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Wastelander
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No one is saying that the hardcore top-tier calibre playe...

Apr 19, 2011

 


pdiss88 wrote:

Let me just run down the UC3-related comments on my PSN friends list I'm seeing on my friends list right now before people continue to call me cavalier (in other threads) and insist that I don't speak for anyone else:

 

"UC3- Skeptical"

"Don't *bleep* it up, ND"

"Uc3 = T-R-A-S-H"

"Unch3MP .... garbage"

"UC3... Hmmm"

"Cpt. Sully Price"

"Lt. Soap MacDrake"

"UC3 meets COD"

"Drake's Modern Warfare"

 

And no, I didn't leave out any positive ones. Literally every single person online on my friends list right now is either skeptical or completely bummed by what has been unveiled so far. I saw even more last night when I had more friends were on, but my point is that a lot of the people not happy with these changes don't even post on the forums. That doesn't mean they're not still out there and I'm just talking out of my...rear end.


 

No one is saying that the hardcore top-tier calibre players like yourself aren't concerned.  What many of us are saying is: we're happy with the way things look.   Hardcore gamers and casual players do not have the same interests in mind, and haven't since I can remembr playing games.  But massive IP money is made off the backs of the masses, not the hardcore.

In board games, you're the equivalent of me, I play games like ASL and Third Reich, while the masses play Risk and Stratego.  Guess which ones make nmore money?

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Treasure Hunter
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I don't speak for my friends, so you'd have to ask them y...

Apr 19, 2011

 


GloZorCoMeTh wrote:

So pdiss88

 

What would be "perfect" in your (or your friend's) opinion for U3 MP?

 

 


 

I don't speak for my friends, so you'd have to ask them yourselves. I'll give you their PSNs if you're so inclined.

 

As for me, I've said it in other places on the forum and I don't want to regurgitate things I've already said. Shorthand: I don't want kickbacks, power plays, asymmetrical maps, quicker deaths or lame boosters, i.e. "For My Buddy" and "Come Here." All the other new changes are fine.

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Treasure Hunter
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I prefer to look at it as the difference between chess an...

Apr 19, 2011

 


Treasure_Bearer wrote:

 

In board games, you're the equivalent of me, I play games like ASL and Third Reich, while the masses play Risk and Stratego.  Guess which ones make nmore money?

 

I prefer to look at it as the difference between chess and checkers.

 

UC2 was successful enough to have 50K daily players over a year after it came out, so how is that like ASL or Third Reich (don't know what either of those are)?

 

However, your point about games with less of a gap in skill between players being more successful is well taken. I know that's exactly why they did it and I may have even done the same if I were working for ND, but that doesn't mean I need to be happy about it.

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I Only Post Everything
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As I see it, there is a disconnect between how different...

Apr 19, 2011

As I see it, there is a disconnect between how different people generalize the thoughts of "loyal" fans.

 

I find myself sort of in the middle of this major divergence in opinion; I prefer having everyone on an even playing field, but part of what makes Uncharted unique to me is a certain level of variety. This variety can be slightly uneven, detracting from the "fair and competitive" aspects of level design or gameplay.

 

So here is my attempt to synthesize the various viewpoints in a way that I think also explains some of the early complaints regarding new elements in U3:

 

Uncharted has always been a very tightly controlled experience. Some people say it's a "cinematic" experience, but I think the sentiment is the same. The environments are beautifully rendered, and are designed to deliver a specific visceral reaction to the player. The mechanics are exceptionally smooth and reliable for a 3rd-person game. Very little is left to chance; a critic may call it "scripted", but the result is far less visual and mechanical problems compared to other games.

 

These aspects carried over to the MP, and people loved it. There were boosters, but they had a negligible impact on the matches, with the exception of SA. Maybe equipping DTI would give you one extra kill in a match, but not equipping Evasion could change the entire dynamic of your experience.

 

People prefer the more tightly controlled, predictible gameplay that occurred without SA; by "predictible" I mean that the paramters of the match are consistent and familiar. Players like focusing on shooting, climbing, and tactical movement instead of worrying about boosters and other tangential and variable elements.

 

Lag and bad spawns fall into the uncontrolled, unpredictible side of things. Regardless of a player's approach to the game, these aspects detract from the experience.

 

I think most loyal fans agree with all of this to some degree, but disagree with why it is important to them.

 

Competitive players like it because it makes for an even playing field. They like that ND is so good at creating environments and gameplay that are smooth and consistent, so that a competitive match isn't tainted by unpredictible hiccups. 

 

Casual players like it because it's unique, interesting, and fun. They can appreciate all of the amazing detail, the smooth gameplay, and the "scripted" experience without being forced to worry about a thousand extra settings and mods.

 

Most people fall somewhere in the middle. I really like the Flooded Ruins, but I fully understand why a competitive person would dislike it. This may be a source of disagreement, but I think it's unrelated to the general attitude toward the U3 changes people are complaining about.

 

To some, too many of the additions appear to detract from the predictible "balance" loyal fans enjoy. Character customization annoys some of us because seeing Sully look like something other than Sully takes something away from that tight control ND has always maintained. Weapon mods and loadouts bother some because they potentially upset the balance we're use to at the start of matches. Kickbacks have a similar effect by adding an element that seems unpredictible,out of place, and potentially overwhelming.

 

The loyal fans saying they like the changes appear to be relying on their faith that Naughty Dog will institute them without upsetting the balance. The critical fans have 1.05 in the back of their minds and worry that ND is adding new, uneven elements to the experience.

 

When people say something feels like it is "not Uncharted", that is what they're referring to. They're not saying they want a reskinned UC2, but that they want something consistent with the cinematic experience we all expect.

 

When people say the like the changes, they're not saying they want CoD, but that they trust Naughty Dog to maintain the cinematic experience with the additions.

 

I find myself on the skeptical side, but I think the dialogue would be a little more productive if we remind ourselves that we're largely looking for the same thing. 

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First Son
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Good Points, but...

Apr 19, 2011

I think we are rushing to judge this a bit too fast. I agree with all your points about the lackluster support for Uncharted 2 MP, but I also believe we may be getting blinded by what happened in U2 MP. Here are my reasons.

 

1) We haven't heard of all the playlists that will be in the final game, so for all we know, they could have a no kickback no booster gametype that many of us have wanted for a while, I mean they added free-for-all, which was requested by many, so why not add a bare bones playlist like many have requested for too?

 

2) It's not like all that was announced was bad, I mean, the really deep character customization is really nice. The Airstrip map sounds really cool and more might start out similar to it with the crazy set piece. The Three TDM sounds fun when you don't have many friends online to play with at the moment. And yes while the changes are a bit jarring at first glance, none of the kickbacks sound too overpowered. Yes some of them are kinda silly like the smoke bomb one, I think instead of vanishing it should stun all those around you like Assassins Creed Brotherhood. Anyway, the rest of them seem fine. And they remind me more of Resistance 2's Berserk system than COD's Killstreak system, which is a very good thing. Also the Uncharted TV is a nice little touch. The SA replacements should be axed however, that I agree should go.

 

3) We haven't tried it yet. There are two easy ways available to get into the beta to try it out first, so until the beta I reserve judgment on if the changes are good or not.

 

It is never good for a game series to just copy and paste the same thing over to the next game. Look at the COD series. They haven't changed a bit over the years and the most recent entry Black Ops is one of the worst FPS games I have ever played in my life. If you just copy and paste the entire time, your series will die sooner or later. It's different yes, but that doesn't mean it will instantly be a bust.

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Treasure Hunter
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My two cents...

Apr 19, 2011

Most people dislike change.  Especially if the thing being changed is something they love or at least used to love!  If you love playing UC2's multiplayer the way it is, OF COURSE you will have a problem to these aspects which will vastly (or at least slightly) change up the way you play. 

 

However, it is perfectly natural for ND to look at trends in the gaming world to see what will bring in more players!  Keeping it exactly, or even mostly the same, will not bring in loads of people to play (ESPECIALLY with MW3 rumoured to be dropping this November also).  So they're changing it up, adding customization as well as other components of successful multiplayer games.  I believe that ND truly does care about and appreciate their fans, and I vehemently disagree that they were treating UC2's multiplayer as a giant beta test.  At the end of the day (or fiscal year), however, ND is a company.  The bottom line is, they need to be profitable!  U3 is bigger than U2, is costing more money to make, and therefore they need to be successful to make that money back. 

 

So how do you do that?  It's not by making a game that only keeps your hardcore fans happy.  It's by making a game that someone who's never seen Uncharted before will say, "WOW, that looks awesome!  I gotta pick that game up!"  I'm sure that ND is trying to walk on the razors edge as much as they can, trying to keep the fanbase happy while appealing to a more massive market.  It is natural of course that many fans of the current iteration will be unhappy, and I would argue it's likely the people MOST unhappy with it are people who constitute the elite of this game.  That would include you and many of the people on your friends list I'm sure, pdiss. 

 

You are right us more casual players are heartened by some of these changes.  I don't believe it will make the game as noob friendly as some seem to think, but I do think it will institute a learning curve which will help new players not be just obliterated by more experienced ones, at least not right away! 

 

Lastly, I completely agree with you about one thing -  the kickbacks remind me a lot of the berserks in Resistance 2, and as someone who plays/ed that game, you should know as well as I do that they aren't gamebreakers!   Once I realized that, I got more behind the idea of kickbacks then I was initially. 

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Treasure Hunter
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Right, and that's what the whole thread is about. Not &qu...

Apr 19, 2011

 


ryaniscool47 wrote:
So how do you do that?  It's not by making a game that only keeps your hardcore fans happy.  It's by making a game that someone who's never seen Uncharted before will say, "WOW, that looks awesome!  I gotta pick that game up!"  I'm sure that ND is trying to walk on the razors edge as much as they can, trying to keep the fanbase happy while appealing to a more massive market.  It is natural of course that many fans of the current iteration will be unhappy, and I would argue it's likely the people MOST unhappy with it are people who constitute the elite of this game.  That would include you and many of the people on your friends list I'm sure, pdiss.

 

Right, and that's what the whole thread is about. Not "this game is going be trash" as some people have perceived, but the point is that ND is aiming to grab some more of the casual shooter fans that really didn't enjoy UC2 MP. I am admittedly going to pick up UC3 for the SP and co-op even if the MP ends up being horse manure, so no need to sell me on something I've already been sold on.

 

The demographic of console gamers who buy shooters purely for multiplayer but still may not be hardcore gamers is becoming larger and larger each year. ND clearly wants to pull some of these money makers away from Halo, Call of Duty and Bad Company for a while. It's a fair strategy and, like I said, I would probably do the same in their position. I just wanted to bring attention to it.

 

As for the berserks in R2, they were not gamebreaking but I found them extremely annoying. I think the game could have done better without them, but the real problem was the Wraith. :smileytongue:

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Treasure Hunter
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LOL.  Agreed about the wraith.    I think the statement i...

Apr 19, 2011

LOL.  Agreed about the wraith. 

 

I think the statement in your OP I was taking the most issue with was when you said ND was instituting changes "in spite of" the hardcore fans.  I really think they're doing the best they can to make the fans happy, but they're really in an impossible situation in that regard, since they NEED to make it a new game, and they need it to be popular. 

 

As someone else stated, we haven't seen the full playlists yet, there may be a "classic mode" or something which would be more traditional.  We'll just have to wait and see.  Bring on the beta!  *hurries up and waits* 

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Wastelander
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its not about the hardcores

Apr 19, 2011

 


ryaniscool47 wrote:

Most people dislike change.  Especially if the thing being changed is something they love or at least used to love!  If you love playing UC2's multiplayer the way it is, OF COURSE you will have a problem to these aspects which will vastly (or at least slightly) change up the way you play. 

 

However, it is perfectly natural for ND to look at trends in the gaming world to see what will bring in more players!  Keeping it exactly, or even mostly the same, will not bring in loads of people to play (ESPECIALLY with MW3 rumoured to be dropping this November also).  So they're changing it up, adding customization as well as other components of successful multiplayer games.  I believe that ND truly does care about and appreciate their fans, and I vehemently disagree that they were treating UC2's multiplayer as a giant beta test.  At the end of the day (or fiscal year), however, ND is a company.  The bottom line is, they need to be profitable!  U3 is bigger than U2, is costing more money to make, and therefore they need to be successful to make that money back. 

 

So how do you do that?  It's not by making a game that only keeps your hardcore fans happy.  It's by making a game that someone who's never seen Uncharted before will say, "WOW, that looks awesome!  I gotta pick that game up!"  I'm sure that ND is trying to walk on the razors edge as much as they can, trying to keep the fanbase happy while appealing to a more massive market.  It is natural of course that many fans of the current iteration will be unhappy, and I would argue it's likely the people MOST unhappy with it are people who constitute the elite of this game.  That would include you and many of the people on your friends list I'm sure, pdiss. 

 

You are right us more casual players are heartened by some of these changes.  I don't believe it will make the game as noob friendly as some seem to think, but I do think it will institute a learning curve which will help new players not be just obliterated by more experienced ones, at least not right away! 

 

Lastly, I completely agree with you about one thing -  the kickbacks remind me a lot of the berserks in Resistance 2, and as someone who plays/ed that game, you should know as well as I do that they aren't gamebreakers!   Once I realized that, I got more behind the idea of kickbacks then I was initially. 


This has nothing to do really with the hardcore, theres no unique identity from what I'm seeing. I would love change but the core gameplay is going to be totally different with sprint and customizable weapons. ND could have been certainly more innovative to make this game appeal to casual players rather than be completely replicative. They've made something I don't recognize. If I wanted to play a tps with customizable weapons and sprint I would go and play socom. TELL ME WHAT CAN YOU SEE IN UC3'S MP THAT IS UNIQUE?

 

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Treasure Hunter
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My guess is that there will indeed be a classic playlist,...

Apr 19, 2011

 


ryaniscool47 wrote:

LOL.  Agreed about the wraith. 

 

I think the statement in your OP I was taking the most issue with was when you said ND was instituting changes "in spite of" the hardcore fans.  I really think they're doing the best they can to make the fans happy, but they're really in an impossible situation in that regard, since they NEED to make it a new game, and they need it to be popular. 

 

As someone else stated, we haven't seen the full playlists yet, there may be a "classic mode" or something which would be more traditional.  We'll just have to wait and see.  Bring on the beta!  *hurries up and waits* 


 

My guess is that there will indeed be a classic playlist, which would keep me happy.

 

And the reason I said "in spite of" is because it really wasn't done for us. If every single diehard UC2 fan was in love with the changes for UC3, I'm sure that would be a big bonus for ND, but at the same time I'm pretty sure that they knew they were going to disappoint  fans with these changes.

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