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Aug 20 2012
By: Aureilia Welcoming Committee 12610 posts
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Balance Overhaul. Fairness / Boring / Balanced or Fun?

[ Edited ]
63 replies 615 views Edited Aug 20, 2012

Maybe what we currently have is the most balanced we could have. But unfortunately that does not make it any less frustrating, I've been more and more frustrated since the patch appeared. I unfortunately haven't seen much to be that positive about.

 

The G-MAL has been nerfed in the complete wrong way. It's still easy to get a kill or two with, It just has motion sickness recoil on it. All it really does is make my head hurt watching it bounce around. This was the wrong thing to do.

 

I'll acknowledge the G-MAL's dominance, but why nerf everything that is deemed dominant? Why not just BUFF everything else in line with it? By nerfing something else will always take it's place. Always.

 

I really don't think balance is having a two shot kill weapon in your loadout, use your recoil card as much as you want, all the weapons have recoil. The Dragon is not alone. So your options now are. Use guns that have like 7-10 shots with recoil or use one with 2? It appears to be a no brainer actually, no wonder i'm seeing an increase in this activity. The alternative is akin to 1.00 and just don't aim at all. Not shocked to be seeing more KAL 7 activity either.

 

But wait, We have KAL 7's now and the G-MAL was the weapon of choice to have stopping power which stopped them from being hugely effective. That was nerfed but the G-MAL was still good enough so I guess people didn't all migrate.

 

So we are left with what most people are calling balanced, the more I think about it. That means 1.00 was the most balanced this game ever was. Right now it's pretty similar to that except rather than having G-MAL's you have Snipers instead.

 

I completely disagree of course because I don't think balance can actually be called balance if fun is the sacrificial lamb of it all. Sure maybe the weapons on paper cancel each other out, but that doesn't create a fun, enjoyable game.

 

What happens when two teams select the Dragon? ... LOL Two teams, not moving, waiting for the other to move.

 

Worst case scenario I've seen a bit of is two players or mroe selecting KAL-7.. With ROF. Hell it's pretty bad again without it now. I'll whip out my G-MAL.. Oh wait, it's bouncing off them while they have auto aim.... Zig Zag Zig Zag, Free kill, Rinse repeat, free wins.

 

Dragon Sniper simply needs loadout removal or.... All the other weapons to be drastically improved to be in line with it, a two shot kill weapon in the loadout which you admittedly have to aim and isn't that easy for some people, but combatting those who can use it.. LOL you may aswell just quit. You have a 7-10 shot weapon because you can't use the dragon effectively which considering is now at distance and has recoil will probably take about 9 seconds to kill. and they have something that can kill in 4 seconds, 2 if they have a certain booster equipped.Sorry that isn't balanced as much as people want to believe it is.

 

No I don't agree with nerfing the Dragon despite my lothing of it, I've watched this place beg for nerf after nerf and get absolutely nowhere except further from the ideal game.

 

The current options are either nerfing the KAL-7, Removing the Dragon from the loadout or...

 

Actually changing the thought process, balancing weapons by IMPROVING them and not making them worse and worse. This has taken us backwards. I remember playing in November. I enjoyed November a lot, it **bleep** me off to no end though. This current state unfortunately feels exactly the same. Can't say I've felt like this since that time. It's getting old fast too, while there was a little variety before, I'm seeing absolutely none right now. It's gone from fun, to meh, "It'll do"



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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Balance Overhaul. Fairness / Boring / Balanced or Fun?

[ Edited ]
Aug 20, 2012

Reason not to buff everything else to be in line with it is because then we have everyone dying at faster rates and this game ends up like UC2 post the damage patch, all over again.

Nerfing is better than buffing in a game where high-health / low bullet damage benefits the games mechanics.

Not sure why you're complaining about the dragon. It's not that good, not at all. Using it drastically reduces your vision and capability in close quarters, even if you are good with it you make significant sacrifices to do so. That said none of the best players seem to opt for this weapon as their preference. It's not overpowered, and it's not having a negative impact on the game, not at all.

Furthermore I'm not sure where you got the idea that 'this place begged' for a nerf of the dragon. Didn't happen. Only some randoms come alone, with obscure complaints. It's never been the communities focus of complaints.

The GMAL nerf was wrong, correct. For one they left aim assist on un-scoped view so that's interesting, because anyone wanting to use the aim assist can just not scope in. So in CQC, where people are liable to use unscoped view, it's still incredibly assisted. Second, it does feel like it has bit too much recoil and it's not that fun to be constantly fighting that every time I fire off a burst. Not hard to use though just a bit annoying.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Balance Overhaul. Fairness / Boring / Balanced or Fun?

Aug 20, 2012

I agree with your last paragraph. This multiplayer used to be a lot of fun until they nerfed the hell out of everything. After 1.13 many of my friends have left saying that these nerfs are stupid and they have all migrated to other shooters. I'm sorry but nearly all of this community has spoiled the multiplayer with their constant whining even after so many nerfs. Especially the G-mal which took 3 nerfs and still hasn't calmed people down. Pathetic really.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Balance Overhaul. Fairness / Boring / Balanced or Fun?

[ Edited ]
Aug 20, 2012

DS is the hardest weapon to use in this game. It requires some actual skill to use it, and that is why you don't see everyone using it. Only those who really want to improve their game will choose DS.

 

- It has the highest recoil

- Slowest aiming camera movement ( you can't even track a person sprinting with a DS)

- Only 20 bullets as AMMO ( so one has to use every bullet very wisely)

- The worst BF accuracy (inc side weapons),

- aims right into the full scope, making you blind to all your surroundings, therefore one cannot keep aiming for more than 3 seconds at a stretch

-No aim of getting into CQC

 

and so manyy moree.....

 

If someone is killing you with a sniper, then that means that he has worked hard to get better at this stupid, frustrating, laggy A$$ game, it does not mean that he has an OP weapon (unlike the case that was with GMAL and now with M9-ROF).

 

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: Balance Overhaul. Fairness / Boring / Balanced or Fun?

Aug 20, 2012

Aureilia wrote:

Maybe what we currently have is the most balanced we could have. But unfortunately that does not make it any less frustrating, I've been more and more frustrated since the patch appeared. I unfortunately haven't seen much to be that positive about.

 

The G-MAL has been nerfed in the complete wrong way. It's still easy to get a kill or two with, It just has motion sickness recoil on it. All it really does is make my head hurt watching it bounce around. This was the wrong thing to do.

 

I'll acknowledge the G-MAL's dominance, but why nerf everything that is deemed dominant? Why not just BUFF everything else in line with it? By nerfing something else will always take it's place. Always.

 

I really don't think balance is having a two shot kill weapon in your loadout, use your recoil card as much as you want, all the weapons have recoil. The Dragon is not alone. So your options now are. Use guns that have like 7-10 shots with recoil or use one with 2? It appears to be a no brainer actually, no wonder i'm seeing an increase in this activity. The alternative is akin to 1.00 and just don't aim at all. Not shocked to be seeing more KAL 7 activity either.

 

But wait, We have KAL 7's now and the G-MAL was the weapon of choice to have stopping power which stopped them from being hugely effective. That was nerfed but the G-MAL was still good enough so I guess people didn't all migrate.

 

So we are left with what most people are calling balanced, the more I think about it. That means 1.00 was the most balanced this game ever was. Right now it's pretty similar to that except rather than having G-MAL's you have Snipers instead.

 

I completely disagree of course because I don't think balance can actually be called balance if fun is the sacrificial lamb of it all. Sure maybe the weapons on paper cancel each other out, but that doesn't create a fun, enjoyable game.

 

What happens when two teams select the Dragon? ... LOL Two teams, not moving, waiting for the other to move.

 

Worst case scenario I've seen a bit of is two players or mroe selecting KAL-7.. With ROF. Hell it's pretty bad again without it now. I'll whip out my G-MAL.. Oh wait, it's bouncing off them while they have auto aim.... Zig Zag Zig Zag, Free kill, Rinse repeat, free wins.

 

Dragon Sniper simply needs loadout removal or.... All the other weapons to be drastically improved to be in line with it, a two shot kill weapon in the loadout which you admittedly have to aim and isn't that easy for some people, but combatting those who can use it.. LOL you may aswell just quit. You have a 7-10 shot weapon because you can't use the dragon effectively which considering is now at distance and has recoil will probably take about 9 seconds to kill. and they have something that can kill in 4 seconds, 2 if they have a certain booster equipped.Sorry that isn't balanced as much as people want to believe it is.

 

No I don't agree with nerfing the Dragon despite my lothing of it, I've watched this place beg for nerf after nerf and get absolutely nowhere except further from the ideal game.

 

The current options are either nerfing the KAL-7, Removing the Dragon from the loadout or...

 

Actually changing the thought process, balancing weapons by IMPROVING them and not making them worse and worse. This has taken us backwards. I remember playing in November. I enjoyed November a lot, it **bleep** me off to no end though. This current state unfortunately feels exactly the same. Can't say I've felt like this since that time. It's getting old fast too, while there was a little variety before, I'm seeing absolutely none right now. It's gone from fun, to meh, "It'll do"


I don't agree with the Dragon. It's not, what you say, an "OP" weapon. It has a slow aim compared to any other gun, and if you blindfire it, you're insane or you don't know what the hell "just 20 bullets and horrible blindfire" mean. I'd say it's a camper-friendly weapon, but then again, anyone who's good at taking out people can camp with any weapon. It's not even helpful ALL of the time. You can't auto-aim with it, everyone already knows the sound of a Dragon being fired and start to run around/hide, and you have to rely heavily on being far from everyone to be very effective.

 

KAL is a CQC weapon. Have you tried aiming the weapon? Jesus, the recoil. Obviously you're referring to blindfire land, and it's definitely doing too much there. I understand, but you have to see that the KAL is close range and close range ONLY.

 

I'm cool with the idea of buffing everything else, especially the AK. I'm not cool with removing the Dragon. I don't want even more G-MAL and FAL users because ND took away their other scoped weapon.

Currently looking for GTA Online friends who aren't obviously bad sports.
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PlayStation MVP
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Re: Balance Overhaul. Fairness / Boring / Balanced or Fun?

Aug 20, 2012
The Dragon is not OP. It takes the most amount of skill of all loadout weapons to use and can be quite hard to aim.
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Welcoming Committee
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Re: Balance Overhaul. Fairness / Boring / Balanced or Fun?

Aug 20, 2012

I never actually called the Dragon OP throughout that massive wall of text.

 

It is still not in line with other weapons as a two hit kill weapon, skill or not that is massively unbalanced. creating a game where skill with a certain weapon means you'll get easier kills isn't balanced.

 

I understand more than anyone that nerfing the Dragon is immensely stupid. It's a sniper it's not supposed to be a 3 shot kill or a 4 shot kill, hell it shouldn't even be a two shot kill.

 

But it's still a loadout weapon offering people quick and easy kills if they can use it, and I'm seeing people good with it more and more everytime I play.

 

It's not much fun getting repeatedly beat down by the same weapon over and over, more to the point also as a loadout weapon it completely murders an aspect of this game, COVER gameplay. it takes heads out from behind cover... That shouldn't be available as a starting weapon. It's too good for a loadout weapon.

 

Regardless if something is done to bring back variety by moving that from the loadout, something still has to be done to the KAL 7 again... Nerfing everything just brought that full circle.



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Re: Balance Overhaul. Fairness / Boring / Balanced or Fun?

[ Edited ]
Aug 20, 2012

Aureilia wrote:

I never actually called the Dragon OP throughout that massive wall of text.

 

It is still not in line with other weapons as a two hit kill weapon, skill or not that is massively unbalanced. creating a game where skill with a certain weapon means you'll get easier kills isn't balanced.

 

I understand more than anyone that nerfing the Dragon is immensely stupid. It's a sniper it's not supposed to be a 3 shot kill or a 4 shot kill, hell it shouldn't even be a two shot kill.

 

But it's still a loadout weapon offering people quick and easy kills if they can use it, and I'm seeing people good with it more and more everytime I play.

 

It's not much fun getting repeatedly beat down by the same weapon over and over, more to the point also as a loadout weapon it completely murders an aspect of this game, COVER gameplay. it takes heads out from behind cover... That shouldn't be available as a starting weapon. It's too good for a loadout weapon.

 

Regardless if something is done to bring back variety by moving that from the loadout, something still has to be done to the KAL 7 again... Nerfing everything just brought that full circle.


You say it should be removed as a loadout weapon because it's capable of killing faster than the other weapons. That's as good as calling it overpowered. 

 

Who the hell are you playing online that you're getting beat down by the Dragon Sniper over and over again? God d*mn man not once have I had a game, not once. In 600 or so games, have I had anyone give me trouble with the Dragon Sniper. In fact when I see a Dragon user I see them as an easy kill. 

 

Either way, your argument is weak. Using that logic snipers shouldn't be in any game because it's a one-shot kill which is unfair as it's a faster kill than anything else. This is true in all games because that's how snipers have always worked. They are not overpowered because they make trade offs for that power:

 

a) harder to aim than any other weapon

b) no unaimed view

c) slow rate of fire and high recoil, extremely punishing if you miss

 

Either way you're never going to see a whole weapon removed from the loadouts even if it were the most powerful thing in the game. They would just nerf it. They'd never remove something, especially something like that. The Dragon, as a sniper represents a whole playstyle that they'd be taking out of the game, it would be killing something that a lot of people enjoy, for no apparant reason. 

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Welcoming Committee
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Re: Balance Overhaul. Fairness / Boring / Balanced or Fun?

[ Edited ]
Aug 20, 2012

ChronoJoe wrote:

Aureilia wrote:

I never actually called the Dragon OP throughout that massive wall of text.

 

It is still not in line with other weapons as a two hit kill weapon, skill or not that is massively unbalanced. creating a game where skill with a certain weapon means you'll get easier kills isn't balanced.

 

I understand more than anyone that nerfing the Dragon is immensely stupid. It's a sniper it's not supposed to be a 3 shot kill or a 4 shot kill, hell it shouldn't even be a two shot kill.

 

But it's still a loadout weapon offering people quick and easy kills if they can use it, and I'm seeing people good with it more and more everytime I play.

 

It's not much fun getting repeatedly beat down by the same weapon over and over, more to the point also as a loadout weapon it completely murders an aspect of this game, COVER gameplay. it takes heads out from behind cover... That shouldn't be available as a starting weapon. It's too good for a loadout weapon.

 

Regardless if something is done to bring back variety by moving that from the loadout, something still has to be done to the KAL 7 again... Nerfing everything just brought that full circle.


You say it should be removed as a loadout weapon because it's capable of killing faster than the other weapons. That's as good as calling it overpowered. 

 

Who the hell are you playing online that you're getting beat down by the Dragon Sniper over and over again? God d*mn man not once have I had a game, not once. In 600 or so games, have I had anyone give me trouble with the Dragon Sniper. In fact when I see a Dragon user I see them as an easy kill. 

 

Either way, your argument is weak. Using that logic snipers shouldn't be in any game because it's a one-shot kill which is unfair as it's a faster kill than anything else. This is true in all games because that's how snipers have always worked. They are not overpowered because they make trade offs for that power:

 

a) harder to aim than any other weapon

b) no unaimed view

c) slow rate of fire and high recoil, extremely punishing if you miss



Most games are also not surrounded by other weapons that have been continuously nerfed into a state of life support.

 

Snipers in other games are relatively balanced by having higher recoil, but other weapons have lower recoil.

 

The Dragon only doesn't fit at the moment because it's recoil isn't much worse than other weapons.

 

FAL-SS actually has immensely worse recoil than the Dragon. It used to have it's saving grace that it's fast fire could take people down, but of course. it got nerfed.

 

AK's recoil.. Don't even get me started, by far the most disturbing recoil in the entire game. It's absolutely everywhere.

 

G-MAL now has bad recoil too. Truth is It's far easier to control the Dragon.

 

I'll say this though. I'm not saying it's OP because I'm actually saying the nerfs have made everything else Underpowered.

 

That's the argument and that is why with no nerfs to it's name, the Dragon is becoming more and more the main tool.

 

Like I said don't want it nerfed, everything else needs improvement. I honestly fail to see the trade off on the Dragon being any worse on the other weapons.

 

Bad recoil? Same on everything else, in the AK's case it's more immense, FAL-SS is also way worse. They both have recoil that just shakes around the screen.

Reload Speed? Okay that could be counted as a negative, but when someone is wall hugging it's not going to make a difference.

 

I would strongly urge you to play a few lab games. You'll see what I mean about this.

 

Edit: By the concept that it has huge trade offs such as recoil, reload time and such, the SAS also has trade offs such as being extremely poor from long distance, being quite bad from medium distance and not exactly a weapon you'd want to aim.

 

Those trade offs are worse than the Dragon's trade offs yet it's not a loadout weapon. I don't want it to be, I'm just saying it's a far worse weapon than the Dragon is where you can stay camped up in some corner and evade most battles while picking people off from a vast distance.

 

But since it has trade offs which are pretty brutal it should be in the loadout right?

 

Point there is that everything has it's negatives, the problem comes in when the positives outweigh the negatives. It's a pretty huge positive in a traversal adventure shooter where movement, climbing and stuff is supposed to be key, to have a weapon where you can just hide yourself and kill everyone doing this available from the start is just absurd.

 

It's pretty easy to take down anyone climbing with the Dragon. I don't think I'm good with it at all, I can do that though and it kind of negates the entire point of the game.



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Survivor
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Re: Balance Overhaul. Fairness / Boring / Balanced or Fun?

Aug 20, 2012

I have a simple solution to fix all this.

 

Lay all the god **** guns on the maps and don't have load out weapons.

 

Just have load outs for you kick backs and boosters.

 

Put all the guns back to the way they were originally and get rid of guns in load outs.


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