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Jun 01 2013
By: Matthijs_17 Fender Bender 3588 posts
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Naughty Dog will not make a new engine for their PS4 games (yet)

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13 replies 476 views Edited Jun 1, 2013

 

Naughty Dog said that they will keep the engine that they use for the Uncharted and The Last of Us, the reason they have is that everything currently works fine and there is no reason (yet) for improvement, this has two consequences according to me, one good one, and one bad one, let's start with the bad one:

 

- Naughty Dogs games are currently the best looking ones, but if they stay with this engine, they won't look much better on the PS4, which is disappointing, I actually find it a weird decision, because Naughty Dog has the ICE-team, a special team that focusses on the technical stuff to get the best visual result possible, sure the games will look better, but not as good as they could be, sadly Smiley Sad

 

now the good one:

 

+ making a new enging costs a lot of time and resources, now that it is clear that they won't make a new engine (yet), means that a ps4 game from Naughty Dog could be right around the corner (Uncharted 4!!!), it takes Naughty Dog 2 years to make an Uncharted game, so if we're lucky, we see an announcement at E3 2013, and Uncharted 4 will come as a launch title for the PS4, which is great, as long as it isn't full of glitches like Uncharted 3, but they have The Last of Us team to assist them for the last 4 months, so that should help a little, hopefully Smiley Happy

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Sackboy
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't wo

Jun 1, 2013

Don't worry about the graphics, they have way more power to work with now.

 

And their engine is in the top of their league anyway, graphically that is, not looking at the amount of glitches the Naughty Dog games have.

 

You could see what Killzone SF looked like, and that demo was only using half of the memory capacity of the ps4.

And Sony is pushing all devs to have 1080p, 60 fps...

 

And they said they would update the engine where needed.. Smiley Happy 

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Fender Bender
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Re: 't wo

Jun 1, 2013

IzunaShisui wrote:

Don't worry about the graphics, they have way more power to work with now.

 

And their engine is in the top of their league anyway, graphically that is, not looking at the amount of glitches the Naughty Dog games have.

 

You could see what Killzone SF looked like, and that demo was only using half of the memory capacity of the ps4.

And Sony is pushing all devs to have 1080p, 60 fps...

 

And they said they would update the engine where needed.. Smiley Happy 


yeah I'm not upset by it or something, it's just not going to improve that much, but we do get a new game sooner Smiley Wink

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Gaming Beast
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Re: 't wo

Jun 1, 2013

Naughty Dog uses a top notch engine and with some modifications here and there it can survive a couple more years. Look at IDtech3 engine it's out of 1999 and was still used for CoD untill BO 2 I think.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: 't wo

Jun 1, 2013

They engine hasn't been fully utilized due the PS3's limitations so they will simply tweak it, anyways here is a quote to better explain it.

 

Game director Bruce Straley explained how it won't repeat past mistakes of developing a new engine from scratch for a new console generation, as it did when it started work on Uncharted for the PS3."We learned a big lesson coming from PS2 to PS3," he told Digital Spy.

 

"There was a lot of hype over what next-gen was going to be. It was all going to be like movies, like a pre-rendered cutscene-style fidelity.

 

"That turned out not to be true. Granted, what we're able to do now is pretty **bleep** close, but it took Naughty Dog four games to get there - one of the top developers in the industry with some on the most amazing scientists working in our programming department."

 

"We scrapped everything at the beginning of Uncharted 1, and we had a perfectly good engine with the Jak & Daxter franchise.

"Again, we were creating a new IP, with a new engine, with a lot of weird expectations. Nobody had a dev kit soon enough, and as we all know, trying to figure out how to programme for a whole new piece of hardware was really difficult.

 

Straley continued: "We learned our lesson in saying, as we move into development into next-gen, we want to take our current engine, port it immediately over as is and say, 'Okay, we have a great AI system, we have a good rendering system'.

 

"We have all these things that already work. Only when we hit a wall will we say, 'When do we need to change something? When do we need to scale it?

 

"'When does the gameplay, when does the story, when does the world that we need to create - when does this engine hit the wall? Right, now we need to change this part of the engine.'

 

 

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Fender Bender
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Re: 't wo

Jun 1, 2013

Joe-Itz070 wrote:

Naughty Dog uses a top notch engine and with some modifications here and there it can survive a couple more years. Look at IDtech3 engine it's out of 1999 and was still used for CoD untill BO 2 I think.


I must say that CoD looks extremely bad for today's standards, even the supposedly new engine doesn't look as good as some current gen engines Smiley Wink

 

but I get what you're saying, and Naughty Dog's current engine is awesome enough to go for another few years, and I don't say it's a bad move (because we will get maybe a Naughty Dog ps4 launch title (Uncharted 4!!! Smiley Tongue), but Naughty Dog is known for it's perfection (with the exception of Uncharted 3 that is...), and the first PS4 game(s) they create could look better with a new engine Smiley Happy

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Ghost of Sparta
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Re: 't wo

[ Edited ]
Jun 1, 2013

It's technically impossible to use the exact same graphics engine on the PS4. Why?

Because it's heavily based on Cell. There are probably thousands of low-level assembly source code lines for the SPUs. Those will need to be rewritten for the CUs (GPGPU programming).

So, ND probably means that they will keep the established GPU shader programming model from the previous generation, although that will require some modifications as well:

 

RSX -> DX9 feature set -> separate pixel/vertex shader pipelines to Radeon GCN -> DX11 feature set -> unified pixel/vertex/geometry shaders & tesselation.

During the PS2 -> PS3 transition they had faced a lot of difficulties, because they had to learn an entirely new programming paradigm. GS (Graphics Synthesizer) didn't support shaders, so they had to learn a lot of new stuff. It won't be the same this time around.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2011/12/19/naughty-dog-terrified-by-playstation-4

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/The-Last-of-Us-Multiplayer/Ping-filter-toggle-SUPPORT-for-less-lag/m-p/40782623
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Fender Bender
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Re: 't wo

Jun 1, 2013

tapantaola wrote:

It's technically impossible to use the exact same graphics engine on the PS4. Why?

Because it's heavily based on Cell. There are probably thousands of low-level assembly source code lines for the SPUs. Those will need to be rewritten for the CUs (GPGPU programming).

So, ND probably means that they will keep the established GPU shader programming model from the previous generation, although that will require some modifications as well:

 

RSX -> DX9 feature set -> separate pixel/vertex shader pipelines to Radeon GCN -> DX11 feature set -> unified pixel/vertex/geometry shaders & tesselation.

During the PS2 -> PS3 transition they had faced a lot of difficulties, because they had to learn an entirely new programming paradigm. GS (Graphics Synthesizer) didn't support shaders, so they had to learn a lot of new stuff. It won't be the same this time around.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2011/12/19/naughty-dog-terrified-by-playstation-4


you are such. a. nerd. Smiley Tongue (in a good way Smiley Happy )

 

but I do know about this Cell stuff and all, and now they are going to PC architecture to please developers this time around, instead of making their own architecture and while it's good hardware if I take a look at the exclusives we have, it is also a pain in the **bleep** for developers apparently...

 

the link you gave me btw is from 2011, which is 2 years ago, I think Naughty Dog didn't even knew what architecture the ps4 might have so that's why they say they are afraid for it in your link, and I'm pretty sure they didn't know back then because I recently saw an interview with Sucker Punch who said that they went to talk to Sony at the end of the InFamous 2 DLC (which released at the same time as the link you posted) with the idea to work on a next-gen game (InFamous Second Son), but they didn't even know anything about the PS4 yet, so Naughty Dog wouldn't have known either, they just were afraid because PS2 -> PS3 was so difficult for them...

 

anyway, if the PS4 is so developer friendly, than Naughty Dog shouldn't have problems with it I think Smiley Wink

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Ghost of Sparta
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Re: 't wo

Jun 1, 2013


Matthijs_17 wrote:

the link you gave me btw is from 2011, which is 2 years ago, I think Naughty Dog didn't even knew what architecture the ps4 might have so that's why they say they are afraid for it in your link, and I'm pretty sure they didn't know back then because I recently saw an interview with Sucker Punch who said that they went to talk to Sony at the end of the InFamous 2 DLC (which released at the same time as the link you posted) with the idea to work on a next-gen game (InFamous Second Son), but they didn't even know anything about the PS4 yet, so Naughty Dog wouldn't have known either, they just were afraid because PS2 -> PS3 was so difficult for them...


Not really.

1st party developers actually shaped the console's architecture this time around.

Mark Cerny was determined since 2007 that the PS4 should be based on x86 architecture. He even asked developers about what features should a next-gen console have. Most of them wanted 8 CPU cores and 8GB of RAM.

You didn't expect ND to admit back in 2011 that the PS4 was under development, right? Smiley Tongue Just like you don't expect them to admit that they *might* be developing Uncharted 4 as we speaking right now. Smiley Wink

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/The-Last-of-Us-Multiplayer/Ping-filter-toggle-SUPPORT-for-less-lag/m-p/40782623
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Fender Bender
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Re: 't wo

Jun 1, 2013

tapantaola wrote:


Matthijs_17 wrote:

the link you gave me btw is from 2011, which is 2 years ago, I think Naughty Dog didn't even knew what architecture the ps4 might have so that's why they say they are afraid for it in your link, and I'm pretty sure they didn't know back then because I recently saw an interview with Sucker Punch who said that they went to talk to Sony at the end of the InFamous 2 DLC (which released at the same time as the link you posted) with the idea to work on a next-gen game (InFamous Second Son), but they didn't even know anything about the PS4 yet, so Naughty Dog wouldn't have known either, they just were afraid because PS2 -> PS3 was so difficult for them...


Not really.

1st party developers actually shaped the console's architecture this time around.

Mark Cerny was determined since 2007 that the PS4 should be based on x86 architecture. He even asked developers about what features should a next-gen console have. Most of them wanted 8 CPU cores and 8GB of RAM.

You didn't expect ND to admit back in 2011 that the PS4 was under development, right? Smiley Tongue Just like you don't expect them to admit that they *might* be developing Uncharted 4 as we speaking right now. Smiley Wink


no, it was Sucker Punch who said that, they talked in a recent interview with gameinformer about a few years ago, and that they didn't knew anything about the ps4 yet (at the same time as your article), and Sucker Punch is also a 1st party developer Smiley Wink

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