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Monster Hunter
Registered: 03/25/2012
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Re: Twisted Metal - patch update 8/9/12

Aug 11, 2012

Was that directed at me?

 

If it was, all I'm saying is JYD is harder to control compared to Shadow.

 

I don't know how anyone can argue that  unless one felt a car handled so well that it was unplayable, unnatural, unmanageable or in comparison, overwelming to the rest of the vehicle roster .

 

Boston Apu was knocking you, saying you were biased and you "forgot to mention" Shadow is "100xs more difficult to control than Jyd"

 

What he said HAS TO BE  a joke, because if you can't control a Shadow with its faster turning speed and reverse/forward response, then you certainly would have to argue that Axel, Crimson, Kami, Roadkill or Death Warrant are harder to control than JyD as well, being that their controls are more "responsive", or quicker for lack of a better word, than Shadow's.

 

 

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First Son
Registered: 03/04/2012
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Re: Twisted Metal - patch update 8/9/12

Aug 11, 2012
The Meat Wagon alt special is basically useless now unless you go park on a rooftop (hopefully no fliers in game) and rain it down. Medium range use is just foolish as you won't get back in time to defend yourself.

I really don't get why this was implemented unless it's some sort of memory optimization thing. I though the reason Vermin was that way was so that they didn't have to keep the route back to him in memory. Jaffe mentioned the actual reason in one of his video blogs.
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Wastelander
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Re: Twisted Metal - patch update 8/9/12

[ Edited ]
Aug 11, 2012

Arzharkhel wrote:
Crimson Fury's flamethrower is broken on nuke, I've done a lot of it and trust me it's a game changer, among other things. There's nothing to improve on him besides his energy regen and maybe his shockwave, which by the way can also be used to set up power missiles. He's the perfect hit and run vehicle, if you've got the right pick ups you can do real damage.

It's hard to win with CF yes, but it can be done. I've won DM's, TDM and hunted games with him, not to mention guy's like Andy that make this thing seem like a toy to use.

Even though it's possible to do well with Crimson that doesn't make him not underpowered. You can deal out damage way faster and survive longer in other vehicles.


I'm not a nuke player so I can't comment on how OP he is in that particular mode, I believe you though. But his specials in any other mode are pretty underwhelming. His flamethrower tracks really slow and you have to be close range in the fight to even use it making your super fragile car vulnerable.

 

I just don't think he has the raw stats to keep up with other vehicles as far as damage output and survival goes. Bump up his hp to 130-140 or something to make him more viable.

 

Switching vehicle subjects: JYD needs to get hit with an HP nerf and/or maybe a little freeze tapout nerf. That car can brawl like no other and has crazy ramming power.

 

-Talon/Sweet Bot mega gun nerf (50% damage nerf))

 

-Reaper could use another 20hp IMO

 

-Shadow special radius nerf

 

-Death Warrant feels like the inferior version of Roadkill to me, fix that.

 

-Kamikaze has the same problems as Crimson.

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Wastelander
Registered: 12/28/2011
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Re: Twisted Metal - patch update 8/9/12

Aug 11, 2012
A Vehicle being underpowered does not warrant a buff, changing every vehicle to fit the needs of every player is needless IMO. Crimson's flamethrower does a ton of damage but as it has been said before the tracking it's difficult to handle, not to mention it also puts him at risk, which is why it should be used as a finisher. The shockwave is good to go into groups of already weakened players and finish people off to help him get into a killstreak.

His specialty lies in his mobility, drive fast in and out. You can pick up powers, swarmers, stalkers, etc and wreak havoc. He sure can get the damage in as fast as anyone (considering he has the speed to get to the pick ups faster than anyone) he just doesn't have the survivability that other vehicles have, which is what most players have a problem with.

Btw I fail to see how KK has the same problem as Crimson considering he has more health and an AOE freeze shockwave. I would be more scared of a good KK than a DW for example.
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Wastelander
Registered: 05/17/2012
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Re: Twisted Metal - patch update 8/9/12

Aug 11, 2012

I'm not sure about any changes to Reaper. He seems good as he is, any adjustments will either overpower or underpower him. His health is low for reason and is so tiny and fast that most good players with him rarely get hit anyway.

 

Kamikazi I think is pretty balanced as he is. Decent health for being the 2nd fastest car and his alt special makes him able to do some amazing combos. Unlike Crimson, there are plenty of dominating Kamikazi players around.

 

I use Roadkill, but not much Death Warrent. I'm not sure on that opinion really. Bit I've used of Death Warrent he seems good and perhaps the most honest reflection of the player's skill. Good handling, health and speed. His only drawback is his specials are underwhelming, but still quite usefull. Roadkill on the other hand is like DW but fragile with good specials. I'm not sure you can change anything on either of these cars with out making them overpowered or underpowered.



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Wastelander
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Re: Twisted Metal - patch update 8/9/12

[ Edited ]
Aug 11, 2012

I've yet to ever feel threatened by someone playing a Kamikaze or Crimson. Whenever I try playing those 2 vehicles the shockwaves never even register even when I'm clearly right next to someone.

 

Just sayin. I just find them to be really weak **bleep** cars. They're almost free kills.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Twisted Metal - patch update 8/9/12

Aug 11, 2012

Fuzzy_Skinner wrote:

Thank you for the update. It's nice to know this game hasn't been forgotten about.

Hopefully we will continue to see updates and possibly some DLC (crosses fingers).

As for some fine tuning on balace issues here is my two cents.

 

First of all it seems a couple of the posters in this topic just want the game to favor Reaper more by reducing freeze kick out on cars who are already weak (Crimson Fury) or taking away the only real effective offense against a good Reaper player (DW, Outlaw and RK's lock on specials). I'm fine with fixing glitches (like CF flame going through walls) but most these cars complained about are actually the most balanced choices in the game as they are. Removing the lock on for their specials would make them useless (maybe that's what some people want).

Anyway, I think some more legit balancing would be as followed.

 

Shadow: His special is too powerful, either lower damage or blast radius.

 

JYD: Stat wise this guy is just too beast. Lower healing ability, longer freeze recovery and possibly lower speed/handling. Something needs to change with him. Most ranked DM games are often won by a JYD player regardless of skill values.

 

Talon: Someone else said it and I agree, just remove him from ranked play.

 

Sweet Tooth: Lower the damage or lock on of the mega guns while in flight, something. Possibly even x2 damage to ST's in bot mode or x3 turbo consumption.

 

Crimson Fury: He is too weak, I'd even say the weakest choice in the game. Maybe a little more health and improve specials. More damage for alt special, maybe better lock on for main special. Also some improved ram damage to improve his effective combo ability. Perhaps improve his energy regeneration rate too.

 

Vermin: Someone else said it and I agree, more health. His alt special, which should be the primary reason to use him, leaves him exposed. He needs good health to counter balance this weakness.

 

Everyone else seems fine as they are and fairly balanced. I don't use MW so not sure if the latest update is a serious nerf, but if most the community thinks so I agree. MW I've always considered one of the more balanced choices as is.

 

 

EDIT: Oh, I also agree about the Remote Bombs. These things are glitchy and their lock on is absurd considering the concept of the weapon. As for killsteaks they need to be tweeked as well. I'm all for rewarding players for a steak but as it is right now the bonuses are out of controll. Many of the already suggested fixes are a good idea.


I really hate to do this, but let's start with introducing who you are. Because I'm not sure you read the official post I had, or you're simply not aware of what it's talking about. 

 

Let's start with the freeze tapout of CF. There is a concept called lag. It does exist. CF is the fastest VEHICLE in the game and CAN DODGE those freezes. It was CAPABLE of tapping out as fast as ever if the player was able to do so. Prior to the patch, there were few CF players that were actually good at using the vehicle and they simply played the vehicle to their strengths. The only few that even asked for the freeze tap out rate were players that simply weren't good at freeze avoidance and typically got frozen and killed for playing the vehicle the wrong way. 

 

If your vehicle has the means to avoid the freeze, then simply improve your ability to do so. If your vehicle LAGS the most, then why on earth would you not allow a measure to force such a "potential" cheap tactic to not be abused. If a CF lags and is frozen (NOW), you have literally no chance to respond to it. This isn't only for Reapers, by the way, it is for any player that tries to fight a lagging Crimson Fury. 

 

If you're not good at the vehicle, then simply don't use it. Crimson Fury is one of the hardest vehicles in the game to play, and those buffs were unnecessary since prior to the patch there did exist great Crimsons that had no issue with the vehicle. They simply played it the right way.

 

This "good" Reaper should be killed 100% by a special? Are you serious? So if this "good" player developed such a high skill set that he could avoid a special that you herp derp around causually, you want to make it where he can't win at all and give the other player aim assist to always win? That's silly! That makes Reaper, Crimson, and any other vehicle dead. Second, I'm not saying "remove auto-aim" on those attacks, I'm saying tone it down to the level of Darkside's where you can dodge it. And yes, this is a big deal because if you actually do a limited specials only game, and have a Roadkill in there, chances are the Roadkill will earn mega guns and be on a high kill streak spamming those all game long. He'll be impossible to kill. The Reaper will not be powerful because the Reaper needs "skill" to compete against other vehicles and actually has to aim and ready his shot and all that. Which, as a Reaper player, it's not as easy as it sounds. Furthermore, the Reaper's attack IS 100% avoidable if you jump over it. Roadkill's is not avoidable at all. So, please explain how this is balanced? Is the Reaper's only chance to win is to run away and hide? No, sorry that makes little chance and proves the vehicle is overpowered. And in addition, the effort needed to use the Blood Missiles and other attacks that spam auto-aim will be higher, therefore, the skill required to play the game will improve and this means that the vehicles will be balanced. It doesn't mean that this is going to create a situation where the RKs, Outlaws, and DWs as well as other vehicles cannot hit a Juggernaut. Darkside can hit any vehicle that isn't Reaper, Crimson, Kamikaze, and sometimes Axel and such. Darkside's not overpowered in those fights because the other vehicles have the armor and damage ouput to kill, but don't need a 100% homing to hit the big slug. See the point of allowing Reapers, Crimsons, and Kamikaze to be able to avoid the blood missiles if they're good enough? 

 

And just to tell you, you can easily kill Reapers using blast radius skill attacks. You can even use better offensive abilities to hit Reapers. Rather than use a crutch, why not just improve your ability to play the game and target a Reaper's weakness? What you claimed about "superior Reapers" is simply your inability to play at the same level as they are playing. And trust me, there are VERY few good Reapers in this game that will actually be capable of dodging such attacks. 

 

Talon removed means people cannot get trophies. 

 

Now, let's bring up the Crimson Fury again. Remember my example up there with the Roadkill and Reaper stuff? Well, let's ask ourselves one quesiton: ARE YOU ANY GOOD AT THE GAME WITH THIS VEHICLE? If you answered "No!" like I did, then please DO NOT demand buffs becasue you're not good at that vehicle. Are you supposed to be good with him just because you play the game? No. Is there a thing called "perference" in this game? Yes. Here's the truth. I've seen many good and even great Crimson Fury players in the game all the way through its lifespan. They've very very good at the game with it because they can use the vehicle's speed effectively and can control it. In other words, they put in a lot more effort than you and took the time needed to master it. They don't cry about buffs because they win just as easily as ever and can do what they want. Those good players with this vehicle will instill fear into you simply because they're almost impossible to hit and will run all over you. Again, like before, you're being biased. Your desire to increase unneeded buffs will break the balance. The balance should not attempt to fix the game this way. That's fruitless. You simply have to find ways to utilize the vehicles better. As for a way to improve CF, I'd say allow it the chance to have 4 super mines rather than 2. It can now perform a freeze + power missile + drive underneath a vehicle and lay a supermine down so that the vehicle drops onto it + rear fire shotgun combo to deal a heavy hit damage. If a good player can aim the power without a freeze, then that player can do this 115 damage combo (power + super mine) 4 times in a row. This will improve a Crimson Fury without bringing up balance issues. 

 

Vermin is the same. He's not in need of a buff. Here's the thing. Vermin CAN fire a  rat rocket and then use a shield that lasts through the whole special duration to NOT take any damage at all while flying the rocket. This means, he covers his own weakness. This tactic can be very strong and allows Vermin to fight higher armored vehicles. Giving him more HP will make him more powerful and more likely to have a huge advantage relying on this tactic. I do think that with this tactic, and if you use it at the right time, you have a vehicle that's very strong. If anything, this tactic may be too strong against bigger vehicles, but the control to do it isn't that simple, so it may not overpower things. 

 

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Twisted Metal - patch update 8/9/12

Aug 11, 2012

jobjobplayrough wrote:

Vad would you stop calling people out saying they need to learn the Mechanics of this game. You are not the official balance guy of this game, hey I highly Doubt Jaffe would listen to you much anyway considering what he thought about your no health idea.

 

You are wrong about shadow taking more Idiot Damage then what he gives out, it is exactly the same!!

 

Call me what you will, but I also have this Game and can also test things out just as you can.

 

O and Vad you also do not represent the entire communities wishes, nor do mine. Buts lets try and be civil and discuss what we feel need to balanced and not but down others for voicing their opinions. For their Opinions are just as valid as yours!!

 


The thing that makes me have to do this is because you're not really addressing the game's flaws and balance problems. You're simply attempting to mask those problems with a quick fix. That's not good enough for me. Hopefully, you agree too. 

 

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Twisted Metal - patch update 8/9/12

Aug 11, 2012
The problem with CF being buffed is it would give skilled players who know how to use him an unfair advantage. The people who think he needs a buff outside of maybe energy regain just don't know how to drive him. He's not meant to be a head on stay and fight car. If that's your style just pick another vehicle.

And plat look at the people who responded. No one said anything close to what you proposed. If your expecting changes like that its probably good the MW thing happened now. It'll prepare you for the disappointment your about to encounter.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Twisted Metal - patch update 8/9/12

Aug 11, 2012

Fuzzy_Skinner wrote:

I said maybe on the improved lock on, I still don't think it's that much of a issue though either way. Much rather his alt be improved.

 

Any game with multiple choices someone comes along and says something like "if a player is good enough he can win with this". I find this a very poor argument simply because with enough of a gap in skill between players this will always be the case no matter how powerful the novice player's choice is and how weak the expert player's choice is.

 

I've played this game for a while now and I can't recall a single DM game where a Crimson Fury was at the top of the score board. Before you say it, yes I've played with many top players too. The only real complaint I hear about Crimson Fury is in Nuke and even though I don't often play nuke I've rarely seen it as a game breaking car even then.

I think there is an obvious reason why so few players, both with high and low skill use this car. It's next to useless in most cases. He is basicly a nerfed Kamikazi.


And you have to ask yourself the following:

- What car did win majority of the time? Shouldn't you bring that MOFO down a notch? Yes you should, as CF can win if the skill is there, not because it needs supermanian powers. 

- Why aren't "top" players not able to win using CF? Maybe because they suck with him? If you consider me a top player, I know that I'm not good at all with CF, but can roll out a good rotation with other vehicles and win games using them. Do I think CF needs buffs? No. I've played one on one against Robinnio and Andy_French and I've seen how they use them, so it's simply a thing about comfort driving the thing (which I'm not able to since I've used Reaper too long) and playing style (which isn't the same as my main one). 

 

So rather than ask to "buff" something, maybe you should nerf the Shadows, JYDs, Roadkills, and other powerhouses that dominate the DM scene first. And I also think that top Crimson Fury players would have won the DMs because they would earn their streak and then just go around at supersonic speed power missile ramming people and shooting swarms stalkers as well as firing that flamethrower + red mega guns to kill off people after people without really being hit or seen at all. This was what Crimson players did before any patch anyway. 

 

And he's not a nerfed Kamikaze. CF is in many ways superior to Kamikaze, except in one aspect: teamwork. 

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