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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 06/21/2013
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Re: Supply/part rebalance suggestion

Aug 22, 2013

sanddude20 wrote:

just think the guy who got the 10 kills probably would've done worse if he didn't have someone keeping him alive/ giving him free stuff.


I've never seen this as being the case.  You can count the total revives, so it's easy to tell when they're actually helping, which is almost never.  Gifts are worth as many parts as a down, and clearly don't add up to being as valuable in most cases.  Heals are nice, but typically unnecessary.  There are enough med kits on maps and in boxes that you can simply heal yourself outside of combat, and INSIDE of combat your teammate could be spending that time firing his gun and actually taking care of the threat instead of sitting next to you holding X and getting free parts.

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Naughty Paw
Registered: 07/23/2012
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Re: Supply/part rebalance suggestion

Aug 22, 2013

so you want the support role to be dead basically, ok

Don't you even! You think you die, and that's that?! Huh?! You think you die an' everything'll be sugar and rainbows?!
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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 06/21/2013
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Re: Supply/part rebalance suggestion

[ Edited ]
Aug 22, 2013

sanddude20 wrote:

so you want the support role to be dead basically, ok


Since kills are what's 100% required to win the game I want them to be the best rewarded.  It makes no sense that they aren't.  I don't mind that they reward support playstyles.  It let's people who aren't that great at getting kills help their team and be rewarded for it.  What I DON'T like is that you get so few parts for doing the heavy lifting and whiping out the enemy team, and so many for playing "support", which is not only extremely easy but often superfluous.  It definitely shouldn't be the only playstyle that allows you to keep up a high population, and right now that's exactly the way it is.

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Naughty Paw
Registered: 07/23/2012
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Re: Supply/part rebalance suggestion

Aug 22, 2013

having a good defence is just as important as a good offense.

Don't you even! You think you die, and that's that?! Huh?! You think you die an' everything'll be sugar and rainbows?!
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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 06/21/2013
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Re: Supply/part rebalance suggestion

[ Edited ]
Aug 22, 2013

sanddude20 wrote:

having a good defence is just as important as a good offense.


Firstly, it really isn't.  No matter how many times you heal your teammates, your team doesn't win if they don't get any kills.  And yet, no matter how many times you die, as long as you outslay the other team, you win.  Second, the support boosters in this game don't add anything to the game that you can't already obtain with ease.  Getting free items from crafter is nice, but a gifted item shouldn't be worth as much as a down, when it likely won't contribute near as much.  Getting healed is nice too, but it's more of a convenience than a necessity.  There are medkits EVERYWHERE on maps, and if you don't have one you're almost guaranteed to get one from a box.  Even if you DO have one, if you open a box while you have damage you'll probably get cans of health.  In combat it might help, but what's the difference between a teammate sitting in cover and healing me while I fire, and him popping up to fire while I use a health kit?

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Naughty Paw
Registered: 07/23/2012
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Re: Supply/part rebalance suggestion

Aug 22, 2013

sounds like you just hate teamwork

Don't you even! You think you die, and that's that?! Huh?! You think you die an' everything'll be sugar and rainbows?!
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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 07/12/2013
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Re: Supply/part rebalance suggestion

Aug 22, 2013

The support part (and crafting part) of this game is what separates it from titles like CoD (where running around and killing everything is the only point of the MP). I think there's a good balance between the rewards you get for being aggressive and getting 10-12 kills a game and being a support who gets 5-8 kills a game but has the same (if not higher) parts total in the end. To make kills worth more than they are now would upset that balance and less and less people would bother running a build that includes reviver/crafter/first aid, which means the game would become more about rushing and spawn killing (CoD) and less like the more tactical MP that the devs are looking for. 

And the winner is!...
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First Son
Registered: 08/19/2013
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Re: Supply/part rebalance suggestion

Aug 22, 2013

PhilZathrill wrote:

The support part (and crafting part) of this game is what separates it from titles like CoD (where running around and killing everything is the only point of the MP). I think there's a good balance between the rewards you get for being aggressive and getting 10-12 kills a game and being a support who gets 5-8 kills a game but has the same (if not higher) parts total in the end. To make kills worth more than they are now would upset that balance and less and less people would bother running a build that includes reviver/crafter/first aid, which means the game would become more about rushing and spawn killing (CoD) and less like the more tactical MP that the devs are looking for. 


The problem is that there is not a working balance as it is now. The worst thing that can happen in a supply raid is that one team gets a clear win. This is why I said that diminishing returns on certain support roles, rebalance the down so that it is dependent on kills, and make sure that if one team wins by a landslide, it counts.

 

My suggestions will leave support roles viable, and I do not suggest any change to the core gameplay. Being a good 4 man group will still be far better than running solo, teamwork will still be required to win, it's just that by doing these changes, the best players will be the most rewarded. Be that a support that revives 10 teammates, gives 8 gifts, and heals everyone, or the guy who secures 10 kills. Right now, only the support will make enough per round to get a high survivor count. 

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Naughty Paw
Registered: 07/23/2012
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Re: Supply/part rebalance suggestion

Aug 22, 2013

The_Funnybear wrote:

PhilZathrill wrote:

The support part (and crafting part) of this game is what separates it from titles like CoD (where running around and killing everything is the only point of the MP). I think there's a good balance between the rewards you get for being aggressive and getting 10-12 kills a game and being a support who gets 5-8 kills a game but has the same (if not higher) parts total in the end. To make kills worth more than they are now would upset that balance and less and less people would bother running a build that includes reviver/crafter/first aid, which means the game would become more about rushing and spawn killing (CoD) and less like the more tactical MP that the devs are looking for. 


The problem is that there is not a working balance as it is now. The worst thing that can happen in a supply raid is that one team gets a clear win. This is why I said that diminishing returns on certain support roles, rebalance the down so that it is dependent on kills, and make sure that if one team wins by a landslide, it counts.

 

My suggestions will leave support roles viable, and I do not suggest any change to the core gameplay. Being a good 4 man group will still be far better than running solo, teamwork will still be required to win, it's just that by doing these changes, the best players will be the most rewarded. Be that a support that revives 10 teammates, gives 8 gifts, and heals everyone, or the guy who secures 10 kills. Right now, only the support will make enough per round to get a high survivor count. 


why shouldn't the guy with 10 revives, 8 gifts and healed everyone get tons of points? He saved the team 10 lives with revives, gave out 8 things that may have resulted in a kill for other players and overall kept them from dying.

Don't you even! You think you die, and that's that?! Huh?! You think you die an' everything'll be sugar and rainbows?!
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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 07/06/2011
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Re: Supply/part rebalance suggestion

[ Edited ]
Aug 22, 2013

The winning team should get bonus points based on how many lives they have left at the end of the match.  At the same time, extra points should be awarded for all players that get kills in a sudden death situation to encourage players to seek each other out instead of simply hiding in a random corner of the map.

 

As it is right now, if a team completely crushes another team, they will not get enough points to reflect their win and will often actually have less points than the losing team simply because they didn't have to heal or revive very often and had less items to craft with.  This is why I say points need to be awarded base on the amount of lives left, that way the team that goes 16 - 0 can get an appropriate amount for thier win. 

 

It's pretty sad that the viable strategy to get a large clan size is to play survivor and actually purposely lose a couple rounds so that you can get more points by crafting, healing, killing a couple people.

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