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Re: UC3 = Bad Code

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Dec 29, 2013

wycliff_12 wrote:

Aureilia wrote:

Blennerville wrote:
^^ UC2 got the core gameplay fundamentals right.

Definately.

 

I'm hoping the new Uncharted takes a step backwards in gameplay from Uncharted 3 and adds more maps. No more DLC maps either.

 


there's around 22 Maps in UC3 do we really need more in than 22 in UC4? 

 

And DLC Maps are here to stay lets hope they go the way of Killzone & release them free & sell character items & Co-op Story add ons as it does cost money to make maps. 


 

im hoping they remove the bad maps like caves, desert village, and maybe keep some maps limited to cetain modes like Free for all, TO,  3-team (id rather 4-team)

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Re: UC3 = Bad Code

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Jan 2, 2014

wycliff_12 wrote:

@Blennerville 

 

Okay well with COD there was only so much they could drastically change but i'll say this if you go play COD Modern Warfare & then play Modern Warfare 2 it felt like two different games that's when all the killstreaks & all that stuff came in. UC2 was ND's first venture into online gaming maybe they weren't satisfied with UC2 & decided to go back to the drawing board. I think we should just view each game as a stand alone product really makes no sense to keep comparing them. 

 



the netcode was better in UC2 imo.

 

the only difference i found between the modern warfare 2 and 1 was that when I went back to 1 it was harder to kill people, (the aiming required more from the player which is a good thing imo)

The thing about the killstreaks and all the other stuff is that it is not part of the core mechanics of the gameplay - Moving, shooting etc., yes it effects how the game plays but they were just added to what was already there - All the COD's since COD4 have the same foundations - COD4 is at their foundations.

The games are sequels, it would be madness to start from scratch every time.

 

Look at UC2 single player - it build  UC1's mechanics - the movement and climbing is the same, the shooting is the same design(though more refined), and new grenade mechanics were added, but really both game play the same. UC3 single player does not play the same as it has different core mechanics.

I have no doubt that if the same exact team(a better team) was working on UC2 single player was working on UC3 single player then it would have built on UC2.

They had a good thing going after UC2 MP but obviously UC3 MP had to use the gameplay mechanics from UC3 single player, and therein lies the problem.

 

They went back to the drawing board (scraping what was already near perfected) and created new mechanics what much worse than what was in UC2.

 

I just hope they get it right with UC4.

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Re: UC3 = Bad Code

Dec 30, 2013

wycliff_12 wrote:

Aureilia wrote:

Blennerville wrote:
^^ UC2 got the core gameplay fundamentals right.

Definately.

 

I'm hoping the new Uncharted takes a step backwards in gameplay from Uncharted 3 and adds more maps. No more DLC maps either.

 


there's around 22 Maps in UC3 do we really need more in than 22 in UC4? 

 

And DLC Maps are here to stay lets hope they go the way of Killzone & release them free & sell character items & Co-op Story add ons as it does cost money to make maps. 


How many of those are bad and not optimized properly for Uncharted 3? about 17 of them. We only have about 5 decent maps.

 

We could do with deleting 17 and adding roughly another 10.



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Re: UC3 = Bad Code

Dec 30, 2013

Blennerville wrote:

wycliff_12 wrote:

Aureilia wrote:

Blennerville wrote:
^^ UC2 got the core gameplay fundamentals right.

Definately.

 

I'm hoping the new Uncharted takes a step backwards in gameplay from Uncharted 3 and adds more maps. No more DLC maps either.

 


there's around 22 Maps in UC3 do we really need more in than 22 in UC4? 

 

And DLC Maps are here to stay lets hope they go the way of Killzone & release them free & sell character items & Co-op Story add ons as it does cost money to make maps. 


 

im hoping they remove the bad maps like caves, desert village, and maybe keep some maps limited to cetain modes like Free for all, TO,  3-team (id rather 4-team)


 I highly doubt you will be seeing most of the current maps in the next UC. I also expect them to increase the player count hopefully to 16 players so I can't see certain maps working.

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Re: UC3 = Bad Code

Dec 30, 2013

Aureilia wrote:

wycliff_12 wrote:

Aureilia wrote:

Blennerville wrote:
^^ UC2 got the core gameplay fundamentals right.

Definately.

 

I'm hoping the new Uncharted takes a step backwards in gameplay from Uncharted 3 and adds more maps. No more DLC maps either.

 


there's around 22 Maps in UC3 do we really need more in than 22 in UC4? 

 

And DLC Maps are here to stay lets hope they go the way of Killzone & release them free & sell character items & Co-op Story add ons as it does cost money to make maps. 


How many of those are bad and not optimized properly for Uncharted 3? about 17 of them. We only have about 5 decent maps.

 

We could do with deleting 17 and adding roughly another 10.


lol we never see eye to eye it seems.

 

Can you list the 5 decent maps?

 

I disagree by the way about majority of the maps not being properly optimized, a few of them for sure but 17? That's a bit of a reach don't ya think?

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Re: UC3 = Bad Code

Dec 30, 2013

Blennerville wrote:

wycliff_12 wrote:

@Blennerville 

 

Okay well with COD there was only so much they could drastically change but i'll say this if you go play COD Modern Warfare & then play Modern Warfare 2 it felt like two different games that's when all the killstreaks & all that stuff came in. UC2 was ND's first venture into online gaming maybe they weren't satisfied with UC2 & decided to go back to the drawing board. I think we should just view each game as a stand alone product really makes no sense to keep comparing them. 

 



the netcode was better in UC2, its a lot worse in UC3 imo.

 

the only difference i found between the modern warfare 2 and 1 was that when I went back to 1 it was harder to kill people, (the aiming required more from the player which is a good thing imo)

The thing about the killstreaks and all the other stuff is that it is not part of the core mechanics of the gameplay - Moving, shooting etc., yes it effects how the game plays but they were just added to what was already there - All the COD's since COD4 have the same foundations - COD4 is at their foundations.

The games are sequels, it would be madness to start from scratch every time.

 

Look at UC2 single player - it build  UC1's mechanics - the movement and climbing is the same, the shooting is the same design(though more refined), and new grenade mechanics were added, but really both game play the same. UC3 single player does not play the same as it has different core mechanics.

I have no doubt that if the same exact team(a better team) was working on UC2 single player was working on UC3 single player then it would have built on UC2.

They had a good thing going after UC2 MP but obviously UC3 MP had to use the gameplay mechanics from UC3 single player, and therein lies the problem.

 

They went back to the drawing board (scraping what was already near perfected) and created new mechanics what much worse than what was in UC2.

 

I just hope they get it right with UC4,im not too optimistic when I see Justin Richmond as game director (same team as UC3) but hopefully they will have learned something.


Doesn't UC2, UC3 & TLOU pretty much use the same net code? Smiley Indifferent 

 

But it's simply not fair to compare an FPS  to a TPS cover based shooter. The formula for COD has remained unchanged for the most part because there's only so little they can change pertaining to the actual gameplay unlike say Uncharted or Gears. 

 

Yes they changed alot of things from UC2 > 3 but IMO the positives outweigh the negative. Sometimes I feel like nostalgia clouts alot of peoples perception on UC3.  It has all the core mechanics of UC2.

 

Default movement speed is a bit faster in UC3 SP but I think UC3 is closer to UC2 in gameplay mechanics unlike UC1 > UC2. Except for aiming mechanics & slightly faster gameplay is there really that much of a difference between UC2 & UC3?

 

Well i'm glad they went back to the drawing board because UC3 MP > UC2 MP. 

 

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Re: UC3 = Bad Code

Dec 30, 2013

wycliff_12 wrote:

Aureilia wrote:

wycliff_12 wrote:

Aureilia wrote:

Blennerville wrote:
^^ UC2 got the core gameplay fundamentals right.

Definately.

 

I'm hoping the new Uncharted takes a step backwards in gameplay from Uncharted 3 and adds more maps. No more DLC maps either.

 


there's around 22 Maps in UC3 do we really need more in than 22 in UC4? 

 

And DLC Maps are here to stay lets hope they go the way of Killzone & release them free & sell character items & Co-op Story add ons as it does cost money to make maps. 


How many of those are bad and not optimized properly for Uncharted 3? about 17 of them. We only have about 5 decent maps.

 

We could do with deleting 17 and adding roughly another 10.


lol we never see eye to eye it seems.

 

Can you list the 5 decent maps?

 

I disagree by the way about majority of the maps not being properly optimized, a few of them for sure but 17? That's a bit of a reach don't ya think?


Old Quarter

Temple

London Underground

Airport

Facility

 

The rest feel far too open or too small for a game of this pace.



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Re: UC3 = Bad Code

[ Edited ]
Dec 30, 2013

wycliff_12 wrote:

Blennerville wrote:

wycliff_12 wrote:

@Blennerville 

 

Okay well with COD there was only so much they could drastically change but i'll say this if you go play COD Modern Warfare & then play Modern Warfare 2 it felt like two different games that's when all the killstreaks & all that stuff came in. UC2 was ND's first venture into online gaming maybe they weren't satisfied with UC2 & decided to go back to the drawing board. I think we should just view each game as a stand alone product really makes no sense to keep comparing them. 

 



the netcode was better in UC2, its a lot worse in UC3 imo.

 

the only difference i found between the modern warfare 2 and 1 was that when I went back to 1 it was harder to kill people, (the aiming required more from the player which is a good thing imo)

The thing about the killstreaks and all the other stuff is that it is not part of the core mechanics of the gameplay - Moving, shooting etc., yes it effects how the game plays but they were just added to what was already there - All the COD's since COD4 have the same foundations - COD4 is at their foundations.

The games are sequels, it would be madness to start from scratch every time.

 

Look at UC2 single player - it build  UC1's mechanics - the movement and climbing is the same, the shooting is the same design(though more refined), and new grenade mechanics were added, but really both game play the same. UC3 single player does not play the same as it has different core mechanics.

I have no doubt that if the same exact team(a better team) was working on UC2 single player was working on UC3 single player then it would have built on UC2.

They had a good thing going after UC2 MP but obviously UC3 MP had to use the gameplay mechanics from UC3 single player, and therein lies the problem.

 

They went back to the drawing board (scraping what was already near perfected) and created new mechanics what much worse than what was in UC2.

 

I just hope they get it right with UC4,im not too optimistic when I see Justin Richmond as game director (same team as UC3) but hopefully they will have learned something.


Doesn't UC2, UC3 & TLOU pretty much use the same net code? Smiley Indifferent 

 

But it's simply not fair to compare an FPS  to a TPS cover based shooter. The formula for COD has remained unchanged for the most part because there's only so little they can change pertaining to the actual gameplay unlike say Uncharted or Gears. 

 

Yes they changed alot of things from UC2 > 3 but IMO the positives outweigh the negative. Sometimes I feel like nostalgia clouts alot of peoples perception on UC3.  It has all the core mechanics of UC2.

 

Default movement speed is a bit faster in UC3 SP but I think UC3 is closer to UC2 in gameplay mechanics unlike UC1 > UC2. Except for aiming mechanics & slightly faster gameplay is there really that much of a difference between UC2 & UC3?

 

Well i'm glad they went back to the drawing board because UC3 MP > UC2 MP. 

 




 

 

Yes, there is a big difference between the two, UC2 is head, shoulders and waist above UC3 in terms of gameplay and mechanics - deathmatch, plunder, TO (all objective modes) all play much better in UC2, especially plunder (its pales in comparison with UC2 back in the day). The core mechanics are SIMILAR to UC2's, but they are just not on the same level as UC2's.
Gears (TPS) like COD built on the original unlike UC3 which designed the core mechanics from the ground up again (and only reached waist height on UC2 mechanics).

if you wouldnt mind listing the positives, please do, id like to argue them since imo they are only a handful compared to the negatives and the positives are only minor things for the most part.

When the default movement, Climbing, Jumping, Cover, Shooting, Physics and visuals (basically the most important and core of the gameplay) are all worse, the few positives dont have much sway. if treasures/throphies, stat hats, character weapons, legacy, Stars, tournament prizes etc. are why people like UC3 more then i cant believe it (3 team and free for all I agree add something).

imo UC2 was/is faster paced compared to UC3, again thats in relation to movemet climbing and shooting, you had to be completely aware of everything going on around you.
UC3's pace was artificially sped up after the summer beta - the beta play noticeably slower than UC2 but that was ok because of the way the game was designed (mechanics), it slower pace suited the game.
They overclocked the pacing (mainly due to power weapon kickbacks and the sprint change) and now it just doesnt flow fluidly like it did in the beta or like UC2 did - This fast paced (overclocked) gameplay is what destroys the gameplay for me - if it had been left like it was in the beta then it would have been much better.

Do you like the UC3 single player more than UC2's?


Like i said in the OP - I wouldnt mind all this extra stuff UC3 has if it was built on UC2's foundation - why didnt they just use UC2 as a base of mechanics and add all that stuff to it ??

 

Id be happy with 6v6 as it would work well with the good maps we already have it wouldnt require more complicated/larger map design than some of the maps we already have.

Here are a few maps that feel dont play well in UC3 deathmatch - Village, Temple, Caves, Desert Village, Syria, London Underground, Chateau, Dry docks, Graveyard, Oasis, London Streets, City of brass - some are not as bad as others - Maybe some could be kept for modes like TO, 3-team(Hopefully it will be 4-team instead) and free For All.

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Re: UC3 = Bad Code

Dec 30, 2013

Aureilia wrote:

wycliff_12 wrote:

Aureilia wrote:

wycliff_12 wrote:

Aureilia wrote:

Blennerville wrote:
^^ UC2 got the core gameplay fundamentals right.

Definately.

 

I'm hoping the new Uncharted takes a step backwards in gameplay from Uncharted 3 and adds more maps. No more DLC maps either.

 


there's around 22 Maps in UC3 do we really need more in than 22 in UC4? 

 

And DLC Maps are here to stay lets hope they go the way of Killzone & release them free & sell character items & Co-op Story add ons as it does cost money to make maps. 


How many of those are bad and not optimized properly for Uncharted 3? about 17 of them. We only have about 5 decent maps.

 

We could do with deleting 17 and adding roughly another 10.


lol we never see eye to eye it seems.

 

Can you list the 5 decent maps?

 

I disagree by the way about majority of the maps not being properly optimized, a few of them for sure but 17? That's a bit of a reach don't ya think?


Old Quarter

Temple

London Underground

Airport

Facility

 

The rest feel far too open or too small for a game of this pace.


Old Quarter is a fantastic Map, so is Airstrip & Facility. 

London Underground is good especially for Objective modes.

But Temple? I hate it.

 

But how can you say maps like: 

 

Yemen - Best Map In UC3 'IMO'

Fort 

Train Wreck

Plaza 

Molten Ruins

High Rise

Village

 

Arn't optimized properly I think every Map shines in specific game modes.

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Re: UC3 = Bad Code

Dec 30, 2013

Blennerville wrote:

wycliff_12 wrote:

Blennerville wrote:

wycliff_12 wrote:

@Blennerville 

 

Okay well with COD there was only so much they could drastically change but i'll say this if you go play COD Modern Warfare & then play Modern Warfare 2 it felt like two different games that's when all the killstreaks & all that stuff came in. UC2 was ND's first venture into online gaming maybe they weren't satisfied with UC2 & decided to go back to the drawing board. I think we should just view each game as a stand alone product really makes no sense to keep comparing them. 

 



the netcode was better in UC2, its a lot worse in UC3 imo.

 

the only difference i found between the modern warfare 2 and 1 was that when I went back to 1 it was harder to kill people, (the aiming required more from the player which is a good thing imo)

The thing about the killstreaks and all the other stuff is that it is not part of the core mechanics of the gameplay - Moving, shooting etc., yes it effects how the game plays but they were just added to what was already there - All the COD's since COD4 have the same foundations - COD4 is at their foundations.

The games are sequels, it would be madness to start from scratch every time.

 

Look at UC2 single player - it build  UC1's mechanics - the movement and climbing is the same, the shooting is the same design(though more refined), and new grenade mechanics were added, but really both game play the same. UC3 single player does not play the same as it has different core mechanics.

I have no doubt that if the same exact team(a better team) was working on UC2 single player was working on UC3 single player then it would have built on UC2.

They had a good thing going after UC2 MP but obviously UC3 MP had to use the gameplay mechanics from UC3 single player, and therein lies the problem.

 

They went back to the drawing board (scraping what was already near perfected) and created new mechanics what much worse than what was in UC2.

 

I just hope they get it right with UC4,im not too optimistic when I see Justin Richmond as game director (same team as UC3) but hopefully they will have learned something.


Doesn't UC2, UC3 & TLOU pretty much use the same net code? Smiley Indifferent 

 

But it's simply not fair to compare an FPS  to a TPS cover based shooter. The formula for COD has remained unchanged for the most part because there's only so little they can change pertaining to the actual gameplay unlike say Uncharted or Gears. 

 

Yes they changed alot of things from UC2 > 3 but IMO the positives outweigh the negative. Sometimes I feel like nostalgia clouts alot of peoples perception on UC3.  It has all the core mechanics of UC2.

 

Default movement speed is a bit faster in UC3 SP but I think UC3 is closer to UC2 in gameplay mechanics unlike UC1 > UC2. Except for aiming mechanics & slightly faster gameplay is there really that much of a difference between UC2 & UC3?

 

Well i'm glad they went back to the drawing board because UC3 MP > UC2 MP. 

 




 

 

Yes, there is a big difference between the two, UC2 is head, shoulders and waist above UC3 in terms of gameplay and mechanics - deathmatch, plunder, TO (all objective modes) all play much better in UC2, especially plunder (its pales in comparison with UC2 back in the day). The core mechanics are SIMILAR to UC2's, but they are just not on the same level as UC2's.
Gears (TPS) like COD built on the original unlike UC3 which designed the core mechanics from the ground up again (and only reached waist height on UC2 mechanics).

if you wouldnt mind listing the positives, please do, id like to argue them since imo they are only a handful compared to the negatives and the positives are only minor things for the most part.

When the default movement, Climbing, Jumping, Cover, Shooting, Physics and visuals (basically the most important and core of the gameplay) are all worse, the few positives dont have much sway. if treasures/throphies, stat hats, character weapons, legacy, Stars, tournament prizes etc. are why people like UC3 more then i cant believe it (3 team and free for all I agree add something).

imo UC2 was/is faster paced compared to UC3, again thats in relation to movemet climbing and shooting, you had to be completely aware of everything going on around you.
UC3's pace was artificially sped up after the summer beta - the beta play noticeably slower than UC2 but that was ok because of the way the game was designed (mechanics), it slower pace suited the game.
They overclocked the pacing (mainly due to power weapon kickbacks and the sprint change) and now it just doesnt flow fluidly like it did in the beta or like UC2 did - This fast paced (overclocked) gameplay is what destroys the gameplay for me - if it had been left like it was in the beta then it would have been much better.

Do you like the UC3 single player more than UC2's?


Like i said in the OP - I wouldnt mind all this extra stuff UC3 has if it was built on UC2's foundation - why didnt they just use UC2 as a base of mechanics and add all that stuff to it ??

 

Id be happy with 6v6 as it would work well with the good maps we already have it wouldnt require more complicated/larger map design than some of the maps we already have.

Here are a few maps that feel dont play well in UC3 deathmatch - Village, Temple, Caves, Desert Village, Syria, London Underground, Chateau, Dry docks, Graveyard, Oasis, London Streets, City of brass - some are not as bad as others - Maybe some could be kept for modes like TO, 3-team(Hopefully it will be 4-team instead) and free For All.


You're confusing me. The comment I was replying to from you, you were talking about 'Single Player' mechanics anyways. 

Plunder was great in UC2 when it worked & people weren't glitching. Plunder in UC3 is just as good & TO in UC2 was a joke lets not let that nostalgic clout influence your opinion. TDM was better tho no stupid power plays & Kickbacks. And yes ND rebuilt the MP portion from ground up, to achieve the vision they wanted for the game similar to what GG did from KZ2 > 3. We don't know what they'll do for UC4 so you can stop pointing it out lol, & enough with the COD comparisons it's an FPS the formula has been stagnant since the 90's.

 

Climbing - is subjective because UC2 climbing wasn't that good either.

Jumping - Meh I prefer how it works in UC3.

Cover - Better in UC2 

Shooting - Better in UC2 

Visuals - Had to be downgraded in UC3 for obvious reasons tho.

 

And I like the faster gameplay, I love how over the top the gameplay is, I like the inclusion of sprint. Yeh the beta played better wouldn't say it was slower paced than UC2 though. Do you like the TLOU MP then? 

 

And no I'm not really fond of UC3 Single Player story wise but when it comes to the action & set pieces I would put it over UC2.

 

Because maybe they didn't like UC2 MP? lol haha

I really don't know maybe they just wanted to start over? I mean it was their second MP outing.

 

I want 8 vs 8 it seems just perfect so many games I find myself wandering around hoping to spot someone.

But if they plan to reuse legacy maps then 6 vs 6 is fine as well. 

 

Temple, Cave, City of Brass (sucks in every mode but elimination) Lost City, Syria, Dry Docks & Grave Yard are indeed horrible TDM maps.

 I'm probably alone on this but ever since the blindfire nerf I actually enjoy TDM on Oasis, London Underground, Desert Village & Chateau Smiley Sad ... lol 

 

I think Museum is a horrible TDM Map along with Sanctuary. 

 

Meh get rid of 3TDM & put in a mercany mode. 

 

Btw let me just say UC2 MP was amazing but I think you give UC3 alot of unwarranted 'flack' it might just be the most succesful & consistent PS3 MP game & that's because:

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's darn good > fun > addictive > aged well.

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