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Apr 18 2013
By: plamjp2012 First Son 2 posts
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Worst multiplayer experience of all time

17 replies 526 views Edited Apr 18, 2013

If you want to know why people give up multiplayer, just read:

1. The game doesn't have any mechanism to separate experience players from those newbies. A while ago there is becoz only hardcore players will buy dlc packs so dlc toggle on means you will find players with certain level of skills.

2. Now after selling the game of the year edition, more and more causal players joined in and such hidden mechanism broke up.

3. Very often frequent players will partnered with new comers, who don't know the rules, camp there, running for nothing and get killed.

4. Frequent players get angried as no help received from teammates, so they give up the game

5. New comers also not happy becoz they always get killed, but it doesn't matter they only play for an hour a month

It's ok to get more players to play the game, but you should think about what consequences you will make for your changes.

Non-sense VS Non-sense. Expert VS Expert. It should be the rule to retain players.

Of course maybe you don't want that as the new game Last of Us is coming.

Sorry for my English.

 

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Keyblade Wielder
Registered: 01/04/2012
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Re: Worst multiplayer experience of all time

Apr 18, 2013

plamjp2012 wrote:

If you want to know why people give up multiplayer, just read:

1. The game doesn't have any mechanism to separate experience players from those newbies. A while ago there is becoz only hardcore players will buy dlc packs so dlc toggle on means you will find players with certain level of skills.

2. Now after selling the game of the year edition, more and more causal players joined in and such hidden mechanism broke up.

3. Very often frequent players will partnered with new comers, who don't know the rules, camp there, running for nothing and get killed.

4. Frequent players get angried as no help received from teammates, so they give up the game

5. New comers also not happy becoz they always get killed, but it doesn't matter they only play for an hour a month

It's ok to get more players to play the game, but you should think about what consequences you will make for your changes.

Non-sense VS Non-sense. Expert VS Expert. It should be the rule to retain players.

Of course maybe you don't want that as the new game Last of Us is coming.

Sorry for my English.

 


It's okay, your English. English also isn't my main language. :smileyvery-happy:

 

Anyway, they did try to implement that via Level-based matchmaking, which we actually have now. It's unbelievable, I know. Level-based matchmaking, lol.

 

Anyway, we did have HC mode, which *kinda* helped bridge the level gap because higher-levels did not have access to their high-level mods, although they did have access to their high-level guns. But that got removed and replaced by Classic mode, where long-time players with leveled-up boosters can take out new players with their bronze boosters.

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Worst multiplayer experience of all time

Apr 18, 2013

People have abused the matchmaking for as long as the DLC has been out. Before the DLC switch was introduced, people would actually uninstall the DLC in order to play against noobs so that they could get a better KDR. A single player in the party that didn't have the DLC was enough to be put in the non-DLC matchmaking pool, so many parties of good players abused that frequently. The DLC toggle didn't really change much.

 

It must also be said that there are many experienced players out there that just aren't good at the game. The major issue is that the team balancing is still so ridiculously bad that most teams end up very unbalanced. You can often tell right away by looking at someone's stats if they're going to be useful for the team or not, but the team balancing algorithm only seems to focus on the level of the players. Large parties of good players ruin the game for everyone else, but I don't see Naughty Dog doing anything about that either.

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: Worst multiplayer experience of all time

Apr 18, 2013

Cherry_Ronde wrote:

People have abused the matchmaking for as long as the DLC has been out.


I'm guilty for level-based matchmaking. I'm supposed to be level 60 legacy 4.

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Wastelander
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Re: Worst multiplayer experience of all time

Apr 18, 2013

@plamjp2012..

 

You make good points but another set of factors are the game mechanics.

 

I think a well-intentioned ND tried to respond to the community with tweaks delivered through a myriad of patches since the initial release.  Many of these were good and well received but probably many more just served to alienate groups within the community – actually, pretty much all groups since everyone has their own “pet” and over the 17 patches, virtually nothing has remained untouched.  This I believe has created an atmosphere where changes are expected and disappointment follows since you can never please everyone and ND is perceived as “abandoning” the community - particularly, as they approach their next release and they simply haven't the development resources to respond as effectively as they once did.

 

Just as ND admitted they made a mistake in announcing the UC3 release date so early, I think their future games and development will be informed by the MP experience with UC3.  Despite comments often seen in the forums, ND is not stupid…and although they might sometimes appear to be a faceless, uncaring company (which in fairness, exists to make money..don’t forget), I believe those frequently harsh comments will definitely have an impact and the result is very likely to surprise us.

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Wastelander
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Re: Worst multiplayer experience of all time

[ Edited ]
Jun 4, 2013

Since StuntDouble brought up level-based matchmaking, I’ll chime in again on the topic.

 

I think level-based is fundamentally flawed for balanced matchmaking and have said so in another post.  In a nutshell, the two main reasons:

 

  • Experience/skill gained in coop does not necessarily translate to competitive.  A great cooperative player may be of high rank but not be nearly as good at competitive gameplay
  • New/alternative accounts – consider a lower ranked player (Rank 50, no legacy) with a KDR of 2 or higher.  For the purposes of matchmaking, should they really be ranked lower than a Rank 75 5th legacy with a KDR below 1?

I offered up KDR as an alternative but that was unpopular with many.  I still think KDR is better than level-based and will continue to hold that opinion until something better is proposed.  In the end, I hope ND implements a different (or at least modified) matchmaking algorithm for future games.

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: Worst multiplayer experience of all time

Apr 18, 2013

CaptainProduce67 wrote:

Since StuntDouble brought up level-based matchmaking, I’ll chime in again on the topic.

 

I think level-based is fundamentally flawed for balanced matchmaking and have said so in another post.  In a nutshell, the two main reasons:

 

  • Experience/skill gained in coop does not necessarily translate to competitive.  A great cooperative player may be of high rank but not nearly as good at competitive gameplay
  • New/alternative accounts – consider a lower ranked player (Rank 50, no legacy) with a KDR of 2 or higher.  For the purposes of matchmaking, should they really be ranked lower than a Rank 75 5th legacy with a KDR below 1?

I offered up KDR as an alternative but that was unpopular with many.  I still think KDR is better than level-based and will continue to hold that opinion until something better is proposed.  In the end, I hope ND implements a different (or at least modified) matchmaking algorithm for future games.


At least co-op has a way of actually telling you if the guy's pretty good or not. How many matches has he completed?

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Worst multiplayer experience of all time

[ Edited ]
Apr 18, 2013

I 'recon a competitive match making system like Ratchet and clank FFA would work best, acting as a kind of expansion on the tournament system. basically kills, deaths, wins losses are averaged out by adding or removing from a 'skill score' type thing. each match everything you do will affect the 'skill points' earned at the end and these will be added or taken from your total. there would be different catagories at set intervals of points which would serve to seperate players into 'bands' based on skill (similar to the exsisting tournament bands) rather than level meaning low skilled players would never have to face the hardcore player base as the band difference would be large enough that the two pools would never mix. scince score dynamically goes up or down after every match, a fluke match would barely affect the score as if the player proceeded to score well next match his score would return to similar to where it was previously.
did I explain that well? I feel like I overcomplicated it...

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Worst multiplayer experience of all time

Apr 18, 2013

CaptainProduce67 wrote:

@plamjp2012..

 

You make good points but another set of factors are the game mechanics.

 

I think a well-intentioned ND tried to respond to the community with tweaks delivered through a myriad of patches since the initial release.  Many of these were good and well received but probably many more just served to alienate groups within the community – actually, pretty much all groups since everyone has their own “pet” and over the 17 patches, virtually nothing has remained untouched.  This I believe has created an atmosphere where changes are expected and disappointment follows since you can never please everyone and ND is perceived as “abandoning” the community - particularly, as they approach their next release and they simply haven't the development resources to respond as effectively as they once did.

 

Just as ND admitted they made a mistake in announcing the UC3 release date so early, I think their future games and development will be informed by the MP experience with UC3.  Despite comments often seen in the forums, ND is not stupid…and although they might sometimes appear to be a faceless, uncaring company (which in fairness, exists to make money..don’t forget), I believe those frequently harsh comments will definitely have an impact and the result is very likely to surprise us.


Good post but I feel like you are giving ND a pat on the back. I will admit the community is also at fault for the current state of the game but as a company ND clearly lost their way with UC3 &made criminal mishaps before the game was even released also they should know what's best for their game instead they allowed the minority to further influence silly decisions which simply lead to the current tense relationship between the community & ND.

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Last Guardian
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Re: Worst multiplayer experience of all time

Apr 18, 2013
If you wanna have any chance of having decent players in your team, either play in a party or turn DLC on.
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