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Re: BLINDFIRE: Why it must be nerfed, Eric replied, 60+ kudoes

Nov 21, 2012

Eric-ND wrote:

As before if you call out employees in a thread subject we're going to have to alter the thread or nuke it so don't do that. Also private messages are meant to be just that. If you want a public reply we're willing to do it whenever but don't invite us to a private conversation. 

 

That said we're not changing blindfire. It's a design of the game and it doesn't affect a critical mass of our player base in any way that makes the game anywhere near unplayable.

 

Let's put this to bed and move on to things that can be changed. Thanks for your continued feedback and support on all topics.  


I'm sorry Eric but I don't agree with you. How come it's not affecting the player base? Since when is blindifre supposed to overcome aiming ? Did you design these weapons to do that ? I don't even mean blindifre from close encounters, but blindifre from miles aways still gets you killed while you're aiming at your target.

 

That doesn't make any sense at all! And the fact that you guys won't even consider looking at that surprises me a lot. People are leaving the game because of this....

 

I suggest you guys take an entire day to play Uncharted 3 non stop....you'll se what we're talking about. All I know is this isn't right and you guys need to acknowledge that!! 

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Re: BLINDFIRE: Why it must be nerfed, Eric replied, 60+ kudoes

Nov 21, 2012
I don't want any stopping power added tap, but definitely remove the blindfire stopping power ND. It's impossible to escape if soeone starts blindfiring an RoF M9. That thing, stupidly has more stopping power than the GMAL now. Can stopping power be removed from RoF guns as well?

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Re: BLINDFIRE: Why it must be nerfed, Eric replied, 60+ kudoes

Nov 21, 2012

jjjkur wrote:
I don't want any stopping power added tap, but definitely remove the blindfire stopping power ND. It's impossible to escape if soeone starts blindfiring an RoF M9. That thing, stupidly has more stopping power than the GMAL now. Can stopping power be removed from RoF guns as well?

I think that the 50% SP reduction on the G-MAL was a bit overboard. Definitely not a "baby step" nerf.

It certainly needs 10-20% more SP to be on par with the AK and the FAL.

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Re: BLINDFIRE: Why it must be nerfed, Eric replied, 60+ kudoes

Nov 21, 2012

Eric-ND wrote:

Matthijs_17 wrote:

Introduction:

blindfire is used by noobs as well as experienced players, most people here on the forums hate it, because the tactic dominates the game. Naughty Dog stated before that blindfire is effective because they want to give new players a mechanic that is easy to use so that they can get kills too. In this thread, I shall try to explain in my crappy English, why blindfire should be nerfed.

 

The learning curve:

in every game the player should get better after getting more experienced, but in Uncharted that's not the case. Instead of getting more skilled, the players rely on cheap tactics to get kills. This is how that learning curve goes in Uncharted:

- punch twice

- blindfire

- blindfire a while and then finish of with a punch

- blindfire while zig-zagging and finish it of with a punch

- blindfire just enough bullets while zig-zagging and then do a wack and roll because if the blindfire didn't do enough damage, you should avoid a punch of the opponent

This is not how it should be!

How should it be then? Well, I agree with Naughty Dog that new players should have an easy tool to get kills once in a while, but the tool they gave them (blindfire) is so powerful that it has become the best tactic of the game. So blindfire needs a (huge) nerf if you ask me. What nerf I mean comes later, but the result of the nerf should be this:

- blindfire is useful in close combat situations when the player flanks the opponent. If the opponent is shooting at the player by aiming at him, then blindfire should not win. Also blindfire should be a usefull tactic if 2 players accidently run into each other, then blindfire should be a good tactic to use, aiming that close is obviously not a good solution. However the opponent should have the option to avoid the close combat situation by rolling away and then starts aiming at the opponent, then it should depend on how well he aims if he should win or the player that uses blindfire.

 

The solution:

Blindfire should not be auto-lock-on, instead the player should blindfire in the direction he or she is running (not where the camera is facing, because that wouldn't solve the zig-zagging issue!). This way noobs can still get kills by flanking opponents, but the zig-zagging towards an aiming opponent doesn't work anymore, so to get better in the game, you still need to learn how to aim, because you can't always flank your opponents, and if they spot you, you're screwed. Also (but this is extra) I think the wack and roll tactic should be removed, because it is heavily used in combination with blindfire and very effective. Also (this is extra too, but I do think it's very important) a punch should never work if an opponent is rolling, even not when he is damaged because when a player uses blindfire on his opponent and then punches, the opponent still dies even if he does a roll to get out of that close combat situation, and that is not fair, the opponent must have a chanche to stil win the fight. Like I said earlier: blindfire should be a usefull tactic when flanking opponents, but it shouldn't be used to opponents who have you in your sights. This way noobs can get kills once in a while, and the experienced players actually have to learn how to aim, because else they will be in a disadvantage to other experienced players.

This results in the following learning curve:

- punch twice

- explore the maps and try to flank opponents and use blindfire to kill them

- flank opponents and aim from a small distance to get the kill

- learn to kill opponents head-on by using cover

- learn to kill opponents head on by using cover effectively and by strafing

- when flanking learn to make stealth kills, and when fighting head-on, choose wisely between using cover or strafing

In this learning curve, blindfire slowly disappears out of the list of skills, it has become a tool for inexperienced players and it isn't the best tactic in the game anymore, so everyone is happy, the noob gets actually better in the game and has fun while doing it, and the experienced player needs to work on their skills to take on other experienced players, problem solved.

 

Summary: blindfire should be nerfed by removing the auto-lock-on completely, players should blindfire in the direction they are running, this way blindfire is usefull for flanking opponents, but not for attacking them head-on. When getting more experienced, the player will stop using blindfire but instead try to make stealthkills when flanking  (he gets rewarded for that with medals), and using cover and strafing when attacking head-on. The inexperienced player still has a tool to get kills, and will slowly gain skills while having fun all the time, they don't get crushed by experienced players all the time. All are happy.

 

Final words: I would appreciate it if people post here so this thread keeps alive for a long time, because I hope Naughty Dog will read it, and adjust their opinion on blindfire. I know there are a lot of blindfire threads, but none of them is directing to Naughty Dog or has a fully typed out opinion why blindfire should be nerfed. So I thought I had to make this, I'm not begging for kudos or something, speaking of which, you don't have to give them to me because it doesn't solve the blindfire issue, just keep posting, that's all I'm asking! Smiley Wink

 

and to Naughty Dog: please do something about it, almost everyone here hates it and it dominates the game, I tried to explain above why, and it seems pretty obvious to me that blindfire isn't like you meant it to be, do something! Smiley Indifferent

 

EDIT:

 

In last Q and A Eric answered a question about blindfire with a question about what we thought is broken about blindfire, so I decided to message him, under this is the message and the reply of Eric:

 

Matthijs_17 wrote:

Hi Eric,

 

you answered a question from someone about blindfire with a question about what actually is broken about it, I recently created a thread about it (it has over 50 kudoes so I think it's save to say that a lot of people agree) in which I explain why there has to be a change to blindfire, I understand that you are probably busy and don't have time to read such a wall of text, so in case you haven't I will give you a very short explanation of it, but I hope you will read that wall of text:

 

- You asked in your question what the poster of the question actually found broken of the blindfire, well the answer to that is that blindfire isn't really broken, it's overpowered, blindfire is way more usefull than aiming, with almost every weapon, but preferably the m9, para9 and obviously kal-7. I think that the cause of that is that blindfire is far to accurate, and works from a small distance too. Of course aiming is more accurate then blindfire, but blindfire comes with zig-zagging, the players run all zig-zagging towards you, making it very hard to aim at them, therefore the accuracy of aiming is lower, while the accuracy of blindfire stays the same. As an aimer you can strafe all you want but it has no use to blindfire. Also blindfire comes with another trick: the wack-and-roll, it's a popular name for punching and rolling immediately after that, to prevent receiving damage from a punch from the other player, it's a very cheap tactic to use. So blindfire and the wack-and-roll combined are a very effective tactic, players just run op to you using blindfire while zig-zagging and when they reach you they punch you and immediately roll so they avoid getting punched back, no matter how well you aim, aiming against this will hardly succeed.

 

- You thought that blindfire is balanced it is the way it is and that all players can use blindfire fairly against each other, but the problem is not blindfire against blindfire, if someone blindfires at me, of course I have the opportunity to just blindfire back, but that's not what I and many other people want, because it is not fun to do, and that is what this game should be all about, but the truth is that every match all players just run up to each other and blindfire each other, the ones who knows the cheap tactics better wins, it has nothing to do with skill.

 

- Blindfire should be a tool for newcomers to get a kill once in a while, but instead it dominates the game, blindfire should only be usefull when you flank an opponent and want to take him/her out at close range, it should never be succesful when facing an opponent that is trying to aim at you (when that opponent is at least a decent player), there are many ways to solve this, for instance that you only blindfire in the direction you are running, blindfire has an auto-lock-on system of some sorts, that should be removed. An other solution is to increase stopping power when aiming significantly. And another solution might be to make the bullet spread a lot bigger, so that not all bullets hit the opponent when blindfiring. Anyway I don't really care how it gets solved, as long as it doesn't dominate the game anymore. So blindfire needs a nerf along with the wack-and roll tactic that needs to be removed, it makes no sense to punch someone, but cancel the animation by rolling and then the opponent gets punched by nothing, that's weird and unfair, I would call it a glitch, but the opinions on that subject are different. But not on the blindfire subject, a lot of people want really to be done something about it.

 

I really hope that you do something about it in future patches, I think you're doing great so far and support the game with all the resources and time you have, you are truly my favorite developer and the best one out there, and I hope that it stays that way. Under this is the link to the thread about blindfire, I hope you or someone else at the team gives it a look and talks about it with the others, because it really is worth doing something about it. Hopefully this answered your question and I appreciate an answer (a short answer is fine, I just want to know if you gave it a read), besides, you owe us one, because you answered a question with a question, I answered that question, so you answer mine to bring it back to 10 questions in a month, ok? :smileywink:

 

Sincerely, a fan named Matthijs


Thanks for the note Matthijs. We don't have any plan to tweak blindfire. Sorry I know that's not what you want to hear but that's how we are approaching this design matter. It's not a widespread problem.

 

While I appreciate a response from Eric, I am obviously dissapointed with his answer, personally I think Naughty Dog doesn't want to do anything about the subject because it's a large change to how the game is played, and it's a risk to make that sort of a change this late since release of the game. I have much respect for Naughty Dog and Eric too, but if he's saying that blindfire isn't a widespread problem, then he really is avoiding the subject, because there have been a dozen of threads about this recently, and all get an insane amount of kudoes. Also he can just play the game himself and at the first match he will experience the problem.

 

So I guess the only thing we can do is let Naughty Dog know that this is indeed a widespread problem, just in case they really don't know how their game is played, but I doubt that, I think they are just avoiding the subject, I can understand that, but at least I hope they learn a lesson out of it in case they make another Uncharted game (probably for PS4 then), because this skillless crap really have to be taken out the game...


As before if you call out employees in a thread subject we're going to have to alter the thread or nuke it so don't do that. Also private messages are meant to be just that. If you want a public reply we're willing to do it whenever but don't invite us to a private conversation. 

 

That said we're not changing blindfire. It's a design of the game and it doesn't affect a critical mass of our player base in any way that makes the game anywhere near unplayable.

 

Let's put this to bed and move on to things that can be changed. Thanks for your continued feedback and support on all topics.  


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Re: BLINDFIRE: Why it must be nerfed, Eric replied, 60+ kudoes

Nov 21, 2012
They don't actually play the game. That statement iterates it even more.

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Re: BLINDFIRE: Why it must be nerfed, Eric replied, 60+ kudoes

Nov 22, 2012

Eric-ND wrote:

 

As before if you call out employees in a thread subject we're going to have to alter the thread or nuke it so don't do that. Also private messages are meant to be just that. If you want a public reply we're willing to do it whenever but don't invite us to a private conversation. 

 

That said we're not changing blindfire. It's a design of the game and it doesn't affect a critical mass of our player base in any way that makes the game anywhere near unplayable.

 

Let's put this to bed and move on to things that can be changed. Thanks for your continued feedback and support on all topics.  

 

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Re: BLINDFIRE: Why it must be nerfed, Eric replied, 60+ kudoes

[ Edited ]
Nov 22, 2012

Eric-ND wrote:

Matthijs_17 wrote:

Introduction:

blindfire is used by noobs as well as experienced players, most people here on the forums hate it, because the tactic dominates the game. Naughty Dog stated before that blindfire is effective because they want to give new players a mechanic that is easy to use so that they can get kills too. In this thread, I shall try to explain in my crappy English, why blindfire should be nerfed.

 

The learning curve:

in every game the player should get better after getting more experienced, but in Uncharted that's not the case. Instead of getting more skilled, the players rely on cheap tactics to get kills. This is how that learning curve goes in Uncharted:

- punch twice

- blindfire

- blindfire a while and then finish of with a punch

- blindfire while zig-zagging and finish it of with a punch

- blindfire just enough bullets while zig-zagging and then do a wack and roll because if the blindfire didn't do enough damage, you should avoid a punch of the opponent

This is not how it should be!

How should it be then? Well, I agree with Naughty Dog that new players should have an easy tool to get kills once in a while, but the tool they gave them (blindfire) is so powerful that it has become the best tactic of the game. So blindfire needs a (huge) nerf if you ask me. What nerf I mean comes later, but the result of the nerf should be this:

- blindfire is useful in close combat situations when the player flanks the opponent. If the opponent is shooting at the player by aiming at him, then blindfire should not win. Also blindfire should be a usefull tactic if 2 players accidently run into each other, then blindfire should be a good tactic to use, aiming that close is obviously not a good solution. However the opponent should have the option to avoid the close combat situation by rolling away and then starts aiming at the opponent, then it should depend on how well he aims if he should win or the player that uses blindfire.

 

The solution:

Blindfire should not be auto-lock-on, instead the player should blindfire in the direction he or she is running (not where the camera is facing, because that wouldn't solve the zig-zagging issue!). This way noobs can still get kills by flanking opponents, but the zig-zagging towards an aiming opponent doesn't work anymore, so to get better in the game, you still need to learn how to aim, because you can't always flank your opponents, and if they spot you, you're screwed. Also (but this is extra) I think the wack and roll tactic should be removed, because it is heavily used in combination with blindfire and very effective. Also (this is extra too, but I do think it's very important) a punch should never work if an opponent is rolling, even not when he is damaged because when a player uses blindfire on his opponent and then punches, the opponent still dies even if he does a roll to get out of that close combat situation, and that is not fair, the opponent must have a chanche to stil win the fight. Like I said earlier: blindfire should be a usefull tactic when flanking opponents, but it shouldn't be used to opponents who have you in your sights. This way noobs can get kills once in a while, and the experienced players actually have to learn how to aim, because else they will be in a disadvantage to other experienced players.

This results in the following learning curve:

- punch twice

- explore the maps and try to flank opponents and use blindfire to kill them

- flank opponents and aim from a small distance to get the kill

- learn to kill opponents head-on by using cover

- learn to kill opponents head on by using cover effectively and by strafing

- when flanking learn to make stealth kills, and when fighting head-on, choose wisely between using cover or strafing

In this learning curve, blindfire slowly disappears out of the list of skills, it has become a tool for inexperienced players and it isn't the best tactic in the game anymore, so everyone is happy, the noob gets actually better in the game and has fun while doing it, and the experienced player needs to work on their skills to take on other experienced players, problem solved.

 

Summary: blindfire should be nerfed by removing the auto-lock-on completely, players should blindfire in the direction they are running, this way blindfire is usefull for flanking opponents, but not for attacking them head-on. When getting more experienced, the player will stop using blindfire but instead try to make stealthkills when flanking  (he gets rewarded for that with medals), and using cover and strafing when attacking head-on. The inexperienced player still has a tool to get kills, and will slowly gain skills while having fun all the time, they don't get crushed by experienced players all the time. All are happy.

 

Final words: I would appreciate it if people post here so this thread keeps alive for a long time, because I hope Naughty Dog will read it, and adjust their opinion on blindfire. I know there are a lot of blindfire threads, but none of them is directing to Naughty Dog or has a fully typed out opinion why blindfire should be nerfed. So I thought I had to make this, I'm not begging for kudos or something, speaking of which, you don't have to give them to me because it doesn't solve the blindfire issue, just keep posting, that's all I'm asking! Smiley Wink

 

and to Naughty Dog: please do something about it, almost everyone here hates it and it dominates the game, I tried to explain above why, and it seems pretty obvious to me that blindfire isn't like you meant it to be, do something! Smiley Indifferent

 

EDIT:

 

In last Q and A Eric answered a question about blindfire with a question about what we thought is broken about blindfire, so I decided to message him, under this is the message and the reply of Eric:

 

Matthijs_17 wrote:

Hi Eric,

 

you answered a question from someone about blindfire with a question about what actually is broken about it, I recently created a thread about it (it has over 50 kudoes so I think it's save to say that a lot of people agree) in which I explain why there has to be a change to blindfire, I understand that you are probably busy and don't have time to read such a wall of text, so in case you haven't I will give you a very short explanation of it, but I hope you will read that wall of text:

 

- You asked in your question what the poster of the question actually found broken of the blindfire, well the answer to that is that blindfire isn't really broken, it's overpowered, blindfire is way more usefull than aiming, with almost every weapon, but preferably the m9, para9 and obviously kal-7. I think that the cause of that is that blindfire is far to accurate, and works from a small distance too. Of course aiming is more accurate then blindfire, but blindfire comes with zig-zagging, the players run all zig-zagging towards you, making it very hard to aim at them, therefore the accuracy of aiming is lower, while the accuracy of blindfire stays the same. As an aimer you can strafe all you want but it has no use to blindfire. Also blindfire comes with another trick: the wack-and-roll, it's a popular name for punching and rolling immediately after that, to prevent receiving damage from a punch from the other player, it's a very cheap tactic to use. So blindfire and the wack-and-roll combined are a very effective tactic, players just run op to you using blindfire while zig-zagging and when they reach you they punch you and immediately roll so they avoid getting punched back, no matter how well you aim, aiming against this will hardly succeed.

 

- You thought that blindfire is balanced it is the way it is and that all players can use blindfire fairly against each other, but the problem is not blindfire against blindfire, if someone blindfires at me, of course I have the opportunity to just blindfire back, but that's not what I and many other people want, because it is not fun to do, and that is what this game should be all about, but the truth is that every match all players just run up to each other and blindfire each other, the ones who knows the cheap tactics better wins, it has nothing to do with skill.

 

- Blindfire should be a tool for newcomers to get a kill once in a while, but instead it dominates the game, blindfire should only be usefull when you flank an opponent and want to take him/her out at close range, it should never be succesful when facing an opponent that is trying to aim at you (when that opponent is at least a decent player), there are many ways to solve this, for instance that you only blindfire in the direction you are running, blindfire has an auto-lock-on system of some sorts, that should be removed. An other solution is to increase stopping power when aiming significantly. And another solution might be to make the bullet spread a lot bigger, so that not all bullets hit the opponent when blindfiring. Anyway I don't really care how it gets solved, as long as it doesn't dominate the game anymore. So blindfire needs a nerf along with the wack-and roll tactic that needs to be removed, it makes no sense to punch someone, but cancel the animation by rolling and then the opponent gets punched by nothing, that's weird and unfair, I would call it a glitch, but the opinions on that subject are different. But not on the blindfire subject, a lot of people want really to be done something about it.

 

I really hope that you do something about it in future patches, I think you're doing great so far and support the game with all the resources and time you have, you are truly my favorite developer and the best one out there, and I hope that it stays that way. Under this is the link to the thread about blindfire, I hope you or someone else at the team gives it a look and talks about it with the others, because it really is worth doing something about it. Hopefully this answered your question and I appreciate an answer (a short answer is fine, I just want to know if you gave it a read), besides, you owe us one, because you answered a question with a question, I answered that question, so you answer mine to bring it back to 10 questions in a month, ok? :smileywink:

 

Sincerely, a fan named Matthijs


Thanks for the note Matthijs. We don't have any plan to tweak blindfire. Sorry I know that's not what you want to hear but that's how we are approaching this design matter. It's not a widespread problem.

 

While I appreciate a response from Eric, I am obviously dissapointed with his answer, personally I think Naughty Dog doesn't want to do anything about the subject because it's a large change to how the game is played, and it's a risk to make that sort of a change this late since release of the game. I have much respect for Naughty Dog and Eric too, but if he's saying that blindfire isn't a widespread problem, then he really is avoiding the subject, because there have been a dozen of threads about this recently, and all get an insane amount of kudoes. Also he can just play the game himself and at the first match he will experience the problem.

 

So I guess the only thing we can do is let Naughty Dog know that this is indeed a widespread problem, just in case they really don't know how their game is played, but I doubt that, I think they are just avoiding the subject, I can understand that, but at least I hope they learn a lesson out of it in case they make another Uncharted game (probably for PS4 then), because this skillless crap really have to be taken out the game...


As before if you call out employees in a thread subject we're going to have to alter the thread or nuke it so don't do that. Also private messages are meant to be just that. If you want a public reply we're willing to do it whenever but don't invite us to a private conversation. I had send you a private message because of an answer to a question of yours on a question of a user in the Q and A thread, since you answer 10 questions in a month, I thought it was reasonable to pass your answer through to the whole community, after that I gave my opinion on it, I didn't insulted you and said that I have respect for you but disagreed with your opinion, I really don't see what rules I broke, but rules are rules, wheter I understand them or not, do you want me to change the first post?

 

That said we're not changing blindfire. It's a design of the game and it doesn't affect a critical mass of our player base in any way that makes the game anywhere near unplayable. unplayable? no. destroys the fun and many people are leaving because the game doesn't take skill? yes.

 

Let's put this to bed and move on to things that can be changed. Thanks for your continued feedback and support on all topics. I think this still can be changed, maybe indirectly, for instance by adding stopping power, if you think blindfire is a design in the game that needs to stay, then give us opportunities to counter it, like more stopping power, seriously Eric this is a widespread problem, and it doesn't take a huge amount of work to do something about it


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Re: BLINDFIRE: Why it must be nerfed, Eric replied, 60+ kudoes

Nov 22, 2012
Let's not bash too much on Eric, eh? They're trying. Trying bad, sure, but trying.
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Re: BLINDFIRE: Why it must be nerfed, Eric replied, 60+ kudoes

Nov 22, 2012

TheStuntDouble wrote:
Let's not bash too much on Eric, eh? They're trying. Trying bad, sure, but trying.

well that's the thing, I didn't bash at all, all I did was passing his anwer to the community, who owed him an answer on a question, so I did just that, and then he suddenly comes up here warning me to close this thread, I'm confused! Smiley Surprised

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Re: BLINDFIRE: Why it must be nerfed, Eric replied, 60+ kudoes

Nov 22, 2012

tapantaola wrote:

Eric-ND wrote:

That said we're not changing blindfire. It's a design of the game and it doesn't affect a critical mass of our player base in any way that makes the game anywhere near unplayable.

 

Let's put this to bed and move on to things that can be changed. Thanks for your continued feedback and support on all topics.  


Alright, could you add slightly more stopping power to rifles when you aim them and remove stopping power altogether when you blindfire them?

Sounds like a good compromise if you ask me.


Practically this. What could possibly go wrong? It would probably be whining blindfire absuers who might hate G-MAL back in their pre-nerfed days. What a pity for them.  

 

I think ND tried to go by the rule: "Never fix what isn't broken" from now on. They actually thought the blindfire system isn't broken. Heck, they could thought bringing stopping power would break the game. Looks like it's time for re-editing OP or making a new request thread (I'm lazy to do it). 

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