220-250 and very rarely if ever 300-350(perhaps seen only once).

 

Will those speedtest/bandwidth test results still be helpful?

 

Also despite getting the plug icon here and there, I've never seen a single invisible player, despite so many others reporting it regularly.

 

 

An example of the lag still faced yesterday, with a 20/20 conection.

_________________________________________________


Last of Us gameplay, Hunting Rifles Headshots , Custom created Game mode videos and MOAR!

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Patch 1.06: Networking Changes Discussions - Part 2

Feb 22, 2014
@newuxtreme At what point does your ping jump up? I've seen your test to close servers, and it looks great. But then you describe 200+ to others. Is that a few hundred miles away or thousands? Maybe a neighboring county has sever network deficiencies and you are constantly being routed through there? I feel bad for ya honestly. 20/20 should be good enough. Except for matches vs South America and other truly long distant connections.
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Naughty Dog Developer
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Re: Patch 1.06: Networking Changes Discussions - Part 2

[ Edited ]
Feb 23, 2014

All players in the match should have a ping of 200ms or better to the host, but the individual connections between players could be greater.  Let's take a worst-case scenario: the host is in Los Angeles and one player is in Toronto and has a ping of 150ms to the host.  Another player is in Recife, Brasil and has a ping of 190ms to the host.  The connection between the player in Toronto and Brasil is going to be >200ms.  This is the worst-case scenario however - matchmaking will always be first looking for hosts that are geographically close to you, and this expands in stages as the search continues.

 

The further worst-case scenario is if a player is behind a strict NAT (type 3). In that case all the traffic from that player will have to be routed through the host and then to all the other players, which will increase the connection time further.

 

newuxtreme: So to answer your question, yes it would still be useful to get some bandwidth tests to players with >200ms ping, although I'm most interested in these tests from players who have a severely limited upstream that may be the cause of those players to getting the network disconnect frequently.  This is a separate case from the lag you showed in your video.

 

And thank you for the video, those are some really bad cases.  The later ones look like the more typical lag - a second or so after you down a player you are receiving that player's damage events to you.  Which is still not good - it means that even if a player is not dropping packets severely enough to cause the lag detect to kick in, their baseline latency is still high enough to cause these double-down situations with over a second between the down events.

 

The first case is much more strange since the player doesn't die when they should but also doesn't appear to be frozen from the lag detect, which should be the only case that would prevent them from going down immediately.  Then when you shoot them again the downed event doesn't come until 11 seconds later.  On Monday I'll talk to our network programmers about these cases.  The delayed-damage / double-down case is the baseline lag we've been struggling with for a long time and isn't something we expected would be solved with the new lag detect threshold that was added in 1.06, but it's obviously still a big issue.  The 11-second delay to down a player is one of the extreme cases that I would have expected the lag detect threshold should be catching but obviously it isn't.

 

BTW did you happen to check the scoreboard during the match and see what the ping bars were on that player?

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