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Big Daddy
Registered: 01/08/2010
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Re: Wow, told you so...

Nov 25, 2013
Lot of people in here haven't grasped the real intent behind the welfare system.

Until they do, they will continue to founder off the shore of fulfillment.



The Biggest Lies

5.) The hats aren't the surprise.
4.) Mods knows what they're doing.
3.) It doesn't fit the world paradigm.
2.) I'm not in it for the money.
1.) The player pool will be consolidated.


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Wastelander
Registered: 10/18/2010
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Re: Wow, told you so...

Nov 25, 2013

Wow...another thread about the handicap system…sigh.

 

I firmly believe the handicap system has not been the deciding factor (win/loss) in any of the matches I’ve played.  Rather, the difference (in any match, handicap system or no) is usually one of following the three things:

 

  1. The other team is simply better than us…so we would have lost anyway.
  2. At some point during the match, our team loses its cohesion and the other team is able to capitalize.  We lose…our fault for not sticking to our game plan.
  3. Some (rarely, all) members of the other team quit and are replaced by better (often much better) players than those that quit.  We would have lost anyway because in the end, this is really a variation of 1 (except we didn’t have to play the whole match against a better team).

I truly feel that TLOU was designed to be team oriented with much less emphasis on individual achievement.  I humbly submit that for the way TLOU was designed, the relevant stat is your Win/Loss ratio not your Downs/Executions OR your K/D ratio.  I also believe that if you focus on winning first, K/D or D/E ratios will follow (they may not be as high as you’d like but thems the breaks).

 

Fundamentally, TLOU is a different game and the design itself (no true climbing , no rolling and a disincentive to run) suggests strongly to me that it was intended to be played at a slower, more deliberate pace.  I can think of no other reason than gaming style to explain why a more skilled group of players consistently loses when the handicap system kicks into play.

 

As a supporter of the handicap system, some would conclude that I suck at the game so I see nothing wrong with a system that benefits me, provides no incentive to improve and in fact rewards me for being a poor player…I think this is uncharitable, to say the least.

 

I think whether I’m highly skilled or not (in an absolute sense) is immaterial to the question at hand.  For me, it’s the relative skill of our team versus our opponents that is important and regardless of my skill level, I’m aware and knowledgeable enough about the game to make a judgment about that (namely, whether the other team is less skilled than us, about the same or more skilled).  To suggest anything else, I find insulting.

 

Now, having said all this, if the handicap system is the deciding factor in matches where a skilled team consistently loses to a less skilled (or even mediocre) team and gaming style is NOT a factor (as in, the more skilled players are cooperating well), then I’d certainly agree that such a system needs tweaking.  However, I am firmly against it being removed entirely.

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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 06/21/2013
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Re: Wow, told you so...

Nov 25, 2013
Don't have time to post much atm, but scoot, could you ease enlighten us as to the true purpose of the welfare system?

And to whoever said that crafter helps mitigate the penalty to the winning team...it really doesn't. When you get one material, the same material, each box, 6 boxes in a row, you're not going to be crafting anything. The enemy team, on the other hand, is probably crafting twice per box, meaning an extrafree crafted item in addition to the ones they make.
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Big Daddy
Registered: 01/08/2010
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Re: Wow, told you so...

Nov 25, 2013
The purpose of the welfare system is to ease the difficulty for casual players. To keep them playing, longer, to keep then interested in the product and its dlc, and microtransactions.

Nothing weeds out casuals like constant losing, and the feeling they have no chance. I believe this is also why we finally got a no party mode.

Just like all those casual-friendly aspects of uncharted 3, such as power plays, noob boosters and kick backs.

Just like easing the ping restrictions in an early update: keep the player pool larger, by whatever means.



The Biggest Lies

5.) The hats aren't the surprise.
4.) Mods knows what they're doing.
3.) It doesn't fit the world paradigm.
2.) I'm not in it for the money.
1.) The player pool will be consolidated.


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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 06/21/2013
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Re: Wow, told you so...

Nov 25, 2013
And I wouldn't mind features that truely kept more casual players interested. The UC3 power plays actually made things interesting for both sides. I wouldn't mind something like extra bullets, an extra material, an OCCASIONAL +100 parts, or even a full on weapon upgrade. The bottomless arsenal of bombs, on the other hand, isn't fun. Apparently nobody else has had the pleasure of playing games where you'll see over a dozen each of planted bombs thrown molotovs from the other team throughout the course of the game, but it's just nit enjoyable at that point.
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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 07/23/2012
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Re: Wow, told you so...

Nov 25, 2013

Still doesn't make sense that they simultaneously help the losing team and take away from the winning team. One or the other, but not both, and the gap on which it happens (which is like 2 kills) needs to be bigger

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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 09/06/2012
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Re: Wow, told you so...

[ Edited ]
Nov 25, 2013

As a proponet against the welfare system, I will say good well thought out post captainproduce.

My gripe, like I said many times isnt just the welfare system it self but what the crates give to who.

You can even go into customs and see with out a single kill one team can be getting molotovs while the other isnt.
You can even see it with team mates.
Health packs arent the only thing that you get that some one else doesnt.

I shoot you first, I die= you lag. Vice versa not applicable.
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Big Daddy
Registered: 01/08/2010
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Re: Wow, told you so...

Nov 25, 2013
Well, pretty sure not a one of you are privy to retention numbers.



The Biggest Lies

5.) The hats aren't the surprise.
4.) Mods knows what they're doing.
3.) It doesn't fit the world paradigm.
2.) I'm not in it for the money.
1.) The player pool will be consolidated.


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Wastelander
Registered: 12/28/2011
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Re: Wow, told you so...

Nov 26, 2013
No one said anything about the system being a deciding factor when both teams have a discernible skill gap. The problem lies when both teams are pretty much EQUAL skill wise.

It does make a difference, and even more so if those players keep spamming bombs using EE2; This is something that's more of a factor on CQC maps.
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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 08/09/2013
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Re: Wow, told you so...

Nov 26, 2013

YellowHamma13 wrote:
I said months aight out guys had catered to call of duty players... Now all that's online is foreigners and your multiplayer is still crap haha. Pity parts galore! Yay, all the rush **bleep** you catered to are on COD or PS4 and we are left with this garbage. Nothing like being punished for NOT dying... In a SURVIVAL GAME LOL

just thought I'd tell you all "I told you so!"

P.S. Just played my first few matches in weeks... Did well, but lost a match on the welfare system. My team was up 15-2, I was 9-1...

They started spawning with shotguns and molotovs, bombs out the wazoo... We lost 2-0. Yes, pity parts swung the game THAT much... Played on Dam, so no option to avoid the close quarters and I was getting one item, unusable of course, in every bin. So we were being bombarded by pity parts and weapons we had no access to.

I friended them afterwards... They suck. Add their four KDR up and it's barely above my 3.6... They're awful and yes your game is ruined. Kept it thinking maybe, just maybe after all the COD players left it would be redeemed, but nope. It's just as bad as usual. I used to play for hours every night in the Summer, now twenty minutes is more than I can stomach.

i meet new players from US/Canda almost daily on MP

 

if ur team was that far ahead the welfare system shouldnt of mattered u shoulda still won... thats your problem not the games

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