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Splicer
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Re: Unnecessary nerf to Shivs and why would it need to?

Feb 21, 2014

Bizzerker_Bauer wrote:
Why should it counter spamming melee? And why would it need to? If you can circle away so that you aren't in front of them and they aren't connecting punches why not just gun the down? And if you're out of bullets AND somebody gets the drop on you at melee range why would there be a special magic way to just outright kill them without actually fightng back?

.....let me ask do you think before you speak or just spew out whatever comes to mind?

 

Why should it counter spamming melee? 

-Sure shooting your gun can counter this but if you are in too close proximity it could go against you. Hence avoiding damage and shiving (i repeat...FROM BEHIND SINCE I CANT DO IT IN FRONT OF YOU) is fair. Its like you going behind a person, downing them instantly with an upgraded 2x4 and shooting them dead (albiet 2 seconds longer).

 

And if you're out of bullets AND somebody gets the drop on you at melee range why would there be a special magic way to just outright kill them without actually fightng back?

-*cough* Molotovs do the same thing but no one complains about that *cough*. More to the point if someone gets the drop on you and starts meleeing you....you are screwed either way

 

You literally just argued "button mashing Triangle over Square" over and over again. Only 2 types of people button mash Square: noobs and people with brawler. Furthermore, button mashing Triangle doesn't mean crap because I can't be next to you and shiv you. to shiv 1) you actually need to have a shiv, 2) be behind your target or 3) smoke bomb stun them first. You know what...we should all start a thread saying "Stop letting molotovs kills us when we are shooting/punching our targets." What will be your argument then that molotovs are instant kills? downs with armor? "Oh no why did you throw a molotov 4 feet in front of you when you knew I was melee rushing you!" "Lord can you stop throwing cocktails at my face as I SAR you down its so cheap you kill me from 30ft away!"

 

At this point ND will indeed not do anything to fix this nerf but all you idiots arguing the nerf is fair have no valid argument at all

 

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Unnecessary nerf to Shivs

Feb 21, 2014
Here, I'll copy and paste what I posted in another thread.

"It makes absolute sense that you wouldn't be able to shiv somebody unless they weren't able to defend themselves. In this game, that would mean either because they were stunned by a smokebomb or they couldn't see you. It makes no sense at all that you'd simply be able to sprint behind somebody, grab them, and knife them without them being able to resist, especially if they're already shooting/meleeing you.

Also, with the mechanics of shiving in this game it makes absolute sense to limit its use. There's no attack to land, no timing your attempt, no animation to limit how often you can try. Just mashing triangle as fast as you can in hopes that it'll let you autokill the guy you're running at."
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Splicer
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Re: Unnecessary nerf to Shivs

Feb 21, 2014

Bizzerker_Bauer wrote:
Here, I'll copy and paste what I posted in another thread.

"It makes absolute sense that you wouldn't be able to shiv somebody unless they weren't able to defend themselves. In this game, that would mean either because they were stunned by a smokebomb or they couldn't see you. It makes no sense at all that you'd simply be able to sprint behind somebody, grab them, and knife them without them being able to resist, especially if they're already shooting/meleeing you.

Also, with the mechanics of shiving in this game it makes absolute sense to limit its use. There's no attack to land, no timing your attempt, no animation to limit how often you can try. Just mashing triangle as fast as you can in hopes that it'll let you autokill the guy you're running at."

no one mashes triangle. do you not understand that for the shiv to work I have to be behind you first none-the-less. If I am spamming triangle that doesnt NOTHING AT ALL. you are equating meleeing with shiv dancing which is not the thing at all. "no animation to limit how often you can try" now THIS just PROVES you are talking nonsense...no point in me going further on this. Yes it is mainly a stealth kill hence smokbomb or sneaky tactics....but in the 2 clearest examples if your survival in the game means getting behind someone to shiv them then so be it. If you end up in a melee situation with an enemy and you dont have brawler or they have a melee weapon, then go shiv them.  FFS no one is saying shiv dancing occurred 24/7 just when the opportunity arose. 

 

but its okay man cause aim&shoot or melee mashing takes so much more timing and skill right? if i dont get behind you in that small window of time that you are punching me I literally circling you like an idiot giving more time for 1) you to down me, 2) your teammates to down me, or 3) you to run off.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Unnecessary nerf to Shivs

Feb 21, 2014
In what way does it make sense that you'd be able to just grab somebody and knife them in the kneck while they're actively engaging you? You neglected to adress the entire first half of the post.

Also, How does it prove I'm talking nonsense? It's 100% accurate. There is literally no animation at all limiting your attempts, no attack to evade. In most games a backstab is tied to melee, so that a failure to backstab results in a regular melee attack, which may or may not hit. This means that if you fail in attempt you have to finish the animation instead of just spamming the button in hopes of it working. That's not how it works in this game, which is, IMO, a huge part of why this is even remotely possible to pull off.
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Splicer
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Re: Unnecessary nerf to Shivs

Feb 21, 2014

 


Bizzerker_Bauer wrote:
In what way does it make sense that you'd be able to just grab somebody and knife them in the kneck while they're actively engaging you? You neglected to adress the entire first half of the post.

Also, How does it prove I'm talking nonsense? It's 100% accurate. There is literally no animation at all limiting your attempts, no attack to evade. In most games a backstab is tied to melee, so that a failure to backstab results in a regular melee attack, which may or may not hit. This means that if you fail in attempt you have to finish the animation instead of just spamming the button in hopes of it working. That's not how it works in this game, which is, IMO, a huge part of why this is even remotely possible to pull off.

Bro....in a melee situation following through with your punches and melee weapons ALWAYS stopped the shiv. you are keep punching in a single direction of course you are screwed. you seem to think the moment someone start moving they are gonna shiv you. Whenever a 2x4 goes against a shiv dance the2x4 ALWAYS wins and the shiv is there neckless. beside you are missing a HUGE factor when shivs are involved...the animation of the killing leaves you COMPLETELY open similar to a special execution.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Unnecessary nerf to Shivs

Feb 21, 2014
I'm not getting what you're trying to say? Are you saying that melee always wins against a shiv attempt? Because I'm pretty sure that's how people originally used it was as a way to kill enemies in melee combat. It's also how this back and forth got started in the first place. Either way it doesn't adress anything I've said.

As to the animation, it's nowhere near as long a/ an execution, and you have their body for cover for most of it. It's also completely irrelevant as to whether or not it's a BS tactic, because the person you're using it against is already dead. At that point whether you live or die is almost completely irrelevant. You've already gotten your point.

Really what this is looking like is people basically wanting their shiv to work as an upgraded 2x4, except one that just kills insead of downs. It definitely shouldn't work this way, and it makes sense that it was changed.
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Wastelander
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Re: Unnecessary nerf to Shivs

Feb 21, 2014
I don't know the experience of others, but I did not spam the triangle button in hopes of getting a shiv. Spamming the triangle limited my movement and made me more prone to get myself killed in the process. I actually got behind my opponent and shived him.

You made a valid point about stabs being tied up to melee in most games, but I see your "no animation limit to stop you" point as not reason enough to remove this. It's true that you didn't have a window limit to perform this move, but the longer you kept trying it against your opponent, the more at risk you were of getting killed. The window for the prompt is small and like I said before, spamming triangle won't work against people that knew how to counter it.

It's like as if you see the person running towards you and you think it's an auto-win against you, when in fact it's not.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Unnecessary nerf to Shivs

Feb 21, 2014
I won't argue that you aren't EXPOSED while trying it, but that's not the point. If it was a melee attack and you missed you wouldn't just be exposed, you'd be completely helpless, and you probably wouldn't get to try it again before you died. As it is you get to try as often as you can hit triangle.

It's been an autokill every time it's been tried against me, at least as far as I know. It totals up to like 6 or 7 kills against me. But, then, nobody has ever gotten behind me as a result. I can't really speak to its effectiveness when it's used legitimately, and I really might not even care if it weren't for lag. But I got shived from the front enough times that I actual broke my controller to pieces and quit playing for a few weeks. Situations where I had an enemy dead to rights, and all they had to do was sprint at me and mash triangle, and there literally wasn't a **bleep** thing I could do about it. I'm certainly not going to miss that.
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Splicer
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Re: Unnecessary nerf to Shivs

Feb 21, 2014
Nerfing the dance shiv promotes the use of brawler and now you have groups of people straight up running towards you trying brawl until death comes which absolutely requires no skill. I say we protest to bring the dance shiv back!
Got skills?
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Sackboy
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Re: Unnecessary nerf to Shivs

Feb 21, 2014

Is that thing actually in effect ?

 

Dude threw a smoke at me in a match, just before it took effect i shot the guy, blasting his armor off and it didn't delay the shiv one bit, he just straight rushed and shived me.

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