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Feb 13 2013
By: tapantaola Ghost of Sparta 13011 posts
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Symmetric NAT breaks online gaming

37 replies 1579 views Edited Feb 13, 2013

p2p games like Uncharted use a protocol called STUN, which is not compatible with routers that use Symmetric NAT (i.e. Thomson/Technicolor models and some enterprize routers).

I wonder if Uncharted netcode can be reprogrammed to use TURN as well (an alternative to STUN). Popular p2p apps (such as uTorrent, Skype and Macromedia Flash) can use both protocols (STUN & TURN).

Some routers can be configured to use "Full cone NAT", which works fine with STUN, but not everyone can do that (you need telnet access and an admin account).

 

TLOU MP will have the same problem if it's p2p-based. So ND, is there any possibility to fix it?


References:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STUN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traversal_Using_Relay_NAT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation#Methods_of_Port_translation

 

WARNING: do me a favour and don't blame p2p if you are ignorant about this issue. I don't need any dedicated server preach here. We use a 30-year old protocol (IPv4) which was never designed for commodity internet access (p2p didn't even exist back then) and that's why are forced to use NAT and share public IP addresses. IPv6 will solve these issues once and for all, but it will take a few decades to be deployed worldwide.

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/The-Last-of-Us-Multiplayer/Ping-filter-toggle-SUPPORT-for-less-lag/m-p/40782623
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Sackboy
Registered: 06/30/2011
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Re: Symmetric NAT breaks online gaming

Feb 13, 2013

I bet, there is the problem burried I have with not being able to join some partys of hear people in my party. I already changed router, set it to directly forward to ps3 and such, from my side I can not do anything else more to get rid of the connection problems. And also it is probably the root of all those removed from game/party issues I have lately.

 

Make it happen! Please?

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Ghost of Sparta
Registered: 11/28/2009
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Re: Symmetric NAT breaks online gaming

Feb 13, 2013

Which router do you have?

 

I have Technicolor TG788vn and although I have forwarded all necessary ports, I would still see NAT Type 3. Not even UPnP helped.

 

The solution was to pester my ISP to enter some commands via telnet (command line interface) and change Symmetric NAT to Full cone NAT for certain UDP ports:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1739702

 

In certain countries/ISPs (Netherlands/KPN) Symmetric NAT seems to be quite popular: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/533176

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/The-Last-of-Us-Multiplayer/Ping-filter-toggle-SUPPORT-for-less-lag/m-p/40782623
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Survivor
Registered: 08/21/2011
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Re: Symmetric NAT breaks online gaming

Feb 13, 2013

I don't know much about this. But now we are talking about NAT anyway, I can never connect with Matthijs(_17). Not sometimes but never. I have NAT type 2 and he has 3(the wrong one I know). Do you have tips for this?

 

Congrats on reaching the Last Guardian rank btw :smileyhappy:

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Ghost of Sparta
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Re: Symmetric NAT breaks online gaming

Feb 13, 2013

Hielke6991 wrote:

 

I can never connect with Matthijs(_17). Not sometimes but never. I have NAT type 2 and he has 3(the wrong one I know). Do you have tips for this?


Yep, check my 2nd post.

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/The-Last-of-Us-Multiplayer/Ping-filter-toggle-SUPPORT-for-less-lag/m-p/40782623
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Fender Bender
Registered: 04/27/2010
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Re: Symmetric NAT breaks online gaming

[ Edited ]
Feb 13, 2013

Excellent and of course intelligent thread from tapantaola. :smileyhappy: 

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Survivor
Registered: 08/21/2011
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Re: Symmetric NAT breaks online gaming

Feb 13, 2013

tapantaola wrote:

Hielke6991 wrote:

 

I can never connect with Matthijs(_17). Not sometimes but never. I have NAT type 2 and he has 3(the wrong one I know). Do you have tips for this?


Yep, check my 2nd post.


Oh sorry, I'm hasty sometimes. Pressed reply right after reading the OP :smileytongue:

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Survivor
Registered: 04/14/2010
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Re: Symmetric NAT breaks online gaming

Feb 13, 2013
Interesting. I've never had or seen that issue with always getting NAT 3 when it should just be NAT 2.

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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 05/13/2010
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Re: Symmetric NAT breaks online gaming

Feb 13, 2013
@GlowzorCometh after all the things you've done to optimize your FiOS, you still have NAT 2? Didn't you DMZ/port forward?
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Ghost of Sparta
Registered: 11/28/2009
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Re: Symmetric NAT breaks online gaming

[ Edited ]
Feb 14, 2013

xxBLiTZKREIGxx wrote:
@GlowzorCometh after all the things you've done to optimize your FiOS, you still have NAT 2? Didn't you DMZ/port forward?

What is wrong with NAT Type 2? It's the best possible setup and yes, you need to port forward, otherwise you will have NAT Type 3 (NAT strict), which doesn't allow you to become the host, makes host migration more tricky (=more random disconnections) and it's also harder to find compatible players/hosts (=more lag).

Some may argue that NAT Type 1 is better, but this isn't true... having a public IP address breaks a lot of applications (Remote Play, LBP2 Cross Controller etc.) which require a private IP address, not to mention that your PS3 is wide open for all sorts of attacks (this applies to DMZ as well).

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/The-Last-of-Us-Multiplayer/Ping-filter-toggle-SUPPORT-for-less-lag/m-p/40782623
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