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Wastelander
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Hm, yea I was probably way off with Militia Man lol.   Go...

Jun 10, 2011

 


Bioshock wrote:

 


Reckless87o wrote:

Retaliation - Spawn with limited ammo when killed with a Power Weapon

  • This is also a problem. Much of what I enjoyed about the gameplay in UC2 was being able to party up with friends, work together and use strategies we had come up with,a nd use them in our matches. Much of the strategies revolved around the use of power weapons. Power weapons, in my eyes and I'm sure the eyes of many other players are a crucial part of many strategies, as the team who is the best at controlling their use on a given map are usually the winning team. They are also very useful in being able to turn the tides of a match for a losing team. If this booster makes it into the final version of the game, you're basically going to destroy that. Its going to put less emphasis on strategizing and working together, because if I can just spawn with a rocket launcher, why would I even bother to risk my life trying to get it before the other team. It cancels out. And think about if this was combined with something like the RPG Kickback.

Definitely. I play a lot of customs and I absolutely hate it when teams request no power weapons. With no power weapons there's less incentive to move and take control of the map. We had a match go on for 20 minutes on the Fort...the end score was 1-1. No power weapons. Another one on the Temple, no power weapons - 1 kill in the 1st 15 seconds, then nothing for another 7 minutes. The reward for moving and grabbing a power weapon is negated by

1. being easily killed by an AK (which some people misconstrued as balance when ND lowered the health and made power weapons useless)

And

2. having the enemy spawn with your power weapon because YOU moved and grabbed it. Like you said, why even bother risking your life to get it?

The potential for abuse is ridiculous. A whole team with this and one guy with a hammer killing three people suddenly balloons into 3 hammers and an entire team dead. If retaliation works with weapons acquired by retaliation, it'll increase from there assuming others have it and turn into a power weapon match. Fun.

 

Medal Kickbacks

 

Militia Man - No reloading for 30 second. Costs 5 medals.

  • I'm assuming this means nobody on the opposite team can reload for 30 seconds? This just doesnt make a lot of sense, and is really random. I mean, not the worst thing in the world, but it just made me "**bleep**?"

I think it means the player who activates it doesn't have to reload for 30 seconds. So it's like an infinite clip. Could be wrong.

 

 


 

Thanks for taking the time to articulate all this, I agree with most of it.

I just singled out a few points for elaboration or clarification.


 

Hm, yea I was probably way off with Militia Man lol.

 

Good point about the Retaliation medal. If players were able to acquire power weapons from other retaliation medals, that'd be like an infinite loop of RPG's and Hammers.

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Treasure Hunter
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I'm willing to bet that the majority of the population is...

Jun 10, 2011

 


ryaniscool47 wrote:

I am not going to respond to most of this because, as pdiss said (quite eloquently), it's hard to formulate opinions on something you haven't gotten your hands on yet.

 

I will say, however, that I do not agree with the "Choose A Region" section.  One of the best components of playing this game, for me, has been playing with people from around the world.  Regardless of our cultural, political, or socio-economic backgrounds, we are brought together by how awesome we think this game is.  I have made several friends and met some truly wonderful people who I would NOT be able to play with were Uncharted 3 to feature some sort of region lock.  

 

Sure, the lag is regrettable, but I will deal with it if it means I get to play with my international friends.  


I'm willing to bet that the majority of the population is much more concerned with having a minimal or lag-free experience than the potential to meet cool players every once in a while. Not to mention, it doesn't have to be a strict region-only limitation. What the OP is suggesting is likely similar to many games (here I am using Black Ops as an example, which you should be familiar with), where you can choose emphasis on Locale, or just a "Best Results" option. In choosing the latter, I've gotten matched up with people from Mexico and Brazil (:smileyindifferent:), so it's not like your results are only limited to the US.

 

 

And you know that if your international friends were in your party, you'd still be able to play with them regardless, right? :smileywink:

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Treasure Hunter
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Not to mention that it's impossible to play as a random a...

Jun 10, 2011

 


Eugenides wrote:

 

I'm willing to bet that the majority of the population is much more concerned with having a minimal or lag-free experience than the potential to meet cool players every once in a while.

 

Not to mention that it's impossible to play as a random and strategize with your teammates since 90% of the time you won't even be speaking the same language due to lack of region filtering. Just one of the plethora of reasons I always play in a full party. My guess is that Ryan is concerned that he won't be able to play with his foreign friends that he met externally (i.e. not through the UC2 matchmaking system) which is almost never the case in region-filtered games.

 

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Sackboy
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-

Jun 10, 2011

 


ryaniscool47 wrote:

 

I will say, however, that I do not agree with the "Choose A Region" section.  One of the best components of playing this game, for me, has been playing with people from around the world.  Regardless of our cultural, political, or socio-economic backgrounds, we are brought together by how awesome we think this game is.  I have made several friends and met some truly wonderful people who I would NOT be able to play with were Uncharted 3 to feature some sort of region lock.  

 

Sure, the lag is regrettable, but I will deal with it if it means I get to play with my international friends.  


 

You'd still be able to play with all of your friends via party ryan.

 

A much better system instead of a flat-out region lock is letting players choose how matchmaking prioritizes searches (speed, connection, rank etc.). Many other games have this feature and it seems like it would fit UC3 perfectly.

 

 


thefiresidecat wrote:


You don't actually know that this system rewards the less skilled and punishes the skilled.

We do actually know, PowerPlays have been described in detail and we've seen plenty of footage of them over thelast week. 


you haven't seen it in play yet.

Um...E3? (PowerPlays).

 

I think it's more likely that the so called punishments are actually going to net in more kills for the skilled and the effectof hte power plays will be negligible.  

I'm curious how you think these boosters will be beneficial to skilled players and the PowerPlays will be "negligible". 


 

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Treasure Hunter
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.

Jun 11, 2011

 


tapantaola wrote:

 

OK, let's say we had a region filter on a continent base... what about Europe for example, which has dozens of languages?
Europe is a different situation entirely, but a region lock would at least cut down on the lag a little bit. Keep in mind that the largest component in the lag equation (at least when both players have serviceable IPs) is massive distances between players, placing huge lead times in the responsiveness of what's going on with one player's screen as compared to another. Making it so that players aren't getting matched across the Atlantic or Pacific would cut down on this tremendously.
In addition, people in Europe are normally bilingual, so the chances of these users understanding at least a little bit of other European languages is much higher than an American or Canadian who gets matched with someone from Germany, Italy, Poland, etc.

 

I don't agree with a region filter/lock (for different reasons though), so I'll repeat myself: give us a better matchmaking algorithm. We ALL want less lag. I am just proposing the best and least-obtrusive solution IMHO.

 

Why don't you agree with a region lock? A lot of the matchmaking algorithm has to do with matching players over the shortest distances possible already to reduce lag (and we all know how well that seems to work), so an actual lock on regions would be much more foolproof. With the expected huge rise in online players as compared to UC2, UC3 should be able to support such a chance without players having to wait unbearably long to get into a lobby.

 

ps: Also, randoms rarely ever use a mic. So, the language barrier should be the least of your concerns when you play alone.

 

It's true that more often than not that they don't, but I think that has less to do with them not having a mic and more being discouraged that they won't be able to communicate with anyone they're matched with due to language barriers. For instance, just about every unpartied player uses a mic in Call of Duty or even BF:BC2 these days because everyone in the lobby is speaking the same language. I found it easy to strategize with random players in my squad that I got matched with by chance in BC2 (the game also ran on dedicated servers, though).


.

 

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Sackboy
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I have no idea what you just said but it looks intelligen...

Jun 11, 2011

Reckless87o wrote:

So, I've been looking at a lot of the new additions to the multiplayer, and while it looks amazing so far, there have been a few things I noticed that I feel would still need a lot of work and issues that need to be addressed. Most of these have to do with the boosters, kickbacks, Power Plays (PP's) and a few other things.

 

I think a lot of the new additions are geared towards making the game less skill orientated and more random. A closer look at some of the new mechanics are really questionable, I think because they might be trying too hard to even the playing field, mainly by punishing the more skilled players and rewarding the less skilled players. They accomplish this by either directly punishing a good player, or by introducing too much random chance into the gameplay. Im all for making the multiplayer a crazier, more intense experience but some of these new additions have the potentail to drive it overboard. UC2 multiplayer was very competitive and I think the majority of players would like to see that carry into UC3. First on my list is Boosters.

 

Boosters - Slot 1

 

Come Here - See the opponent that killed you up to 15 meters until they die

  • I think this booster is just ridiculous. This booster, if it makes its way into the final version of the game, basically punishes a player for getting a kill on another player by letting the user see where they are until they die again. Why should I be punished because I got the best of you? The potential for abuse here is alarming. Think about what would happen if an entire team were using this booster. They'd basically be able to see where the opposing team was most of the time, and, an exceptional player on the opposing team who has a lot of kills, would probably have all eyes on him. Again, punished for being a good player, and it just doesnt seem fair.

Let Me See - Every two deaths allow you to see all opponents for 8 seconds

  • This is even worse than Come Here. NOW imagine an entire team of players using this. Kiss your chances of winning goodbye. What's even worse is that its only every two deaths, when something like this should probably only be activated after an "Unlucky" medal. The entire team knowing where EVERYONE is all the time? Please re-consider this.

Both of the above boosters are variations of SA, which I'm sure you know by now ND, most of the players want removed. Please re-consider these boosters.

 

Retaliation - Spawn with limited ammo when killed with a Power Weapon

  • This is also a problem. Much of what I enjoyed about the gameplay in UC2 was being able to party up with friends, work together and use strategies we had come up with,a nd use them in our matches. Much of the strategies revolved around the use of power weapons. Power weapons, in my eyes and I'm sure the eyes of many other players are a crucial part of many strategies, as the team who is the best at controlling their use on a given map are usually the winning team. They are also very useful in being able to turn the tides of a match for a losing team. If this booster makes it into the final version of the game, you're basically going to destroy that. Its going to put less emphasis on strategizing and working together, because if I can just spawn with a rocket launcher, why would I even bother to risk my life trying to get it before the other team. It cancels out. And think about if this was combined with something like the RPG Kickback.

Booster - Slot 2

Power Hunter - See the location of Power Weapons within 10 meters (Required Rank: 7)

  •     This booster isn't so bad by itself, but it could be if combined with Retaliation and an RPG Kickback. Again this could really take away from the emphasis of working together (and probably indirectly, your buddy system) if people are allowed to run around the map with a power weapon in their hands half of the time. Also, it just seems very random and out of place, but thats just my subjective opinion.

For My Buddy - See the location of the opponent that killed your buddy until they die

  • I didnt want to include this, because Im really excited about the buddy system and cannot wait to use it, but this is a third variation of SA. Again a booster NOBODY wanted to see return.

Medal Kickbacks

 

Militia Man - No reloading for 30 second. Costs 5 medals.

  • Nothng to see here. I was wrong about this one

Power Plays

 

     Before I get started on these, let me just state that I do like the idea of power plays.I think they are a great idea that will definitely add a lot of variation and complexity to the multiplayer, as well as encourage teamwork. But there is a lot that could go wrong with PP's if they arent very carefully thought about and balanced. I think the biggest issue would be exploitation of PP's by teams of players.

 

     One thing I noticed in the E3 footage was that a PP was activated when the score was only 11-5. Now, I'm not sure if thats the way it was because you guys just wanted to show it off to the public, or if that's how you guys want it to be, but there a few issues I have with it.

 

     First, 11-5 is only a 6 point lead by the winning team. I read in an interview with one of your employees that PP's were put in place to prevent "blowout" wins by the winning team and to give the losing team a chance to catch up and close the gap. A 6 point lead is hardly a "blowout". If PP's were to be activated at such a small gap, what's to stop a team from intentionally sacrificing a few of their lives just to earn a PP when they were down? They could in theory just keep doing it over and over until they won the match.

 

My ideal "requiremements" for the PP's would be as follows;

 

1. PP's are only activated after the halfway point in a match. This will avoid PP's being activated after only a small lead and this way, the winning team doesnt have to constantly defend its lead for the whole duration of a match or resort to cheap methods to stay ahead. This is one of those instances where I think it may seem like the winning team is being punished for being better.

 

2.PP's are only activated after at least a 10 point lead. Lets face it, a 6 point lead isnt much of a "lead". Otherwise the system will favor those who are weaker players and punish those who are better at the game, simply because they are better. Couple this with PP's being available for the entire game and this quickly becomes unbalanced. I dont think the game will be as fun if the superior team has to constantly fight to keep the lead they earned fair and square. The game shouldnt be designed to hold the hands of weak players (although a little help is never a bad thing :smileyhappy:)

 

3.PP's should only be actuvated a limited number of times per match. Im thinking 1-2 is a fair number.

 

Choosing a Region

 

A feature that many players have been hoping for. One of the most frustrating aspects of UC2's multiplayer was having to play people from across the world, becasue if the differences in connection speed. It's really no fun to have to continually play against people from different countries because most of the time the distance causes lag in the game that is not enjoyable for the players in either country.It gets frustrating very quickly, as, for example I played 4 matches in a row today with players from what I'm assuming is South America and it was beyond aggrevating to play against people who were able to kill me much more quickly than I them, because of the lag. Just very, very frustrating.

 

Matchmaking

 

I think this system needs to be more selective. Simply put, it needs to do a better job at selecting players who are  more similar to one another in rank. I know that you guys (ND) want to make this game a little more friendly towards less skilled and casual players, so I think this is something that if implemented, would be really beneficial.

 

In closing...

 

   Most of the issues with the new additions are the potential for abuse when they are piled on top of one another. A lot of the ideas are great, but I just think they need to be tweaked, changed an moved around a bit just so that everything balances itself out as best as it can. I'm also aware of how difficult that must be. I know that we havent even gotten the chance to play the beta yet, but I just felt I needed to bring it up beforehand and to maybe see what everyone else was thinking.

 

As it stands, I am really excited for this game regardless and will definitely be purchasing it no matter what. I'm also super pysched about the LAN capabilities that have been added, because I've been wishing for them since UC2 came out.

 

 

 


I have no idea what you just said but it looks intelligent to me. KUDOS!

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Ghost of Sparta
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@pdiss88   I'll quote a former post of me: Furthermore, t...

Jun 11, 2011

@pdiss88

 

I'll quote a former post of me:


tapantaola wrote:

 

Regional locks/filters aren't the best solution and sometimes players abuse them (KZ3 comes to mind).

 

I would prefer a more sophisticated matchmaking algorithm, which would take into account many parameters (i.e. lag relative to other players, UL speed, NAT Type and UPnP status, ethernet or wifi connection etc.)


Furthermore, there are some neighbouring countries which belong in entirely different continents.

 

For example: Greece (Europe), Egypt (Africa), Turkey (Asia).

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/The-Last-of-Us-Multiplayer/Ping-filter-toggle-SUPPORT-for-less-lag/m-p/40782623
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Fender Bender
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Pretty much agree with everything you said kiddo.   Anoth...

Jun 11, 2011

Pretty much agree with everything you said kiddo.

 

Another booster I am concerned about is the one with regenerating health. One thing I am aware of is the fact that not all boosters will be avaible to the player in the beta. Kinda wish they all were...

 

I really hope they do regions. Then if someones laggy I don't have to go throwing the classic phrase of halfway across the world, then their just flat out lagging.

 

I am also concrened about this whole power play bussiness. I would assume Naughty Dog would have the sense about how to impliment them wisely. I don't see myself enjoying a game of constant power plays ever 2 minutes....

 

Looking forward to LAN too.

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Treasure Hunter
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As far as regional filters being abused in games such as...

Jun 11, 2011

 


tapantaola wrote:

@pdiss88

 

I'll quote a former post of me:


tapantaola wrote:

 

Regional locks/filters aren't the best solution and sometimes players abuse them (KZ3 comes to mind).

 

I would prefer a more sophisticated matchmaking algorithm, which would take into account many parameters (i.e. lag relative to other players, UL speed, NAT Type and UPnP status, ethernet or wifi connection etc.)


Furthermore, there are some neighbouring countries which belong in entirely different continents.

 

For example: Greece (Europe), Egypt (Africa), Turkey (Asia).


 

As far as regional filters being abused in games such as KZ3, that's one thing. However, there wouldn't be as many issues if the game autodetected your region based off of your ISP. Dead Nation comes to mind as a game that does this.

 

As for neighboring countries, where can we draw the line on what's in the area and what isn't? Every country (with the exception of peninsulas and islands) has multiple neighbors. Germany is a neighbor of Poland which is a neighbor of Ukraine which is a neighbor of Russia which is a neighbor of China...pretty soon, you've got no filter whatsoever and you're back to UC2-style matchmaking if you don't make some sort of reasonable cutoff to reduce distances.

 

I understand that you have some misgivings about this sort of system, but I'm assuming if there was an easier and less discriminatory way to fix the matchmaking and reduce lag, ND would have done it already.

 

Then again, they did change the matchmaking to look for players of similar level which is really where the lag started becoming an issue for me, so maybe not.

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I Only Post Everything
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Does Daredevil apply to power weapons as well? Daredevi...

Jun 11, 2011

Does Daredevil apply to power weapons as well?


Daredevil - When you taunt over a defeated opponent, you get extra ammo.


Because it usually takes only one shot to kill enemies while carrying an RPG (unless you're really bad or unlucky,) so can a player just rinse and repeat with this booster on? And if they run out of ammo on the RPG, can they use their secondary to defeat an opponent and still get a rocket back? (If your secondary is a Desert-5 it shouldn't be too hard.)


It will be even more obnoxious when they taunt over my body to get their rocket back. :smileysad:

Will screaming at the television affect my team's chance of winning?
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