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Naughty Paw
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Re: Uncharted 4: Realizing Potential

[ Edited ]
May 10, 2013

canadian94eh wrote:

ID-69 wrote:

Black_MiD wrote:

Matt

I hide during Double Damage, but I don't consider myself a tryhard; it's just the logical thing to do, I think. I mean, why would I purposely put myself at a disadvantage when I know I'd better hide? As much as I don't want to ruin anyone's fun, I surely don't want to ruin my own, either...

 


No, you are in denial. Only tryhards would hide during DD. It's pathetic.


i don't believe hiding in double damage makes you a tryhard, i believe it's a terrible idea to reward the losing team, it's illogical, the basic rules of TDM is to have more kills than deaths as a team, if you know you will greatly cost your team, hiding is a good choice (it's not camping if you're not trying for kills).... boosting KDR or WLR? not really, people can play casually and still want to the win (not that they'd be too upset that they lost) but the team that is preforming better should be the team that wins, do you not agree? or are you going to use the "you're a tryhard in denial" card on me too? i don't hide in Double Damage but it seems to be your only rebuttal...

 

one of the reasons why i prefer to play objective


You really want to argue with me about this, don't you Canadian? Was I not understood when I said I'm done with the subject?

 

If you insist so hard, let's make few things clear. If we were to argue about tryhardism, one must define the word "try-hard". To me the word "try-hard" stands for a person who tries so hard to be good they end up losing sight of just having fun. I picked that definition from urban dictionary btw.

 

My problem with people who hide their **bleep** during DD is that some of them really are tryhards. They play in a party of 5, and undoubtedly wins just about every match. I've seen those people hiding like **bleep** during DD even though their victory is inevitable because they are a lot stronger team and could easily get kills even during DD. 

 

But then there are people like Black_MiD who don't fall in the above-mentioned category. I get it that for people like him it's necessary to hide during DD to ensure victory. It's smart and logical thing to do. But I find that hiding is a cheap tryhard tactic for any as experienced player as me. 

 

This community is like a broken phone. Say something and they'll be twisting your words. Nobody said anything about playing foolishly when DD activates. When DD happens, I usually activate my kickback ( T-Bolt, Quick Boom ) and definitely do not run in the middle of the map. If I don't have a KB ready, I gotta rely on my 1v1 and ninja skills. You can play smart and not hide your **bleep**. 

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: Uncharted 4: Realizing Potential

May 10, 2013
Since we're around on the part where we're already being very subjective about which is which, let's stop.

Obviously we all have different opinions on what is a respectable/honorable thing to do and what is a tryhard thing to do.

Opinion fights don't end since SOMEONE has to be the guy who either forces the other to think this way or the guy who knows an argument is going nowhere.

Anyway... Shut up about hiding in DD. you want to hide? Fine. You want to be out there? Also fine. Just stop being huge **bleep** about it yo.
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Re: Uncharted 4: Realizing Potential

[ Edited ]
May 10, 2013

GMRcris wrote:

 

*snip*


You're misinterpreting what I said. I brought up these other games as examples of successful mutiplayers, not for direct comparisons.

 

With that in mind, Uncharted as a series is every bit as capable of taking off to reach similar success. I do not believe a game must revolutionize gaming paradigms to become the next big thing. Simply crafting a balanced, feature-rich experience with committed support is enough.

 

People buy CoD for multiplayer primarily due to the fact that it's promoted, marketed, and developed with the mindset that people will buy it for that very reason. No one purchased any CoD prior to MW because of the online, Infinity Ward changed that by deciding to go all out and devote serious resources to constructing the multiplayer. Naughty Dog simply needs to do the same.

 

Install base vs competitive success is all relative in scale. UC3's competitive success measured against its install base is very impressive, and it can grow exponentially given the right circumstances.

 

All I'm saying in the end is that UC4 is Sony's and Naughty Dog's best (and perhaps only) chance to make Uncharted a major multiplayer presence. The top MP games all have something in common: A) they had communities who aspired for more and B) the powers that be took action.

 

Remember back during a pre-release interview when ND said they wanted to "compete with the big boys" in the online space? It's time for them do everything possible to make that a reality this time around.

 


GMRcris wrote:

I just don't see Uncharted doing anything of this sort. I mean the franchise was basically built upon many other games elements and refined. Nothing really revolutionary or stand out about it. (that being said it has refined other games elements perfectly, well if were not counting the lackluster attempt at imitating the emblem editor and killstreaks from CoD)

 

Honestly though we should focus on the trickle down effect. If Uncharted 4 is made with the competitive mind set off the bat, ND tries to make it as balance as possible(because honestly nothing is going to be perfectly balanced), ranging from better map design, better gunplay balances, better custimization it will show the love and careful thought ND put into it's design and people will notice. I mean really get the meta game down point. The core gameplay gets down, the core fanbase will enjoy it and say a lot of positive things about it, they will tell their friends and try to get them to play, word of mouth will spread about the game, etc..The facebook(fication) effect if you will. (if that's even a word) Honestly if the game explodeds or takes off really isn't in anyones hands(not the community or the developers), there is no real way of knowing what the next break out game will be, Infinity Ward probably didn't know, Bungie didn't know, Riot games, etc...But what is know is these developers put a lot of time and effort into making their MP and refining it and it shows. This is ulimtately what really matters.


Uncharted has not done any one thing incredibly revolutionary sure, but it's ended up being a more-than-the-sum-of-its-parts type of experience. And even though the gameplay may resemble other titles, I firmly believe it's unique enough as a whole compared to the other top shooters. The multiplayer landscape of today could really use something that isn't another FPS.  Naughty Dog can further capitalize on that (and more) in the next title, hopefully along with some noteworthy innovations to boot. And let's not forget the next-gen factor which could be a major driving force behind all of this.

 

Of course no one can predict the future, anything can happen. I just don't see anything preventing Uncharted from becoming huge if it's handled correctly. 


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Re: Uncharted 4: Realizing Potential

May 10, 2013
@Triple Would this affect SP? I mean, I *kinda* buy UC for SP and I don't feel like I want this to get CoDified (ie singleplayer becomes a throwaway thing).
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Re: Uncharted 4: Realizing Potential

May 10, 2013

Great post @trip, the problem whith this whole thing is, the potential was there but ND/SONY screwed it biiig time by only listening to themself.

 

And thats the problem with Sony in general, looses 5 year in a row shows it all.

Todays MP gaming is 90% FPS, only really really stupid dickheads thought, that CODsation a TPS and their other MP games(KZ or Socom) would bring sales like a COD.

 

Sony fault if they only listening to marketing managers instead of the people which play the game.

They know what they love&hate about the playing game and a good company should build on this that it can grow&get wealthy.

 

After the huge success of U2 they had the chance to build something huge, but failed miserably with U3.

The really hardcore tryhard are ND&SONY.

 

Doesnt fit in Uncharteds MP? They really dont know how stupid they look.

 

The future of Uncharted playerbase will rise or fall with the (non)implementation of a Mercenary playlist.

I know you representing the competitive side of gaming, but let us not forget that this will only rise if you get enough random people together which will fall in love with a game and its mechanics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

U3´s COD syndrom fixlist: Nerf Gmal damage&scope INSTEAD OF RECOIL, Remove all ROF & Quickboom, Remove grenade throwback and replace it with a Slot 2 booster, Move Bargain to Slot 1, Nerf the enterly OP hipfire, INSTEAD OF DESTROYNG UNCHACHARTEDS FLUIDITY!
Nerf the sprint to 2sec/recovery to 5sec, Nerf T-Bolt KB to 12 medals,
NO stopping power effect while ADS, make FF usefull again (pain wobble is ENOUGH!), FIX delay on grenade throw, FIX shooting delay while hanging, FIX the cover system, its inferiour than in U2, FIX the Pull-down camera(U2>U3), FIX map rotation, FIX the reticles on ALL weapons( U2>U3), FIX overall weapon handling(U2>U3), FIX U3 lame COD corridor/hotspot map design(U2>U3), Add an only-party playlist for partys above 2 players OR Change U2 back to the original 1.04 setting.
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Re: Uncharted 4: Realizing Potential

May 10, 2013

Flawless83 wrote:

Great post @trip, the problem whith this whole thing is, the potential was there but ND/SONY screwed it biiig time by only listening to themself.

 

And thats the problem with Sony in general, looses 5 year in a row shows it all.

Todays MP gaming is 90% FPS, only really really stupid dickheads thought, that CODsation a TPS and their other MP games(KZ or Socom) would bring sales like a COD.

 

Sony fault if they only listening to marketing managers instead of the people which play the game.

They know what they love&hate about the playing game and a good company should build on this that it can grow&get wealthy.

 

After the huge success of U2 they had the chance to build something huge, but failed miserably with U3.

The really hardcore tryhard are ND&SONY.

 

Doesnt fit in Uncharteds MP? They really dont know how stupid they look.

 

The future of Uncharted playerbase will rise or fall with the (non)implementation of a Mercenary playlist.

I know you representing the competitive side of gaming, but let us not forget that this will only rise if you get enough random people together which will fall in love with a game and its mechanics.

 

 

 


I have to agree with Flawless here. Sony/ND thought that CoDifying their TPS *ACTION/ADVENTURE* game would match with CoD's *SHOOTER-CENTRIC* game.

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Re: Uncharted 4: Realizing Potential

May 10, 2013

"People who hide during double damage are wusses, they should play honorably by running around the map and instantly dying so they can help the other team get more kills"

- Dummies

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Re: Uncharted 4: Realizing Potential

May 10, 2013

So the way you view fun is the same as theirs? See here is how you define a **bleep** - a **bleep** is a forumer who is known as "Fender Bender" on the Naughty Dog Forums..i read that in a webster version of a dictionary. One can find it fun to actually be a "try-hard" you are just not good at the game so you would not know. You are an idiot who argues that Uncharted's Competitive Community are just a bunch of losers. And being honest, I bet i have more fun playing than you do anyday. Actually I seem to have so much fun that many other people find it fun to watch me play, but i hide during double damage? But i forgot apparently to you opinions are facts right? Look up idiot in any dictionary, don't be surprised if you find a picture of your father.

 

-BP 

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Re: Uncharted 4: Realizing Potential

May 10, 2013

BabyPowder123 wrote:

So the way you view fun is the same as theirs? See here is how you define a **bleep** - a **bleep** is a forumer who is known as "Fender Bender" on the Naughty Dog Forums..i read that in a webster version of a dictionary. One can find it fun to actually be a "try-hard" you are just not good at the game so you would not know. You are an idiot who argues that Uncharted's Competitive Community are just a bunch of losers. And being honest, I bet i have more fun playing than you do anyday. Actually I seem to have so much fun that many other people find it fun to watch me play, but i hide during double damage? But i forgot apparently to you opinions are facts right? Look up idiot in any dictionary, don't be surprised if you find a picture of your father.

 

-BP 


Whoa, take it easy. You make yourself look like a tool.

If you have something to say to me, please send me PM and I'll have a good chuckle. 

Now keep it on-topic and be nice!

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Re: Uncharted 4: Realizing Potential

May 10, 2013

tripleWRECK wrote:

GMRcris wrote:

 

*snip*


You're misinterpreting what I said. I brought up these other games as examples of successful mutiplayers, not for direct comparisons.

 

With that in mind, Uncharted as a series is every bit as capable of taking off to reach similar success. I do not believe a game must revolutionize gaming paradigms to become the next big thing. Simply crafting a balanced, feature-rich experience with committed support is enough.

 

People buy CoD for multiplayer primarily due to the fact that it's promoted, marketed, and developed with the mindset that people will buy it for that very reason. No one purchased any CoD prior to MW because of the online, Infinity Ward changed that by deciding to go all out and devote serious resources to constructing the multiplayer. Naughty Dog simply needs to do the same.

 

Install base vs competitive success is all relative in scale. UC3's competitive success measured against its install base is very impressive, and it can grow exponentially given the right circumstances.

 

All I'm saying in the end is that UC4 is Sony's and Naughty Dog's best (and perhaps only) chance to make Uncharted a major multiplayer presence. The top MP games all have something in common: A) they had communities who aspired for more and B) the powers that be took action.

 

Remember back during a pre-release interview when ND said they wanted to "compete with the big boys" in the online space? It's time for them do everything possible to make that a reality this time around.

 


GMRcris wrote:

I just don't see Uncharted doing anything of this sort. I mean the franchise was basically built upon many other games elements and refined. Nothing really revolutionary or stand out about it. (that being said it has refined other games elements perfectly, well if were not counting the lackluster attempt at imitating the emblem editor and killstreaks from CoD)

 

Honestly though we should focus on the trickle down effect. If Uncharted 4 is made with the competitive mind set off the bat, ND tries to make it as balance as possible(because honestly nothing is going to be perfectly balanced), ranging from better map design, better gunplay balances, better custimization it will show the love and careful thought ND put into it's design and people will notice. I mean really get the meta game down point. The core gameplay gets down, the core fanbase will enjoy it and say a lot of positive things about it, they will tell their friends and try to get them to play, word of mouth will spread about the game, etc..The facebook(fication) effect if you will. (if that's even a word) Honestly if the game explodeds or takes off really isn't in anyones hands(not the community or the developers), there is no real way of knowing what the next break out game will be, Infinity Ward probably didn't know, Bungie didn't know, Riot games, etc...But what is know is these developers put a lot of time and effort into making their MP and refining it and it shows. This is ulimtately what really matters.


Uncharted has not done any one thing incredibly revolutionary sure, but it's ended up being a more-than-the-sum-of-its-parts type of experience. And even though the gameplay may resemble other titles, I firmly believe it's unique enough as a whole compared to the other top shooters. The multiplayer landscape of today could really use something that isn't another FPS.  Naughty Dog can further capitalize on that (and more) in the next title, hopefully along with some noteworthy innovations to boot. And let's not forget the next-gen factor which could be a major driving force behind all of this.

 

Of course no one can predict the future, anything can happen. I just don't see anything preventing Uncharted from becoming huge if it's handled correctly. 


No I understand if you read what I said all I stated was you simply understand the sheer scale of these examples, no where did I say "direct comparisons". I know the purprose of an example but you also must see the big gaping scale distance between them, and in that case they really aren't fair examples. The sheer numbers of CoD MP vs. Uncharted is so outlandish, it's hard not to point out. A much better example would be Gears since it is a successful MP game and while it has a larger population of people playing online MP than Uncharted, it's not so outlandish in scale that one can't overlook that.

 

 

Well this is where we differ in opinion. Looking at the history of gaming in general, anytime someone achieves massive and critical level of sucess it's usually because it has done something revolutionary in gaming. Dating all the way back to when Mario single handedly saved gaming from the brink during the early 1980s, Zelda laid the foundation for action adventure games to come, etc...And to think only over a shy bit over 10 years ago Halo laid down the FPS standard on consoles, follow that up with it basically laying down the pavement for onling gaming with Halo 2, fast foward just a bit and in 2007 CoD4 MW re-inveted the standard for online FPS and somewhere between that RE4 pretty much set down the template for 3rd person shooters that Gears and Uncharted would follow suite. So you must forgive me when I say if you going to reach that "certain level" of sucess that some of these games have, your gonna have to shake it up. Because the reality is while these are the "big" examples there are plenty of games out there that have done what these games have done, if not better. But the key difference is these were the first games to do it and thus revolutionize gaming.

 

Sure now people buy it for the MP and obviously activision knows how to market that now. But look back at some old trailers and such for CoD4 MW, the first major break out CoD for them. Because lets be honest prior to Modern Warfare, CoD was living in the shadow of Medal of Honor,(when WWII shooters were as common as modern shooters are now) they suddenly decided to make it a modern shooter, and well the rest is history. Honestly the reason CoD 4 MW MP took off was it was different from the typical WWII shooter, and it wasn't Halo(sci-fi shooter), which is the juggernaut of FPS gaming at the time. It was modern, it allowed for more custimization than most other online shooters at the time, killstreaks, modifying guns, etc...You certainly couldn't do these things in Halo. Of course word of mouth spread and soon the MP became the talk of the gaming community. While marketing played it's part, I would argue what the game did at the time might have had a greater impact on it's sucess than marketing.

 

One thing to also note about competitive, it's pretty interesting that ALOT of competitive CoD players came from Halo competitive. I mean it is multiplatform but the 360 has kind of been accepted as the primary home for CoD. A lot of the competitive CoD players often times mention that their primary online shooter before CoD was Halo, which the reasons for that are pretty obvious. So I mean it's safe to assume given the success of Halo prior to CoD, once Modern Warfare happened it did most likely take away a decent chunk of that Halo MP pie, which is by no means a bad thing seeing as how that pie was fairly large. I guess if where talking scale the competitive Uncharted community vs. the general Uncharted population is fairly decent in scope in retrospect. But keep in mind were talking about a small pond here. Which has to be noted when giving examples to the bigger ponds. (CoD, LoL, etc...)

 

Honestly I would say Killzone and at one point in time Resistence had a bigger MP presence felt than Uncharted. It definitely hurt the MP appearence of Uncharted the first one in the series did not include MP. I mean Killzone has always been presented by Sony as their "FPS killer app" for the platform. Much like Halo was for the 360. Honestly the top MP games had more than those two things you mention liked... Usually handled by developers who have had a decent running experiene with MP, CoD had MP prior to to Modern Warfare to some surprised lol, Halo CE had MP, even though it was LAN it account for something, CS was a mod built of Half-Life that turned into a full fledge game and Vale is no stranger to MP experiences, and League of Legends is built off of a mod of a game that a heavily competitive online MP game, Warcraft III. Honestly I am not really sure the communites behind these games had any say or power early on, it was really more like a snowball effect really. Games exploded, the communities along with them, and considering the scope of the snowball by the time it was downhill, there were enough people there to power and authority to be established by default via sheer numbers.

 

Yeah I remember when ND said that, I actually chuckled at it though. I doubt the Uncharted community is even half the size of the Gears community,(which I am not even sure would be considered a big boy or whatever) none the less major mutiplatform games like CoD or BF, or the "big boys".

 

There are a lot of games that wind up being greater than the sum of it's parts, these a great games but as I said a lot of times in this aggressively evolving interesting, being **bleep** good only garners you so much praise and attention and I certainly don't think it grants that level of critical mass success without the game actually being revolutionary as I mentioned above. I do agree though that we do need something out there in this very oversaturared FPS market, honestly though I wonder if what we need is a 3rd person shooter or something else entirely. I remember a time when everyone was trying to plop out Mario clones left and right, and eventually that genre chilled out to say the least, maybe the same will happen to shooters, who knows.

 

No one can predict the future, I sure as hell didn't expect CoD to take off, proabably since MoH was viewed by most as better at the time. They took a risk and it paid off. So there is one unexpected example. At the same time I was around to see the snowball effect of it since I remember first playing and with some friends, and then maybe a few months later everyone was talking about it, etc...One example I did predict that off was Halo. I knew after playing Halo CE Bungie created something special, a new Star Wars for this generation if you will and Bungie barely had to much of anything after Combat Evolved to really push that series over the top, which they did by adding online to Halo 2.

 

Uncharted to me is special, it has great potential. Easily when of the best IPs on the playstation platform. At the same time I have always notice from the general massed, Uncharted has always been viewed as this epic cinematic single player experience. It's going to take a hell of a lot of work to rework that image, even with a new box. This is coming from someone who not only enjoys the SP but the MP aspect as well. This sort of mentality is no commonly shared. I remember first playing Uncharted 2 MP during the beta and no lifing it religiously. I thought it was the greatest thing ever. The thing is though none of my friends seemed to care. I let them played, I played that silly little beta constantly around them. They didn't seem to have that level of passion or care I did. They would played for a bit, get amused and then right back to Halo, CoD, or even Resistence. Some of these friends were hardcore gamer that did go to Kotaku every day and some of these were more casual and just played ot play with friends. Yet all of them except for me seemed to have a strong attraction to Uncharted 2 MP. This is a small ecosystem of course but it is something I noticed. Maybe it just doesn't click to the vasty majority like it does for me, idk.

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